CMMA - replacing the CP140 Aurora

[FJAG]

LAV6, ACSV, TAPV, MSVS, LVM…

M777, LCMR, MMR, LRSS, GBAD, the list goes on.

I'd feel better if the Indirect Fires Modernization project wasn't talking about equipping both the regular and the reserve force but was looking at only 16-18 guns (8 deployed, 8 force generation and 2 spares) We're once again thinking small in the extreme. When will we get out of the battle group rut that Afghanistan put everyone in - 6 guns here, 15 tanks there - crap we had a lot more than that on my CTCC (and yes @dapaterson , those were Centurions) and on Black Bear (Okay - Leo 1s)

 

[dimsum]

So, on topic, one question is what to do with the Flight Engineers. The Aurora (and P-3 Orion) had them sitting behind the pilots, but the P-8 doesn’t.

That question has been mentioned a few times on social media, but I think they will either be shifted to the Griffon, Chinook, or Herc H (not J) fleets. Or, perhaps a VOT to another trade.

 

[dapaterson]

So, on topic, one question is what to do with the Flight Engineers. The Aurora (and P-3 Orion) had them sitting behind the pilots, but the P-8 doesn’t.

That question has been mentioned a few times on social media, but I think they will either be shifted to the Griffon, Chinook, or Herc H (not J) fleets. Or, perhaps a VOT to another trade.

Remuster them all to Hull Tech.

 

[Good2Golf]

Remuster them all to Hull Tech.

Steward?

 

[dapaterson]

Steward?

Nah, that's where we'll remuster the ACSOs.

 

[Good2Golf]

Nah, that's where we'll remuster the ACSOs.

Good point. Want to maintain MOSID diversity during the crush…

 

[Halifax Tar]

Remuster them all to Hull Tech.

Steward?

Ouch... You guys are savage lol

 

[dimsum]

Nah, that's where we'll remuster the ACSOs.

If anything they may need more ACSOs per plane, not less. Our allies have 2, sometimes 3 per flight.

The Aurora had 2.

 

[Good2Golf]

If anything they may need more ACSOs per plane, not less. Our allies have 2, sometimes 3 per flight.

The Aurora had 2.

Does the P-8 have a larger galley than the CP-140? More work for the Airborne Coffee Supply Officer?

 

[Fabius]

The FMS announcement is interesting. Gives a good view of all the kit that comes with the P8. I don't know if there is anything unusual in there, that would suggest any Canadianization.

Canada – P-8A Aircraft | Defense Security Cooperation Agency

www.dsca.mil

Interesting that there are no munitions in the FMS announcement. I’m assuming the Mark54 torpedoes and sonobuoys from the CP140 will just transfer over but it would have been interesting to see air launched Harpoons or SLAM- ER included. I don’t believe those are in our inventory currently.

Maybe we will see FSM buys of LRASM and HAAWC in the near future.

 

[dimsum]

Does the P-8 have a larger galley than the CP-140? More work for the Airborne Coffee Supply Officer?

I’m fairly certain that a galley large enough for OFFSTA pizzas and battlefield 3-course meals is part of the HLMRs.

And let’s be serious here - the Acoustics AES Ops are the masters at converting food to poop on the aircraft.

 

[dimsum]

The FMS announcement is interesting. Gives a good view of all the kit that comes with the P8. I don't know if there is anything unusual in there, that would suggest any Canadianization.

Canada – P-8A Aircraft | Defense Security Cooperation Agency

www.dsca.mil

Facing more advanced threats, Canada secures US$5.9B deal for up to 16 P-8A Poseidon aircraft - Skies Mag

The US$5.9B deal includes 14 P-8A aircraft, with options for up to two more, as well as associated equipment, training devices, and initial sustainment.

skiesmag.com

The first P-8A is expected in 2026, followed by about one a month until the fall of 2027. Full operational capability is anticipated for 2033. The only Canadian modification will be the paint scheme.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

And to top it off, to reduce costs the RCAF can no longer book 5 star hotels, 4 star max

 

[Eye In The Sky]

The FMS announcement is interesting. Gives a good view of all the kit that comes with the P8. I don't know if there is anything unusual in there, that would suggest any Canadianization.

Canada – P-8A Aircraft | Defense Security Cooperation Agency

www.dsca.mil

The “unusual” part will be the kit is integrated and “serviceable”; not a claim the fleet, PMO, WSM, or GDMS-C can honestly make about Block 4…

Modern EO/IR, CM suite. If I were a reporter asking questions, I’d ask if Canada is implementing HAAWC (announcement is purchase for P-8A vice P-8I; no MAD). My personal opinion is you need one, or the other. I’d opt for both.

U.S. Navy Declares IOC for Boeing’s HAAWC - Naval News

Boeing's High Altitude Anti-Submarine Warfare Weapon Capability, or HAAWC, has achieved initial operational capability status from the U.S. Navy.

www.navalnews.com

 

[Eye In The Sky]

So, on topic, one question is what to do with the Flight Engineers. The Aurora (and P-3 Orion) had them sitting behind the pilots, but the P-8 doesn’t.

That question has been mentioned a few times on social media, but I think they will either be shifted to the Griffon, Chinook, or Herc H (not J) fleets. Or, perhaps a VOT to another trade.

There might be a group/project looking at all flying NCM trades and a form of “amalgamation/re-alignment”.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Does the P-8 have a larger galley than the CP-140? More work for the Airborne Coffee Supply Officer?

A modern “doesn’t make you think of Dads 1975 station wagon” galley…

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Interesting that there are no munitions in the FMS announcement. I’m assuming the Mark54 torpedoes and sonobuoys from the CP140 will just transfer over but it would have been interesting to see air launched Harpoons or SLAM- ER included. I don’t believe those are in our inventory currently.

Maybe we will see FSM buys of LRASM and HAAWC in the near future.

The 140 isn’t currently carrying 54s. Current bombbay and wing stores are limited to torp and SKAD (no wing stores). A size sonos are A size sonos - the 140 launches them using CADs, the P-8 uses compressed air.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Forward to aft look…

 

[Eye In The Sky]

And let’s be serious here - the Acoustics AES Ops are the masters at converting food to poop on the aircraft.

 

[Retired AF Guy]

Interesting that there are no munitions in the FMS announcement. I’m assuming the Mark54 torpedoes and sonobuoys from the CP140 will just transfer over but it would have been interesting to see air launched Harpoons or SLAM- ER included. I don’t believe those are in our inventory currently.

Maybe we will see FSM buys of LRASM and HAAWC in the near future.

According to the Skies Magazine article "the government expects to spend C$10.4 billion on the new fleet, training system, advanced weapons, and upgrades to infrastructure."

So its very possible that the weapons systems will be bought separately.

As for sonobuoys, the same article states "The Aurora’s static passive sonobuoy system will be replaced by a multi-static active array system."