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Divining the right role, capabilities, structure, and Regimental System for Canada's Army Reserves

  • Thread starter Thread starter Yard Ape
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Colin P said:
I would love to see a couple of Leo C2's sent to some of the larger armoured units where young troopers can learn some basic skills like track changing, etc. The Svc Bat can use for training as well, swapping engine packs and such.
I know, the Leopard C2 is still around.  But it is going.  So, why would we send equipment to reserve units for those units to learn how to maintain systems which are no longer operationally employed?  We may as well waste time & money teaching M4 Sherman and Centurion maintenance.

 
MCG said:
I know, the Leopard C2 is still around.  But it is going.  So, why would we send equipment to reserve units for those units to learn how to maintain systems which are no longer operationally employed?  We may as well waste time & money teaching M4 Sherman and Centurion maintenance.

There are still AEVs around which require maintenance; a few old Leo C2s in the svc bn lines would permit some EME techs to develop some familiarity with the family (unless some black hat snuck in and made off with the vehicle...)

But some of this should be task-tailoring for Reserve units.  If you're close to a Reg F base (350 kms?) you can train on their kit and provide augmentation; if you're farther afield you'll train in other skillsets with different kit.  Every unit will be different.  Get over it.
 
dapaterson said:
And Commissionaires as well...

True, but this thread isn't about Commissionaires.

I was also impressed by the opinions voiced about the contribution these Reservists (and Commissionares) make to CFLRS.  In short, they provide the staff continuity and have greatly contributed to the positive changes in BMQ and basic officer training.
 
In Montreal there are still a bunch of C2s hanging around in the 202 yards... but, they've started to dispatch them to various museums & armouries - to become lawn ornaments.
 
Alright Gentlemen:

After reading some of the posts I have come to the conclusion that the majority of posters feel that the PRes is of dubious  use other than supply GD personnel to the RegF. If it's any consolation to you I can remember being told years ago that the ElginR were given the choice of either re-badging or dis-banding.Speaking for MYSELF only. I either would have transferred out, or pulled the pin and VRd. I must point out that I joined to be an Armoured soldier not an Engineer. I feel that a large number of RegF members would object strenuously if they were compulsorily retraded .It's a little different when you're the one getting screwed isn't it?

Maybe the answer is to reduce the PRes to nil strength and hope that large numbers will CT to RegF....Good Luck!

tango22a

Edited to add: It would sure help the manning problem!
 
Writer(s): Styne/Cahn


It seems to me I've heard that song before
It's from an old familiar score
I know it well, that melody

It's funny how a theme
Recalls a favorite dream
A dream that brought you so close to me

I know each word, because I've heard that song before
The lyrics said: "for evermore"
For evermore's a memory

Please have them play it again
And (Then) I'll remember just when
I heard that lovely song before
 
tango22a said:
I can remember being told years ago that the ElginR were given the choice of either re-badging or dis-banding.

I was in Chilliwack when the first of them arrived for training in the new trade. None of them were complaining too much. You are traying to make an argument based only on your personal axe to grind.

But yeah...the RegF doesnt know what its like to be re-badged or re-traded right ?

PERI = Gone
500 series trades..........amalgamation anyone ?
Signals trades.......amalgamation on the horizon ?
Ocean Op.......amalgamated
AD Tech.......amalgamated with ATC Tech
FEE Op........amalgamated
 
tango22a said:
After reading some of the posts I have come to the conclusion that the majority of posters feel that the PRes is of dubious  use other than supply GD personnel to the RegF.
You have come to the wrong conclusion. 

tango22a said:
If it's any consolation to you I can remember being told years ago that the ElginR were given the choice of either re-badging or dis-banding.
I was in the regiment at the time.  That is not how I remember it.  In fact, I understand that certain leadership from the regiment had specifically pushed for the opportunity.

tango22a said:
Speaking for MYSELF only. I either would have transferred out, or pulled the pin and VRd. I must point out that I joined to be an Armoured soldier not an Engineer.
If the capability the unit provides is not relevant to operations (current or future), then we should not keep it as-is just to avoid hurting peoples emotions.  If a reservist feels the CF owes him a hobby and is less concerned with what the CF actually needs, then he may well leave.  We will get on & be better for it.
 
CDN Aviator said:
But yeah...the RegF doesnt know what its like to be re-badged or re-traded right ?

PERI = Gone
500 series trades..........amalgamation anyone ?
Signals trades.......amalgamation on the horizon ?
Ocean Op.......amalgamated
AD Tech.......amalgamated with ATC Tech
FEE Op........amalgamated

From the infantry:

Pioneers ...... gone
Mortars ...... gone
Armour Defence ....... gone

I know exactly what it's like to have years of personal training and experience suddenly be made irrelevant.  My preference that mortars to remain in the infantry was insufficient to protect my interests.

 
MCG and CDNAviator:

The person who told me that had been ElginR before transferring. I don't have an axe to grind as I am no longer active. All I can say is if I am wrong in my assumption(making a huge a** of myself)...Sorry about that!

Cheers,

tango22a
 
Greetings gentlemen.  First off this is my first post (on a stale thread), and I readily admit my long term participation on these forums has a lot to do with my decisions in the next week.  That said this seems to be a great board and I appreciate the civil and heated discussions, kudos to you all.  Now as to the decision I am speaking of is in regards to joining the Part Time Reserves (and potentially full time or reg forces in the future if it can be financially viable).  20 years ago I had two paths before me, the armed forces or the forestry service.  I chose the forestry service, yet as life seldom works out as we plan it, I didn't end up with a career in that field anyway. :(  Fast forward to the present, I have a family and a good career as an Electrician, but the call to serve my country and continue to  honour and uphold the commitment of my grandfathers hasn't quieted in my mind or heart.  But the fact remains anything short of a messy divorce will not give the ability to join the regular forces and provide for them as I am now able to do.  Which is where the reserves come in, and how I came to reading this discussion.  God knows I am not looking for another hobby (I have plenty of those and will likely need to make some hard decisions in which to discontinue- including my small business which has been a major factor in placing me where I am now- if I pursue the reserves), but am earnestly looking to do my best to fulfill my duty to my country and my family. 

As it turns out the only reserve unit in my vicinity is an armoured recce unit, the crux of this discussion.  If volunteering to such a unit is of little value, is it worth me making the sacrifices I would need to make in order to do so?  And if so would be joining as an officer be more relevant than as a NCM in the grand scheme of things?  This thread has been interesting, enlightening, and somewhat disheartening.  Any thought would be appreciated.  Thanks.

Gary
 
Welcome, Gary.

If you haven't done so already, take a trip down to your local Reserve unit.  Talk to the recruiters and ask them to allow you to talk to the troops.  Take some time to observe the training and then decide.

Be warned, though, getting recruited can be a long process.  The process can be accelerated by delivering all your documents on time and completed legibly and fullly.  You are not the only applicant the recruiters will be processing and their efforts will, rightfully, go towards thouse who meet the deliverables.
 
Where do I draw my ATV? Yee hawwwww.....


Military readies reservists for threats to 'domestic front'



The Canadian military has embarked on a wide-ranging plan to turn its reserve soldiers into focused units trained and equipped to respond to a nightmarish array of domestic threats, including terrorist “dirty bomb” attacks, biological agent containment, Arctic catastrophes and natural disasters.


The creation of seven units within each region of the country -- including unusual all-terrain vehicle (ATV) squadrons and perimeter security teams to cordon areas of potential devastation -- prepares reserve soldiers for operations on the “domestic front” while freeing regular force soldiers to concentrate on foreign battlefields.


“There is a recognition, certainly within the military and we have heard the government say, that domestic security is the number one priority. A number of these conclusions come from the post-9/11 world we live in,” said Brigadier-General Jean Collin, commander of the army in Ontario, during an exclusive interview with the National Post.


“The reality is an army needs to train, an army needs to equip itself and an army needs to be ready.”


The remodeling of the reserves will see the development of specialist units in four of the military’s regional divisions -- Atlantic, Quebec, Ontario and the West. The units will include perimeter security teams prepared to cordon off an area if there was an atomic detonation, nuclear accident or similar source of wide contamination and “Arctic response” groups that are trained and equipped to live and operate in the far north.


The changes highlight both a renewed focus on domestic security and the increased role of reservists, who are part-time volunteer soldiers augmenting the ranks of full-time soldiers, who are referred to as the “regular” forces. The place of reserves in the Canadian Forces in Afghanistan was shown yesterday when one of three soldiers killed by a roadside bomb was a reservist from Ontario.


“Some of the stuff we are now asking the reservists to do is because we need them; because the regular force simply does not have sufficient people, sufficient resources, to do it on their own,” said Brig-Gen. Collin.


“And the reservists have certainly demonstrated that they have the capability to do all this and more.”


Brig-Gen. Collin, who has served in Bosnia and Afghanistan, has also been a special advisor to the Chief of the Defence Staff on homeland security issues.


The military divides operations into two broad divisions: away missions, such as the action in Afghanistan, called “expeditionary operations,” and home missions, such as helping with floods in Winnipeg, called “domestic operations.”


“The lead -- the main contributor -- for expeditionary operation is the regular force. They form the core for expeditionary operations and are augmented by reservists,” said Brig-Gen. Collin.


“What we have now said is that for domestic operations, the core will actually be provided by the reserve force, augmented by the regular force.


The reserves take a dominant role in domestic operations in the future, once they are properly equipped and trained to do so.”


The remodeling of the reserves, ordered at the start of 2009, is expected to take two to three years to complete.


The remodeling will also likely see the reserves play a larger role in domestic security situations, including the 2010 Winter Olympic Games in

Vancouver and the G8 summit of world leaders that has been announced for 2010 at a resort in Huntsville, 220 kilometres north of Toronto, he said.


The national plan places the reserves at the forefront of grim scenarios that are the stuff of apocalyptic Hollywood movies.


“We all know the threat from dirty bombs, chemical contaminants. This is certainly one of the more dangerous situations that can arise,” said Brig.-Gen. Collin.


“You can certainly get it from a terrorist act. You can also get it from a man-made disaster. You can get nuclear contamination from a nuclear power plant -- Three Mile Island, Chernobyl.


“We are training to establish a perimeter. Do I see a scenario when we might be obliged to keep people in? Probably. You need to be trained to be able to make sure that you don’t become a casualty in the process of doing that security.”


The Arctic units -- companies of about 120 people in each region, that can come together as a single force if needed -- poses a challenge of a different sort, primarily training for the harsh conditions of the far north.


“We are going to have up to an entire battalion of soldiers who are prepared to go live and operate in the north and that entire battalion will come from the reserves. We are having them trained now, as we speak, to operate in the north,” said Brig.-Gen. Collin, who himself just returned from a visit to several remote aboriginal communities where he suffered though the deep cold in a military-issue tent.


“It was bloody cold… But you can dress, equip and operate up there if you know what you’re doing,” he said.


Currently, about 120 reservists from southern Ontario are involved in Exercise Polar Warrior, a week of training in Arctic warfare and survival in Kitchenuhmaykoosib Inninuwug, a First Nations community on Big Trout Lake. To equip the ATV Squadron, the first commercial vehicles are arriving in the coming months. They will not be armed or painted in camouflage and are not intended for combat use. They could be deployed in rural and remote areas to traverse wooded ravines or in an urban setting that has suffered devastation, such as an earthquake or massive explosion.


The plans also call for turning over responsibility for the force’s Reverse Osmosis Water Purification Units -- mobile, high-capacity machines for cleaning water to drinkable standards -- to the reserves. The machines have been used abroad, in Sri Lanka helping victims of the 2004 tsunami, and also domestically in Kashechewan, Ont., when the community’s water supply was tainted by E. coli bacteria in 2005.


David Bercuson, director of the Centre for Military and Strategic Studies at the University of Calgary, said the changes make sense given the current global security situation.


“Reserves are all local and spread out across the country. It seems to me the people best situated to help the first responders would be the

reservists. It makes a lot of sense. Also, the regular force is so stretched and stressed right now,” said Mr. Bercuson.


Mr. Bercuson was surprised to hear, however, of envisioned scenarios that might require a form of constabulary or policing function for reserves in civilian containment and security.


“People in Ottawa sometimes forget that the reserves are volunteers. If you try to change the reserves in ways they don’t want to change, they just might not show up.”

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=1353971

 
In some ways is the old Militia National Survival Training from the 1950s and early 60s coming back?

That was a fizzer.

OWDU
 
I can see good things to give to the reserve operational task.  What can be dangerous his to get back to that big gap between the Reg and the Res.  About 25 years ago, when the decision was made to retrain the reserve for combat, we had lost tank, and even machine gun in the units.

In my unit, we  had only 5 X FNC2 and 1 X GPMG.  Not even enough to equip 1 platoon and even less a coy.  We had even not enough ruck-sac and sleeping bag to equip everybody.  This his the path that I can see comming real fast...for the sake of ''economy of ressource''

We really dont want that...again
 
Deja ju.

OWDU and FusMR have expressed legitimate concerns.  The Reserves should be considered for this, but not loose in the process.  The loss of warfighting skills will create a larger training delta between Reg and Reserve than already exists.  Even Prof Bercuson has made some valid points about commitment of volunteer Reservists.  Many Reservists hold civilian jobs and don't have Government support in their taking Leave of Absence from those jobs.

Lack of resources and quantities of compatible equipment to operate with the Regular Forces is currently a problem.  This is a problem, not only overseas, but domestically. 

Civilianizing the equipment that Reservists get issued can lead to problems in the future.  Commercial ATV's not militarized, or even painted with CF colours, is a small point that may lead to serious security problems in an emergency.  It will give the impression to the public that the Reserves are nothing more than AirSofters. 

Over the past year, or two, or three, we have seen many of these grandeous plans, and seen implentation on some fronts; all hamstrung by lack of Treasury Board support and funding.  We have seen the robbing of Peter to pay Paul in order to give the impression to some big wig that things are happening and progress is being made.  It is a Romanov trick.  The turkey dinners are not on every villager's dinner table, but only one that is being moved from household to household through the back doors as the Czar moves through the front doors.  Should he have taken a drumstick, he would have known.  It is time for the CF, as a whole, not just the Reserves to stop reinventing "Transformation" and start "Reconstruction".  This means "Equiping" all Elements to the proper scales, and building a large War Reserve (equipment).
 
It means it's time to do a long, hard look:  With 19K reservists in the Army, what is possible?  Plans must be built on that resource base - not a pie-in-the-sky dream of growing to 30K next week.

In fact, it's many less than 19K - take out those not yet qualified, and a slim C2 slice (much less than the bloat we have today) and you're probably looking at a trained strength on the order of 11-12K available.

So what can we expect in terms of skills maintenance from a primarily part-time organization?  A Reserve infantryman, in the time available, cannot maintain the same breadth of skills as their Regular Force counterpart (infantry as an example - it's the same in every trade).  What other abilities are already in the CF that perhaps don't need to be duplicated elsewhere (hint: the Air Reserve already does ROWPU work)?  What areas will require greater depth than can be provided by the Reg F?  What things is the CF still doing that we never use (hint: look for the colour Maroon)?

MilCOTS equipment is a good thing, properly done.  It reduces support costs when we can drop the trucks off at the local dealer, vice maintaining DND/CF capacity that is significantly more expensive.  Properly flag it as CF (matte olive drab paint).  We will not get away from training pools of equipment; giving every location everything they may want is unaffordable and unnecessary.

We do need to be smarter managers, and need to dis-intermediate a lot of our C2 structures - CBGs, at the very least, are, slow, inefficient mailboxes that only serve to redirect and delay communications.  Modern IT should have brought a revolution in streamlined C2 - instead we've moved our old, egocentric, "I'm the top dog so all must flow through me" mentality processes onto computers.
 
One more note to add:

There was significant funding given to improve and fix and increase capacity, largely frittered away.  It wasn't a blank cheque - "Fix your bloated structures".  And since a certain MGen refused to do anything but make wild-eyed promises, never built solid plans, and began estimates by saying "We won't touch HQs" we got, frankly, more than we deserved.

If the Army had been willing to modernize the Reserves a decade ago, willing to confront the old farts brigade and say "One hundred soliders is a company - commanded by a major", we'd be much farther ahead.

As long as we argue and fight to maintain succession plans that are not even one deep, LCol positions because "You need a LCol to talk to the mayor", and cap-badges are more important than capability, the Reserves will continue to muddle along.  New plans are slapping a coat of paint over the rust, rather than grinding the rust away, patching, priming, then painting.
 
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