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CDN/US Covid-related political discussion




It's not how you start.

It's how you finish.
Not if you died in the meantime
 
Not if you died in the meantime
We were talking about missing a few hundred thousand vaccines at the start when we would be getting millions a week near the end.

Those missing vaccines in spring are a rounding error in the grand scheme of things.
 
So Canada has gotten 66 million vaccines, enough to vaccinate everyone over the age of 12 with two doses.

Are you willing to live up to your end of the bargain, and give credit where credit is due?

You bet. Let me go back and confirm the original bet then I'll acquiesce.
 
Hey, I'll give all the credit due to the drug manufacturers who obviously tirelessly upped their game to take our hard-earned borrowed money....
 
Hey, I'll give all the credit due to the drug manufacturers who obviously tirelessly upped their game to take our hard-earned borrowed money....
You could, until you realize that places like Japan and Australia are buying vaccines from those same manufacturers and are nowhere near having enough for their entire eligible population.
 
Found it. So, are all Canadians vaccinated?
Every eligible Canadian who wants to be can be.

So unless your bet included

A)Forcibly rounding up the unvaccinated to vaccinate them

B) Vaccinating those who are not approved, those under 12.

Then by all reasonable standards, yes.
 
Every eligible Canadian who wants to be can be.

"So...mea culpa if everyone is vaccinated by September then?"

Can be is a little different than is.

The government deserves credit for getting 66 million doses into Canada. I'll wait until September 30th to see if everyone in Canada is vaccinated and even throw in the caveat that uninterested parties don't count.
 
"So...mea culpa if everyone is vaccinated by September then?"

Can be is a little different than is.

The government deserves credit for getting 66 million doses into Canada. I'll wait until September 30th to see if everyone in Canada is vaccinated and even throw in the caveat that uninterested parties don't count.
Oh please.

You, me, and the PM has no say in whether vaccines are approved for 12 and under by September.

That's up to health canada and the vaccine manufacturers.

So by all reasonable expectations, every eligible Canadian can get their two doses now.

If you want to get technical and "win" on semantics, fine, have at it.

I will take the fact that you just gave credit to the Feds for getting getting 66 million doses into Canada as a win.
 
There is a lot of concern about giving the vaccine to young kids because this is still considered experimental and nowhere near enough long term testing has been done. While the manufacturers are immune to lawsuits due to deals made with governments, the fallout of a unforeseen long term health implication would still cripple them. Part of the issue is that for Public health you accept the health impacts on a few to save many. However in this day and age, those few have a much larger voice and impact. If you or one of your family is in that small percentage the rest of your life will suck badly. if you have FB you can check this link of people with adverse reactions to the vaccines No More Silence
 
There is a lot of concern about giving the vaccine to young kids because this is still considered experimental and nowhere near enough long term testing has been done. While the manufacturers are immune to lawsuits due to deals made with governments, the fallout of a unforeseen long term health implication would still cripple them. Part of the issue is that for Public health you accept the health impacts on a few to save many. However in this day and age, those few have a much larger voice and impact. If you or one of your family is in that small percentage the rest of your life will suck badly. if you have FB you can check this link of people with adverse reactions to the vaccines No More Silence

Just for clarity's sake, the limited legal immunity you mention is provided by a Declaration under the Public Readiness and Emergency Preparedness (PREP) Act. The Declaration was made 4 Feb 2020 by HHS Secretary Azar.

Despite this immunity, there is relief for those who are severely affected, through the Countermeasures Injury Compensation Program, although I have read that compensation is awarded extremely rarely.

Details here: https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-2020-03-17/pdf/2020-05484.pdf

"The Public Readiness and Emergency Preparedness Act (PREP Act) authorizes the Secretary of Health and Human Services (the Secretary) to issue a Declaration to provide liability immunity to certain individuals and entities (Covered Persons) against any claim of loss caused by, arising out of, relating to, or resulting from the manufacture, distribution, administration, or use of medical countermeasures (Covered Countermeasures), except for claims involving ‘‘willful misconduct’’ as defined in the PREP Act."

"Before issuing a Declaration under the PREP Act, the Secretary is required to determine that a disease or other health condition or threat to health constitutes a public health emergency or that there is a credible risk that the disease, condition, or threat may constitute such an emergency."

"In deciding whether and under what circumstances to issue a Declaration with respect to a Covered Countermeasure, the Secretary must consider the desirability of encouraging the design, development, clinical testing or investigation, manufacture, labeling, distribution, formulation, packaging, marketing, promotion, sale, purchase, donation, dispensing, prescribing, administration, licensing, and use of the countermeasure."

"The PREP Act authorizes the Countermeasures Injury Compensation Program (CICP) to provide benefits to certain individuals or estates of individuals who sustain a covered serious physical injury as the direct result of the administration or use of the Covered Countermeasures, and benefits to certain survivors of individuals who die as a direct result of the administration or use of the Covered Countermeasures. The causal connection between the countermeasure and the serious physical injury must be supported by compelling, reliable, valid, medical and scientific evidence in order for the individual to be considered for compensation."

Obviously, the above relates to the US situation. If I can find Canadian info, I'll post it.
 
Canadian Vaccine Injury Support Program


"All current and future Health Canada authorized vaccines or immunoglobulins that provide protection from preventable infectious disease, administered in Canada on or after December 8, 2020, will be covered under the VISP. This includes vaccines authorized under the Food and Drug Regulations as well as the Interim Order Respecting the Importation, Sale and Advertising of Drugs for Use in Relation to COVID-19."

"A serious and permanent injury is defined as a severe, life-threatening or life-altering injury that may require in-person hospitalization, or a prolongation of existing hospitalization, and results in persistent or significant disability or incapacity, or where the outcome is a congenital malformation or death."

"Eligible individuals may receive income replacement indemnities; injury indemnities; death benefits; coverage for funeral expenses; reimbursement of eligible costs such as otherwise uncovered medical expenses."
 
We were talking about missing a few hundred thousand vaccines at the start when we would be getting millions a week near the end.

Those missing vaccines in spring are a rounding error in the grand scheme of things.
I am sure that most mourning loved ones, parents, grandparents, siblings, would take umbrage at you describing their deaths because of a dearth of vaccines a "rounding error"
 
I am sure that most mourning loved ones, parents, grandparents, siblings, would take umbrage at you describing their deaths because of a dearth of vaccines a "rounding error"
Micro versus macro.

At the individual level, every death is a tragedy.

But when looking at things on a whole, a few hundred thousand of vaccines early on in spring would not have changed the calculus much. Even countries that had a better start had a 3rd wave, and suffered from a lot of deaths.
 
Micro versus macro.

At the individual level, every death is a tragedy.

But when looking at things on a whole, a few hundred thousand of vaccines early on in spring would not have changed the calculus much. Even countries that had a better start had a 3rd wave, and suffered from a lot of deaths.
And you were the one that introduced "semantics" upthread. Hello pot versus kettle.
 
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