Divining the right role, capabilities, structure, and Regimental System for Canada's Army Reserves

[McG]

Speaking of roles, here's something on the latest attempt to reintroduce the 'hook and ladder' brigades to the reserve world. I'll have to watch 'Outbreak' again to remind myself how to cordon off an infected city...

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=1353971

Didn't you already share this? http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/24381/post-818356.html#msg818356  ;D

 

[George Wallace]

>Realistically remembering my time, every Sqn I have been in, in the RCD, has numbered just over 100 pers, and was commanded by a Major

I realize by tradition (and by template) sub-units are commanded by Majors in our military culture, but I question the necessity for reserve sub-unit-sized elements.  Everything in the essential unit administration tool kit for a reserve officer is learned (formal training) or accumulated (experience) by the time captain-qualifying courses are complete, unless the officer hasn't been carrying much in the way of regimental duties.  While there may surely be exceptions of which I am unaware, the higher level post-captain courses (ACT/MCSC to my last knowledge) are almost, if not entirely, focused on operational command/staff matters at the sub-unit/unit level (ACT) and then the unit/higher HQ level (MCSC).  If there are not a lot of places on reserve establishments to hold majors, and fewer to hold LCols, then not very many will be held; unless the higher adults are pleased to play patronage games, not very many should be undeserving or advanced on the basis of completing training and maintaining a pulse.

Are you proposing that the Reserves no longer match the CF structure of command?  That we have two seperate command structures for two identical organizations?

I find your "patronage games" comment out of line and offensive.  All officers, Reg and Res, must qualify for their promotions and appointments. 

 

[George Wallace]

As long as the argument keeps coming back to "just give us [the Reserves] more money but don't try to change our organization" it's all a waste of time trying to identify more effective ways to employ the available resources.

It was stated above, it takes "buy in" at the grass roots level.  For the Reserves to find more effective structures and approaches, the ideas will have to come from the Reserves to get the support they need.  Mourning lost companies in towns that no longer exist is not a recipe for future success.

Michael

I am in an organization that is being restructured and has been for the last two years.  We have limited space, wpns for only 1/4 of the troops, limited Troop Lift, no Comms equip, etc.  It is frustrating when we do our part successfully, and are held back by a signature for two to three years on the document at the bottom of a file basket on a Senior Officer's desk that should have been given to the Minister two years ago.  Yes, funding is an issue, and it isn't always as you have stated above.  We have had to stop/slow down at 75% of the mandated size as our resources in equipment, infrastructure, and Trained pers are maxed out.


Brad, this increase in size and organization, keeps the CO's rank at Major. 

 

[dapaterson]

Michael

I am in an organization that is being restructured and has been for the last two years.  We have limited space, wpns for only 1/4 of the troops, limited Troop Lift, no Comms equip, etc.  It is frustrating when we do our part successfully, and are held back by a signature for two to three years on the document at the bottom of a file basket on a Senior Officer's desk that should have been given to the Minister two years ago.  Yes, funding is an issue, and it isn't always as you have stated above.  We have had to stop/slow down at 75% of the mandated size as our resources in equipment, infrastructure, and Trained pers are maxed out.


Brad, this increase in size and organization, keeps the CO's rank at Major.

George:  Not wanting to get into a pissing match, but that particular doc was utterly incomplete when it made it to the CLS outside the chain of command.  The staff who handled the file then had to spend considerable time getting the necessary information - and got labelled the bad guy by (1) the unit CO, pissed that his end-run wasn't working fast enough and (2) the Area staff, pissed that approvals had been given without their involvement that directly affected them.  Doing it right (that is, through the chain of command) woud have taken longer initially, but would have lead to a complete file that could have been actionned.  Branch mafia have no command authority - something that some groups should be intelligent enough to understand (pun intended).

Doing things wrong slows down the process - which is what much of this thread is about.

 

[George Wallace]

Don't appologize for the pun.  I realize that there are serious problems there.  Fact is, there are a lot of people in high places not talking to each other which makes life difficult for the worker bees.  It is one thing to be directed to do something, be successful in doing it, and another to find that there are serious problems it being actioned at the top.

On point (1) it is their job to clarify these things, and an exercise in frustration in the process.  (2) have been a disappointment to say the least.  Will (3) be any better, or SSDP?

 

[daftandbarmy]

Didn't you already share this? http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/24381/post-818356.html#msg818356  ;D

Yes, but the mess tins made me do it twice. :nod:=

 

[TangoTwoBravo]

I'll tell you all something right from the coal face. It's where I live. Let's use SW Ontario as an example. Amalgamate units and you're going to lose a lot of people. Including Officers and Snr NCOs. Go ahead and use the axiom that those people weren't worth keeping anyway, which is bullshit, but go ahead. The loss would be bad enough if you took the guidon & badge from one and made them go under another. Then the CO & RSM would have control over say, 3 Sqns, but have to travel all over SW Ontario, three different locations, to show themselves to everyone. You're not talking young piss and vinegar types with families. You're talking old dog eared types that are retired and can afford the time and travel.

So the other option is to keep the units at home but form all the garrison into a single unit. Infantry, Armoured, Svc Btn all one unit. You'll lose even more pers and be no better off than when you stated except instead of having three 100 man units doing different roles, that you can draw on, you'll have one 150 man unit with everyone pissing on each other. Higher up will be jockying for position and the others will see it and follow suit. Unit loyalties will win out.

It'll take years to make a cohesive outfit from this type of mishmash. It ain't pretty and it doesn't fit your pretty little cookie cutter designs, but it's a big elephant in the room that you can't ignore. It also has the largest capability of sewering any plans for roling in units and making your newest Mo experiment work.

Reservists are a fickle bunch and you have to understand how to sell them on the plan, because they are not a bunch of morons without any other means of employment or fall back. Most do it because they like it, not because they need a job. frig with what they like and don't offer a better alternative, they'll vote with their feet.


Whatever is planned, there better be a lot of buy in, consideration, and consultation. Show up and tell them they are all part of the 51st Dog Sled Mushers, here's your new badge, and you've lost before you even start.

Make all the grandiose plans you wish, but if you don't include or get inclusion from, that young troop on the floor, you've simply lost the best asset you ever had.

But hey, what do I know. Just tossing out random thoughts.

Given that units are having a hard time generating successession plans I am not sure what the issue would be by having amalgamated RHQs for branches. An reserve Recce Regiment in Ontario would still keep people in the branch they are serving, and if capbadges are that big of an issue then the squadrons can keep them. The CO and RSM would not have to have a face to face O Group every Thursday night with all the Sqns. We have pretty good technology to help with that and a monthly trip on VIA 1 to one of the other garrison locations would keep them in contact, plus ranges/exercises. For the infantry units it would be even simply since we could form amalgamted battalions with units quite close to each other.

As an aside, when I was in the Reserves I often wondered what the utility of Thursday nights was. I did an exchange with a USMC Reserve Battalion that trained for one weekend a month and two weeks in the summer. There training was pretty good and also had lots of variety. Since you only had to come to the unit once a month (with a schedule a year in advance), people could travel from quite far to be in the unit. Anyhoo.

With the pressure of succession removed, a new officer could spend four or five years as a Troop Leader, four or five years as a BC and so on. The same could hold true for NCOs.

 

[dapaterson]

I think many on this thread (myself included) have been talking at cross purposes.  Massive change (whether Reg or Res) does require communictaion and information passage.  Too often people attempt to do things fast by fiat, and fail.

Change has to be understood at all levels.

Some of the disucssion here, meant at a theoretical level to come up with options and ideas is being interpreted as people saying "Let's do wholesale change tomorrow!" and countered with "You'll destroy everything" - and those proposing theoretical change toss back "You're a dinosaur."  Perhaps a lesson to all involved on listening, and trying to understand their position.

PLus, the added problems of written vice person-to-person communication - it can be too easy to misinterpret written words, lacking non-verbal cues (and sometimes we forget to add "lol" or )

 

[tango22a]

Sarge:

"would you mind crossing your feet?....we only have three nails!"  (lol)

tango22a

 

[tango22a]

Could one of you SMEs on PRes Reorg please explain to me WHY the PRes ALWAYS gets lumbered with the tasks that the RegF either doesn't WANT to do, WON'T do or CAN'T do... In other words " Give it to the PRes it's right up their alley". Of course we will have to re-org them so they can fit in the useless niche we want them to occupy. If we stomp them into a job they DON'T want maybe they will just disappear and "we can get back to REAL (RegF) soldiering"

tango22a

PS: Contrary to popular belief I don't consider myself to be a MARTYR, just a little bit put upon.

 

[TangoTwoBravo]

I don't see how the Armoured reserve regiments picking up convoy escort for deployed operations and close recce plus CRBN recce for domestic operations is a bad thing. They fit into the envelope of traditional tasks (the close recce bit is arguable I suppose) and there is nothing to say that those would be the only tasks that Reserve recce regiments would perform.

 

[tango22a]

T2B:

Not against picking up those jobs, but it will require RE-Equipping with a SUITABLE vehicle and RE-Training in its use. There seems to be this mis-begotten feeling that (as usual) the PRes can do the job with NO comms, NO vehicles, No wpns and above all NO support...e.g. NO MONEY,  "They've done all we asked on a shoe-string, let's see if we can make them dig a little deeper!"

tango22a

 

[tango22a]

To paraphrase Winston Churchill " Give us the equipment and WE will finish the job"


tango22a

 

[dapaterson]

Task assignment:  At branch gatherings recommendations for such things are decided, then passed on to the Army Commander.  Many of the more off-the-wall options have come from the mouths of Reservists, not the Reg Force.  But most of these things are recommended by branches - if the Armd Reserve is unhappy, talk to Spike.

The G-Wagon is adequate (if not ideal) for practicing convoy escort duties.  Practicing skills and drills is possible. In addition, there's no clear decision about a future CF platform for such tasks; the RG-31 in theatre was a UOR; no guarantees it will be kept or continued to be used.  Given that in another scenario we may well adopt another platform, unortunately much of the training wil be just-in-time prior to deployment.  That's the Reg F reality now as well - vehicles are made available 6-12 motnhs before deployment.

Comms gear is an Army-wide failing.  I don't have a solution (other than reducing the number of Jimmies involved in procurement of it to provide tech advice, but not final decision-making and control)  Attempts to acquire additional radios require competition with other nations with the same needs - and our buys are generally smaller - so we tend to be bumped to the end of the line.


Again:  There were funds available that were never used.  When the Army Reserve grew by about 19% they received nearly 25% more operating funds (baseline increase).  Capital funds were mostly unused because there was no plan.  There was no evil Reg F plotting.  Just a failure to plan.

 

[tango22a]

PRes:

Hypothetical Situation:

Gentlemen:
We( RegF )want you to give up your Combat Arms jobs and re-train in a role quite divorced from what you are used to be doing. If we need augmentation (?) we will re-train you in GD duties. Since we don't want to be bothered with re-training ourselves to perform these candy-a$$ tasks ("They're not REAL  soldiering") they're all yours, so make the best of it! Any Questions?


tango22a

 

[Michael OLeary]

PRes:

Hypothetical Situation:

Gentlemen:
We( RegF )want you to give up your Combat Arms jobs and re-train in a role quite divorced from what you are used to be doing. If we need augmentation (?) we will re-train you in GD duties. Since we don't want to be bothered with re-training ourselves to perform these candy-a$$ tasks ("They're not REAL  soldiering") they're all yours, so make the best of it! Any Questions?


tango22a

Well, perhaps if you get off your "woe is me the poor suffering reservist" horse, this could be a conversation instead of a pissing match.

Where are your real world suggestions for change in the modern environment, other than "throw money and let us do more of what we're doing."

 

[dapaterson]

The Armd Recce situation is entirely a product of the Armd Corps.  If any black hatters want to bitch and complain, look in a mirror, and go to the annual branch gabfest, and vent there. It's not the Army, it's not the Reg Force - it's the Armoured Corps doing things to itself.

Self inflicted situations get no sympathy from me.

 

[tango22a]

Michael:
I didn't intend it to become a pissing contest. But you must admit coming to PRes from RegF must have been a bit of a shock to you, not having all those little goodies available that RegF take for granted. I have been retired from the CF for over 20 years but sill maintain contact with my old unit and with other friends in other units I made over the years I was active and the feedback I get is "SIERRA SIERRA, DELTA DELTA"  Seems things haven't changed much over the years! I may be wrong but I can see a great need for improvement in both PRes and RegF attitudes towards each other.I am just looking back over my own experiences and don't see much change over the years I have been retired.

Cheers,

tango22a

 

[TangoTwoBravo]

PRes:

Hypothetical Situation:

Gentlemen:
We( RegF )want you to give up your Combat Arms jobs and re-train in a role quite divorced from what you are used to be doing. If we need augmentation (?) we will re-train you in GD duties. Since we don't want to be bothered with re-training ourselves to perform these candy-a$$ tasks ("They're not REAL  soldiering") they're all yours, so make the best of it! Any Questions?


tango22a

I don't see this in the current discussion. The convoy escort task is expeditionary and it is combat. It is also a fairly standard recce sqn/tp task, so it is not like you are being asked to abandon armoured recce (it is more of a focus for collective training than anything else). I wouldn't call the domestic operations tasks candy-ass either.

 

[dapaterson]

The Reg F is not the land of milk and honey that so many assume that it is.  A Reg F friend of me had a recent posting as a Battery Commander.  For his Reg F artillery battery, he had two LSVWs.  That's it.  No other vehicles.  No guns.  And that is increasingly the Reg F reality:  If you're slotted for high readiness training, six to twelve months in advance you'll get some of the vehicles and equipment you need to train.  Otherwise there is a small pool that's shared, that has milage limitations that make training and proficiency maintenance difficult.

You spend your time sending troops off on tasks, even though they're supposed to be recovering post-deployment.  Some are being stripped away from you to fill out deploying units.  Yet you are still responsible to maintain individual and collective skills, missing many junior leaders stripped for augmentation tasks, and lacking equipment.

It's not all gloom and doom in the Reg F, but there are definite challenges there as well - many which are probably familiar to the Reserves.