CMMA - replacing the CP140 Aurora

[Weinie]

And this why the DND is looking to life extend the CP140.

As I have posted before, you could see this coming. Quebec Inc, the Liberal party, and are not onboard with the Boeing plan. Bombardier should be able to sell this very easily. You will have Quebec on side from the start. You can get the Canadian anti American side going along. The press is already onside plus will do what they are told now. Now with GD in on it. They have a good size footprint in the Canada.

Taking bets on:

1. The 16 unit buy of P-8
2. A competition with P-8 and the Bomber.
3. Slit buy of some P-8's and future buy of the magic CAD Bomber design.

I'm going with number 3. Mainly because its the best outcome I think we can hope for. In that we get some P-8 v the most likely outcome of the Bomber vaporware. I do think Bombardier is the front runner now. It's almost impossible to soul source now. "They have a plane, see here's the drawing"

Extra point.....name of the Bombardier design? I'm going with Argus II.

How apropos vis a vis the Laurentian elite.

 

[CBH99]

Read the link posted - Thanks for that

 

[KevinB]

Probably not a good source of information for the 295 is Skies Magazine.

Plane flies just fine, sensors work great - sky is not falling. Don’t get too riled up by the hype….

Can you easily drop SAR Tech’s?

 

[GK .Dundas]

Can you easily drop SAR Tech’s?

Now you're just being rude.

 

[KevinB]

Now you're just being rude.

Not intending to be.

The standard CASA was able to drop troops door and ramp as I understood - as it was used on a rental/lease basis for folks going to CPC (which I found odd given when CABC was in Edmonton we jumped from Herc’s but then the move to Trenton to be closer to the Herc’s resulted in a lot of CASA jumps.

But based on what I have read the changes to the airframe apparently altered the paratroop door, and as a result it’s very awkward or impossible to safely side dispatch on the new design.

 

[SupersonicMax]

Can you easily drop SAR Tech’s?

Pretty sure SAR techs can be dropped without issues…. It’s when things go wrong that’s the issue.

 

[GK .Dundas]

Not intending to be.

The standard CASA was able to drop troops door and ramp as I understood - as it was used on a rental/lease basis for folks going to CPC (which I found odd given when CABC was in Edmonton we jumped from Herc’s but then the move to Trenton to be closer to the Herc’s resulted in a lot of CASA jumps.

But based on what I have read the changes to the airframe apparently altered the paratroop door, and as a result it’s very awkward or impossible to safely side dispatch on the new design.

Sorry that was my poor attempt to be humourous prior to coffee.

 

[dimsum]

In many way it is like the F-35. Very political. Now it is Quebec Inc., the PM, CDN nationalist, anti-americans, vs Boeing and logic.

I get the "Quebec Inc" side. What I don't get are the "PM, Cdn nationalist, anti-American" side of that argument.

The PM or MND hasn't said anything about changing the competition in light of Bombardier's announcement. The RFIs have been out for a while - I remember the P-8 was announced at CANSEC almost exactly a year ago and Bombardier etc could have said something. As far as I know, they didn't.

Also, if anyone is wondering, General Dynamics is an American company so again, the "anti-American" argument doesn't seem to make sense.

Remember on the basic level Bombardier has a plane that flies. Its just the mission bits it needs.....really all the hard stuff! but most people don't understand that.

Sikorsky's CH-148 also flies. CASA's C-295 is also a plane that flies.

If I were a journalist, the first thing I would ask would be "so, how would Bombardier's bid be any different than the Cyclone and Kingfisher?"

 

[suffolkowner]

You would think they would push for the A220 as it would be a more comparable plane although I realize it is not a Bombardier product anymore

GlobalEye=maybe yes
P7=no

 

[Quirky]

Had we bought the F-35s years ago we would have had buggy planes. Stalling has actually helped us tremendously in this one example. They are also a whole lot cheaper now than years ago.

Software updates are a wonderful thing.
So you're okay with wasting money on already obsolete used Australian F-18s, which needed to be modernized, instead of spending a few extra million per F-35? Okay.

 

[dimsum]

Software updates are a wonderful thing.
So you're okay with wasting money on already obsolete used Australian F-18s, which needed to be modernized, instead of spending a few extra million per F-35? Okay.

I'm totally guessing here but I think the RAAF F-18s were a knee-jerk response once they realized that not buying F-35s meant having sustainability issues.

 

[Dana381]

Software updates are a wonderful thing.
So you're okay with wasting money on already obsolete used Australian F-18s, which needed to be modernized, instead of spending a few extra million per F-35? Okay.

How do you get there from my response. I didn't say anything about my opinion of the way the government handled the situation. I only commented that this time it worked out in our favor.

 

[Good2Golf]

Drawing =/= plane.

CH-148 laughs at you.

 

[Zoomie]

Not intending to be.

The standard CASA was able to drop troops door and ramp as I understood - as it was used on a rental/lease basis for folks going to CPC (which I found odd given when CABC was in Edmonton we jumped from Herc’s but then the move to Trenton to be closer to the Herc’s resulted in a lot of CASA jumps.

But based on what I have read the changes to the airframe apparently altered the paratroop door, and as a result it’s very awkward or impossible to safely side dispatch on the new design.

There are no side doors on the CC-295.

We don’t dispatch STs via side door anymore - so moot point.

The ramp on the Kingfisher is longer and wider than the Buff and Cormorant. We freefall off both those platforms safely.

 

[KevinB]

There are no side doors on the CC-295.

We don’t dispatch STs via side door anymore - so moot point.

The ramp on the Kingfisher is longer and wider than the Buff and Cormorant. We freefall off both those platforms safely.

SAR Tech's now free falling? - they used to jump CT-4's (Rectangular chute - but static line, which admittedly didn't make sense to me)

 

[CBH99]

SAR Tech's now free falling? - they used to jump CT-4's (Rectangular chute - but static line, which admittedly didn't make sense to me)

I’ve seen the odd course video (I think it’s course video anyway) and yeah, there’s a bunch of bright orange dudes doing free fall in them

 

[CBH99]

Software updates are a wonderful thing.
So you're okay with wasting money on already obsolete used Australian F-18s, which needed to be modernized, instead of spending a few extra million per F-35? Okay.

It would have been wasted money either way, for the reasons given.

The Australian F-18’s needed modernization, and cost us a pretty penny.

But the F-35 - as the plane was when we first hummed about buying 65 - were going to leave us in a world of hurt also…and a probably more expensive world of hurt than the Aussie jets



Let’s not forget, those same aircraft (same lots off the production line) have been taken offline permanently by the USAF…

Concurrency, as dumb as it was, would have been even more harsh to us

 

[Zoomie]

SAR Tech's now free falling? - they used to jump CT-4's (Rectangular chute - but static line, which admittedly didn't make sense to me)

Yup. Been doing it since at least when I started doing SAR in 2004.

Corm free fall is relatively new, last 4-5 years.

Static line is still only approved exit technique for operational jumps (ie with SARPELS and equipment) - can only do this on Fixed Wing.

 

[Maxman1]

It would have been wasted money either way, for the reasons given.

The Australian F-18’s needed modernization, and cost us a pretty penny.

But the F-35 - as the plane was when we first hummed about buying 65 - were going to leave us in a world of hurt also…and a probably more expensive world of hurt than the Aussie jets



Let’s not forget, those same aircraft (same lots off the production line) have been taken offline permanently by the USAF…

Concurrency, as dumb as it was, would have been even more harsh to us

Except we wouldn't have gotten the earliest models back then. If the purchase wasn't halted in 2015, we would have ordered them maybe late 2016, more likely 2017 or 2018, and deliveries would have just started now.

 

[suffolkowner]

We managed to hold off until Blk 4 by accident of our crappy procurement system and Liberal political interference. I think the only partner nation to not order from earlier blks. Once again demonstrating our unreliability and selfishness. Hopefully we dont do this again with the P8 purchase. Just do it!