CMMA - replacing the CP140 Aurora

[Eye In The Sky]

I could be wrong, but my take on the revealing of the P-6 model was to see if anyone who didn't/doesn't want to buy P-8 for whatever reason might be interested in a smaller MPA.

Sort of like...Turkey (they use a 235 baby-MPA).

https://flic.kr/p/ofQCxD

 

[Eye In The Sky]

not sure going with the P-6 is a good move or something I would be in favour of but then I didnt realize it was even an option. How does it compare on time on station, endurance, range, payload, sensors?

It can carry model-sized search and kill stores. Endurance...on station...I'm not a SME on models but I think they're fairly limited.



I'll say this...their "torp box" they refer to in their article. Ask them what the drag count on something like that would be and how it affects fuel burn.

 

[MTShaw]

Right so if you're going to try to speak the lingo, take a look at the HLMRs and tell me which one the P-8 is deficient in. I can tell you which ones the P-6 is deficient in. ALL of them, because it's a model.

Next, take a look at para 5 of the RFI you posted above (that i've posted several times in the thread so far in hopes people would read the HLMRs, at least). That date is well in the rear view mirror...and I've seen no indication of changes to the RFI to date.

I was making a joke. And yes, I have read it.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Wait you think you got a choice?

P-8’s are coming, the only question is what markings do they have when over Canadian airspace…

The RCAF will be the 4th country to operate P-8s in Canadian airspace if/when we get them.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I was making a joke. And yes, I have read it.

Throw in a smiley or something, hook a fella up like that next time.

 

[GR66]

Come on folks, stop standing on the sidelines!

Who’s in on CMA poker?

Opening wager is 10 P-8s and 8 P-6s…

Don’t be shy!

How about 18 x P-8s to replace the CP-140's and then we convert all 16 of the planned CC-295's into the MPA version that is already in service.

Then we can buy 16 x C-27J's that will actually work for the SAR role.

A guy can dream can't he???

 

[Eye In The Sky]

The article in CDR claims that already there is 10 million of Canadian content in every P8 currently made.

Yup. For anyone who hasn't read it and is interested...

Vol 29-Iss 1

Vol 29-Iss 1

viewer.zmags.com

 

[Eye In The Sky]

How about 18 x P-8s to replace the CP-140's and then we convert all 16 of the planned CC-295's into the MPA version that is already in service.

Then we can buy 16 x C-27J's that will actually work for the SAR role.

A guy can dream can't he???

I'd be for sending some of the 295s to FaCT and the ME school...keep some for MSA (Surv, vice Patrol, like the Arcturus )...

Arcturus

I've suggested before, if they did re-role the 295, you could do the OTU on a 295 and then do a conversion course to the P-8 on Sqn. My Dad did OTU as a Flight Engineer on the Neptune in the late 60s, and then did his Argus conversion on VP 415.

 

[suffolkowner]

So we’ve got 10xP8+8xP6 and 15xP8+6xP6…I’ll put you in for, say 18xP8+2xP6 for coastal PTTs, EITS?

hold on now I wasnt looking for a P6 just a globaleye or something

How about 18 x P-8s to replace the CP-140's and then we convert all 16 of the planned CC-295's into the MPA version that is already in service.

Then we can buy 16 x C-27J's that will actually work for the SAR role.

A guy can dream can't he???

why would we switch to a C27J one crappy aircraft for another isnt an improvement if we are rededicating the C295 we should replace them with the C130J IMO

 

[GR66]

why would we switch to a C27J one crappy aircraft for another isnt an improvement if we are rededicating the C295 we should replace them with the C130J IMO

No direct knowledge of the C-27J but from what I've read it was the only aircraft bid that met the original specs.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I think the operating cost concerns were why we replaced the H Hercs and Buffs with 'something smaller'. But, I agree - based on speed and payload ability vice cost/hour of flying.

Maybe my memory is failing (more than I'm aware of...) but IIRC the SOR for FWSAR stated a +311kts cruise speed capability...that was ignored.

 

[GR66]

I think the operating cost concerns were why we replaced the H Hercs and Buffs with 'something smaller'. But, I agree - based on speed and payload ability vice cost/hour of flying.

Maybe my memory is failing (more than I'm aware of...) but IIRC the SOR for FWSAR stated a +311kts cruise speed capability...that was ignored.

My understanding is that the 311kts + was in the original SOR but the minimum speed was dropped in favour of something like being able to respond within the AOR in a given time period...which was the basis for Leonardo's challenge because they say that at the C-295's speed they could not respond to calls in the most remote parts of the high Arctic without having to stop for crew rest.

As for the C-130J...they didn't submit a bid for the FWSAR contract. Not sure if there was something specific in the SOR that would have made them non-compliant?

 

[dapaterson]

As for the C-130J...they didn't submit a bid for the FWSAR contract. Not sure if there was something specific in the SOR that would have made them non-compliant?

Any number of reasons not to bid, including not wanting to deal with the client.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Hot refuel capability…

NAVSUP FLCPS "TEAM WHIDBEY" PERFORMS FIRST P-8 HOT REFUEL

Sailors from Naval Supply Systems Command (NAVSUP) Fleet Logistics Center Puget Sound (FLCPS) performed the first-ever “hot” refueling of a P-8 Poseidon Aircraft at Naval Air Station Whidbey Island (NASWI) Jan. 30, demonstrating the capability of a flight line aircraft direct refueling facility...

www.dvidshub.net

 

[suffolkowner]

The US and Australia arent the only one to have problems with the C27J and the G222 had similar problems. I think I read here before that LM didnt submit was based on having to duplicate all the training facilities or something(?)

Anyway just another reason to purchase a platform in use by our allies instead of going are own way

 

[Good2Golf]

How about 18 x P-8s to replace the CP-140's and then we convert all 16 of the planned CC-295's into the MPA version that is already in service.

Then we can buy 16 x C-27J's that will actually work for the SAR role.

A guy can dream can't he???

Gutsy move, Mav, adding P-295s!

So…we’ve got:
• 10-8, 8-6
• 15-8, 6-6
• 18-8, 2-6(-)
• 18-8, 16-295 (and by association 16-27)

 

[YZT580]

Gutsy move, Mav, adding P-295s!

So…we’ve got:
• 10-8, 8-6
• 15-8, 6-6
• 18-8, 2-6(-)
• 18-8, 16-295 (and by association 16-27)

kc390 for SAR. It has the speed, the range, and the turning ability and so far, I haven't read any detrimental comments

 

[Good2Golf]

kc390 for SAR. It has the speed, the range, and the turning ability and so far, I haven't read any detrimental comments

Roger, so you’re in for?

• 18-8, 16-295 (and by association 16-390)

 

[Maxman1]

How about 18 x P-8s to replace the CP-140's and then we convert all 16 of the planned CC-295's into the MPA version that is already in service.

Then we can buy 16 x C-27J's that will actually work for the SAR role.

A guy can dream can't he???

Only if DHC can't make a pressurized turboprop version of the Buffalo.

 

[Dana381]

No but just maybe the CAF wouldn’t be so ducking stupid to buy an orphan micro fleet again.

Upgrades can be done much easier on the P-8, than older aircraft, as it was configured to allow for that.

The P-6 is a theoretical framework at this point. Right now it mounts Jack and Shit.

I mean what could go wrong buying a new unproven design for a relatively puny number of aircraft, the Cyclone is a beacon of effectiveness and efficiency right?

I'm not sure it would be that bad.

PAL has successfully built an MPA from a Dash 8, the P-6 is supposed to use similar systems as the P-4. If the article is right and they get a launch customer it won't be an orphan fleet. I do realize that's a big if.

Bombardier has a global support network, the 6500 is a proven airframe. There are many Global airframes converted for various electronic surveillance missions.

The range (unrefueled) will likely end up being better than the P-8 as the Global 6500 has a 6600nmi range vs the 4050nmi range of the P-8.

The Cyclone is a puzzling bird, how does a company like Sikorsky with such a storied history of building helicopters, including MPA's screw up so badly?

I like the P-8 and it is likely a better fit but I also think PAL is on to something with this P-6 and I wish them luck.