Close Quarter Combat (CQC) [Merged]

[gate_guard]

Geoff,
You‘d probably be interested in the US Marines program for martial arts. Check out the following link:

http://www.defenselink.mil/news/May2001/n05162001_200105161.html

or go to www.marines.com and nav to "warriors" then "martial arts".

 

[Yllw_Ninja]

Anybody have any experience with Muay Thai? I‘ve heard some stuff about it, out of all the martial arts thats the one that clicks with me...and i‘d like to learn it at some point *nods* just wondering how effective it is.

 

[Geoff]

gateguard: cool link.

Muay Thai is pretty tough stuff and very effective. It‘s missing the ground game completely but as a striking art it‘s very effective. Be prepared for lots of swelling and bruising. Very hard to find a good MT school in Canada but if you can go for it.

 

[Yes Man]

Okay, so I have read a little more about what has been written in this topic and here are things that have to be considered. (note I‘m not in the army yet, and I only have a small bit of marshal arts training.)

You can not compare real fights to fights in UFC. There are three major reasons for this...

A) In real life there are no weight classes. That means if a 300lbs infanteer chooses to attack a 160lbs me, I am going to get killed.

B) Real fights are not fought in the ring. The effects of grappling drop rapidly when not fought on flat ground, and even more so when there are objects near by. Now this being the army where there are tons of weapons and other object to strike a person with, taking someone to the ground might not be the best idea.

C) The aspect of surprise is a big one in a fight; this is something that does not happen in UFC when both fights know when they start. If you have the chance to hit someone from behind because you snuck up on them, it is a huge advantage.

Even in a fair fight in a ring there really only seem to be three factors.

A)The size of you opponent.
B)The amount of experience you have in full speed combat. (I find this matters more than the art)
C)The amount of motivation.

Now in the army I imagine motivation would be equal, because it's a fight or die situation. The size of you opponent is something that you can no change. This makes the amount of experience you have in full speed combat the only real factor you can control. For the amount of time and training it would take to get a 130lbs soldier to be able to hold his own against a 250lbs soldier, I think it would not be to practical to teach full courses in hand to hand combat in the army.

This is just my opinion though :rocket:

 

[crhc]

I have have been a Police officer for 12 yrs. I worked alone for almost 4 yrs in a northern community. I have worked with a street drug unit for three years, executing search warrants.I joined CIC a year ago to help keep kids off crack. I have been in a few fights, defending myself from hands, feet, edged weapons, blunt instruments, firearms and viscious animals. I have been shot at half a dozen times, been assaulted several dozen times, been hospitalized twice, but I never lost a fight. ( Thank GOD !!! )

I have had a fair bit of informal training in differnt forms of karate, Philipine martial arts, Aikido and some tactical training with entries, containment and killing active shooters ( non-politcal correct ) this is a good background. But balls to the wall not accepting defeat is what gets you by when the day is done. But remembering your training and knowing how to practically apply it will save your butt. Train like you fight and fight like you train.

I believe that CF members ( whose occupation may take them in a hostile area ( and Police officers )do not get enough training for their own safety. What I mean in firearms training more than a couple times a years and unarmed combat traing more than a couple times a year. This stuff should be instinctive because this saves your life.

 

[tmbluesbflat]

2PPCLI was infiltrated in a rear echelon rest area and fought tooth and nail hand to hand, one cook croaked an enemy with a pot lid, the down and dirty guys live, the rest?

 

[tmbluesbflat]

I forgot to mention this was in Korea at Kap Yong, I‘ve forgotten how to spell it, ****!!!

 

[gate_guard]

Originally posted by Yes Man:
[qb] (note I‘m not in the army yet, and I only have a small bit of marshal arts training.)
[/qb]

That says it all.

 

[winchable]

I‘d still prefer a good old fashioned slogging match in a boxing ring, and I‘ve done a few martial arts (Jiu Jitsu, Karate, Bagua-Zhang, Kendo)

Any other boxers here? Nothing quite like the sweet science when it comes to a brawl.

 

[Franko]

Nothing like beating each other into submission...

Look at Muhamed Ali...a true champ.

Too bad he took one too many shots to the head.

Regards

 

[winchable]

He dragged his career a tad far.

Hopefully I‘ll know when to call it quits.
i ish nawt dain bramaged....

 

[Yes Man]

Originally posted by gate_guard:
[qb]

Originally posted by Yes Man:
[qb] (note I‘m not in the army yet, and I only have a small bit of marshal arts training.)
[/qb]

That says it all. [/qb]

Not to be rude, because I am pretty naive about this stuff, but could you please correct my inaccuracies?

 

[bossi]

Well, since you ask ... it‘s "martial" arts

Martial:
Adjective
1. (of persons) befitting a warrior; "a military bearing".
2. Suggesting war or military life.
3. Or or relating to the armed forces; "martial law".

Etymology: Martial \Mar"tial\, adjective. [French expression, from the Latin expression martialis of or belonging to Mars, the god of war. Compare to March the month.].

Marshal:
Noun
1. A law officer having duties similar to those of a sheriff in carrying out the judgments of a court of law.
2. (in some countries) a military officer of highest rank.

Verb
1. Place in proper rank; of military troops.
2. Arrange in logical order; "marshal facts or arguments".
3. Make ready for action or use; "marshal resources".
4. Lead ceremoniously, as in a procession.

"Marshal" is a name that signifies or is derived from: "a horse", "a servant".


Now, as to the merit of your post and its‘ content - it really didn‘t deserve to be slagged - after all, this is a "discussion" and the presentation of various opinions is encouraged.
But, that‘s just my opinion ...

(and, all I know about hand-to-hand combat is something I was taught a long time ago - if your aim is to kill the other person as opposed to just fighting for fun or sport, they‘ll get the message sooner or later - and, if they‘re not willing to fight to the death, they sometimes decide that fighting you wasn‘t such a good idea ...)

 

[Yes Man]

I stand humbled.

 

[Marauder]

It‘s been mentioned, but remains true nontheless: If you‘re down to just your dukes and Timmy Talibunny without his buddy Kalishnokov, you‘re prolly gonna get ****ed up bad. But if you‘re going down, go down hard. Maximum speed, brutal violence, and unrestrained agression. Take any opening you can and be prepared to get hurt.

On civvy side, the best MMA is Avoid-Fu. Be smart and stay outta situation that could go bad. Like don‘t get dead just because Snake and Ox asked you to stop dancing with their old ladies, and you‘re drunk enough to take exception, and situationally unaware enough to remember you‘re in a biker bar full of Snake and Ox‘s buddies. If that fails and you wind up in the mix, then refer back to speed, violence, agression... you never know what a yahoo who‘s out looking for a fight might be packing. Better tried by twelve, than buried by six, simply because you were worried about Johnny Law when you should have been concerned with the shiv your opponent was carrying and stuck you with after you decided to walk away. If you can‘t avoid the fight or won‘t avoid it, then break the skid and take what comes.

 

[jbeach95]

I take hand-to-hand combat with The Royals Unarmed Combat Team, which was run out of ASU London through 4RCR. It teaches Black Arts, which is a mixture of several techniques. It involved hand-to-hand, hand-to-knife, knife-to-knife, firearm disarming, and sentry takeout.

However, as far as I know, NDHQ and/or brigade HQ wasn‘t too happy us for some reason or another. Eventually, the team was forced to relocate to a place off of the base.

Black Arts Society:
http://www.blackartssociety.com

The Royals Unarmed Combat Team:
http://www.securitytrainingsolutions.com/royals/

 

[a_majoor]

Bringing an old thread back to life:

Martial arts should not be considered as a primary "fighting art", even for the combat arms soldier. As has been pointed out, conditions in the field are very unlike the dojo, and unless practiced constantly, will probably endanger you more than the person you are fighting against.

Martial arts does have a place in the training/PT syllabus, I would argue, for the virtues of teaching focus and concentration. Most martial arts also encourage flexibility and range of motion, which can help prevent injuries at home or work. I currently take Aikido, both open hand and weapons. I enjoy the art and the workout I get, but am not too worried about disarming someone carrying a Katana using Aikido techniques. I am issued firearms for that sort of thing.

 

[JasonH]

If anything if you were to engage hand to hand I'd imagen it to be more of a struggle likely to involve a knife but if it weren't then I'd imagen it be something that'd drop to the ground quick.

Personally when I do get in and have the time I think I'll take up some submission/grappling/wrestling.  As is I already train in boxing and wrestling/Grecko wrestling.  Any fight involving anything outside the sport is most likely to be a kill or be kill, use whatever method to subdue then to land a mortal blow or stab wound.  Best way to do that is to be ontop with a weapon which would involve some sort of wrestling to the ground and submission technique.  That's why you hear martial arts majority of the time unless you're an expert is pretty much useless (say street fight).  Sorry for poor grammar, I'm just writeing what hits me.

-Jason

(P.s. don't take what I say to heart, I'm just a poor gonnabee and nothing more right now).

 

[JBP]

I've been practicing martial arts for about 2.5+years now solidly. I'm a green belt in my type which is Goju-Ryu (Hard-soft) and a "traditional" type of ancient martial arts from WAY back. This originated from a few guys in Okinawa and also originally from Samuri warriors. It's not for modern day combat ops, but if your well versed in it you could sure do some intense damage to someone if you get close enough.

I have the CF Unarmed Combat handbook (Ebook) and the moves from what I can tell ARE effective. If you learn them properly, most people don't even know how to punch properly or to maximum effect believe it or not. I'd say around 60-70% people. I quote that amount because of the way all the new people punch when they first join the Dojo... The moves and style taught by the CF seem to be a mix of boxing and basic grappling/release manuevers. Simple and effective. Of course you shouldn't try Jean-Claude Van Dam stuff if your in full combat gear! A good solid kick and/or punch would start you in the right direction...

You are all correct on one thing, it takes time to become quite proficient at any hand-to-hand combat. The goal is to have the skills ready as a reaction, not a concious action. Example is that they teach boxers (used too) to always fire off a punch every time they are touched/contacted in a fight. Reaction, no thought, make it almost instinct.

In WW1+2 I imagine there was quite abit of hand-to-hand... Being that the battles got quite close and personal back then. Also Iraq now, going house to house I'm sure some of those Marine Hombres have run into a badguy face to face!

Anyway, just my take.

 

[Gouki]

There is a JiuJitsu (non BJJ) club here on base in Shilo.

As far as combat arts in the CF .. the only closest thing I've seen is the Patricias outside their compound practicing unarmed combat twice a week or so (am unsure of their schedule). My friend told me they use a mixture of everything, a fair deal of muay thai, boxing, judo, jiujitsu and whatever else the unarmed combat instructor decided to include.