CMMA - replacing the CP140 Aurora

[Good2Golf]

Oh I would call that Ego at least as large as southwest England

Ken Rose’s ego + the Irving brothers’ egos = Antartica…

 

[dapaterson]

Twin Otter maritime patrol aircraft for the win!

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Twin Otter maritime patrol aircraft for the win!

Vapourware MPA for the win!

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Letter writing etc aside and all that, I am still just watching stuff like this:

Statement on the Canadian Multi-Mission Aircraft (CMMA) for the Royal Canadian Air Force - In the news - Newsroom - PSPC

As part of its defence policy Strong, Secure, Engaged, the Government of Canada is seeking to replace the CP-140 Aurora fleet with a Canadian Multi-Mission Aircraft (CMMA) for the Royal Canadian Air Force (RCAF).

www.tpsgc-pwgsc.gc.ca

Canadian Multi-Mission Aircraft (CMMA) Project Request for Information (RFI) - Tender Notice | CanadaBuys

This notice is linked to the following request for information: Canadian Multi-Mission Aircraft (CMMA) Project Request for Information (RFI) - Tender Notice | CanadaBuysThe Government of Canada is committed to providing its Armed Forces with the equipment they need.

canadabuys.canada.ca

Bombardier still does not have an aircraft that is beyond the 3D printer stage. The HLMRs haven’t change.

I’m not spinning up until the GoC makes an announcement; the LOR is still in play. The GoC has a solid understanding of the cost and timelines involved for R&D of what Bombardier etc is pushing for.

It’s simple; they keep saying they’d like to bid. Then do it; submit your paper airplane against the RFI and HLMRs. Provide the cost and timeline.

 

[dapaterson]

Look, can a P8 be fitted with pontoons for a water landing?

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Look, can a P8 be fitted with pontoons for a water landing?

At least once, I’d say “hell ya”. It would be a single-use system though.

 

[YZT580]

Twin Otter maritime patrol aircraft for the win!

Are the drop doors on the CL415 large enough to accommodate any of our torpedoes. If so, there is deHavilland's entry right there for a coastal patrol aircraft. So we buy 6 of them, 3 for each coast and 6 globals for offshore work and an additional 6 for executive transport but set up for conversion later. Problem solved. We get two bespoke fleets out of it.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Are the drop doors on the CL415 large enough to accommodate any of our torpedoes. If so, there is deHavilland's entry right there for a coastal patrol aircraft. So we buy 6 of them, 3 for each coast and 6 globals for offshore work and an additional 6 for executive transport but set up for conversion later. Problem solved. We get two bespoke fleets out of it.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

"General Dynamics is already responsible for developing the new sensors on board the CP-140 Auroras and the CH-148 Cyclone helicopter" is a statement I've seen in an article or two lately.

I'd like to see how they define "developing the new sensors", and if they're talking SW SP and Dev...don't pat yourselves on the back there too hard folks; I've operated with those OFPs/IMS/etc. I'm curious what WesCam, Telephonics, Teledyne etc would think about their claim.

I thought there was a FD Sqn and a TEF that did that development stuff, too.

I won't even start on the FWI for the Cyclone SW Support; I'd like to keep my BP in the healthy range going into the weekend...

 

[Spencer100]

Letter writing etc aside and all that, I am still just watching stuff like this:

Statement on the Canadian Multi-Mission Aircraft (CMMA) for the Royal Canadian Air Force - In the news - Newsroom - PSPC

As part of its defence policy Strong, Secure, Engaged, the Government of Canada is seeking to replace the CP-140 Aurora fleet with a Canadian Multi-Mission Aircraft (CMMA) for the Royal Canadian Air Force (RCAF).

www.tpsgc-pwgsc.gc.ca

Canadian Multi-Mission Aircraft (CMMA) Project Request for Information (RFI) - Tender Notice | CanadaBuys

This notice is linked to the following request for information: Canadian Multi-Mission Aircraft (CMMA) Project Request for Information (RFI) - Tender Notice | CanadaBuysThe Government of Canada is committed to providing its Armed Forces with the equipment they need.

canadabuys.canada.ca

Bombardier still does not have an aircraft that is beyond the 3D printer stage. The HLMRs haven’t change.

I’m not spinning up until the GoC makes an announcement; the LOR is still in play. The GoC has a solid understanding of the cost and timelines involved for R&D of what Bombardier etc is pushing for.

It’s simple; they keep saying they’d like to bid. Then do it; submit your paper airplane against the RFI and HLMRs. Provide the cost and timeline.

You are 100% if it stays in the dept and civil service realm. But if it goes the political, Quebec Inc. side of the house things may change. We have seen it before. Bombardier doesn't want to submit against the current RFI, they need it rewritten. We have all seen it before. You can go look at the FWSAR bid, the CSC bid, etc. The CSC had to be ship in the water....the first T-26 is still not finished.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

You are 100% if it stays in the dept and civil service realm. But if it goes the political, Quebec Inc. side of the house things may change. We have seen it before. Bombardier doesn't want to submit against the current RFI, they need it rewritten. We have all seen it before. You can go look at the FWSAR bid, the CSC bid, etc. The CSC had to be ship in the water....the first T-26 is still not finished.

It was never just in the dept and civil service realm, IMO...one difference I consider is not only the expeditionary "expectations" of our LRP fleet, but also the NORAD aspect of it.

Maybe I'm being too hopeful but I just haven't seen or heard anything to make me think this 'campaign' is having an affect. There will be a reply to the LOR and an announcement after, I suspect.

If we didn't learn from the fighter, FWSAR and Cyclone files....then there's no hope.

If Bombardier can't meet the HMLRs, then they can't offer an Aurora replacement...

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Look, can a P8 be fitted with pontoons for a water landing?

umm yes we done a proof of concept and are advance to the next stage of tests

 

[MTShaw]

Couldn’t the US just ITAR any parts that they don’t want us to this horrible dead end. I would.

 

[Good2Golf]

Couldn’t the US just ITAR any parts that they don’t want us to this horrible dead end. I would.

Canada’s ITAR-related National Security Exemption enters the saloon…

 

[Spencer100]

Canada’s ITAR-related National Security Exemption enters the saloon…

Thales enters, Hi guys!

 

[KevinB]

Canada’s ITAR-related National Security Exemption enters the saloon…

I'd like to point out that is subject to the US Sponsor entity...
I suspect if Canadian tried to go a non P-8 route that pressures may be exerted on several programs to bring the ship back on course and out of a swan dive to oblivion...

 

[Spencer100]

I'd like to point out that is subject to the US Sponsor entity...
I suspect if Canadian tried to go a non P-8 route that pressures may be exerted on several programs to bring the ship back on course and out of a swan dive to oblivion...

I don't give the US as much sway over individual programs, I think if they see overall improvement in total spending and it would be enough. Plus that can be fixed easily enough, bring Lockheed on the bombardier program. Fixed. Lockheed needs a MPA offering anyway. But they did pick DGMS-C so maybe too late.

They didn't get any takers for this.

But may get some takers for this believe to or not


But here is Thales, PAL and DHC. I know not even close to what the P-8 is.

PAL, Thales Partner On MPA Mission System | Aviation Week Network

PAL Aerospace and Thales have signed a strategic agreement to co-develop new maritime patrol aircraft (MPA) mission systems, hoping to entice the Royal Malaysian Air Force (RMAF) for its MPA program.

aviationweek.com

Plus I found this cool pic of P-8. Thought I would post it here as "what could have been"

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I don't give the US as much sway over individual programs, I think if they see overall improvement in total spending and it would be enough. Plus that can be fixed easily enough, bring Lockheed on the bombardier program. Fixed. Lockheed needs a MPA offering anyway. But they did pick DGMS-C so maybe too late.

They didn't get any takers for this.
View attachment 77743
But may get some takers for this believe to or not
View attachment 77744

But here is Thales, PAL and DHC. I know not even close to what the P-8 is.

PAL, Thales Partner On MPA Mission System | Aviation Week Network

PAL Aerospace and Thales have signed a strategic agreement to co-develop new maritime patrol aircraft (MPA) mission systems, hoping to entice the Royal Malaysian Air Force (RMAF) for its MPA program.

aviationweek.com

Plus I found this cool pic of P-8. Thought I would post it here as "what could have been"

View attachment 77742

…before we pay good money to have those “unnecessarily aggressive” wing hard points removed…

 

[KevinB]

I don't give the US as much sway over individual programs, I think if they see overall improvement in total spending and it would be enough.

Interoperability is a big thing.
Right now the AUKUS group is making steam.

Biden seeks legislation to invest in Australia, UK defense industries

The Biden administration is asking Congress to make Australia and the U.K. eligible for U.S. Defense Production Act grants and loans as part of AUKUS.

www.federaltimes.com

Plus that can be fixed easily enough, bring Lockheed on the bombardier program.

Lockheed doesn’t need an MPA or an AWACS, they have the Fighter dominance in air at this point, plus the SOF FloatHerc that you mentioned picking up steam.

Plus they are working with Airbus on the next gen Refueling bird.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I say, based on the Bombardier argument, this company should put a counter-bid in to oppose the 6500 series unicorn:

• already an established airframe with years of satisfied customers
• international sales and supply chain
• spare parts not an issue
• it is actually “real” and exits already

And, Block 2 has already been planned…



Additional savings could be had if we went all in and got the hangers, Tower, techs, AMSE and optional SAR helo add-on package.




Again, all the FP aviation department systems exist, unlike the 6500U (unicorn) aircraft.

Looks like Bombardier has more than one competitor to worry about here…