Canadian Surface Combatant RFQ

[Rainbow1910]

-Electronic Attack is provided by NULKA -The Nulka active missile decoy is the most sophisticated soft-kill defence system against anti-ship missiles available for the protection of surface warships (stuff in bold is from the Nulka website... take it with salt though the system is quite good, if it was that good though the USN wouldn't need SEWIP Block 3)

The RCN has previously operated NULKA aboard the 280's, although I think we only purchased a few mounts and rotated them through ships going into deployments.

 

[Pelorus]

EW is a field that changes quite rapidly, and I think if there was any subsystem within a naval combat suite that should be eligible for rapid procurement of upgrades outside of our normal policy it's probably EW.

I think one of the big soft benefits we're going to see from going with Aegis is that it's going to force us into alignment with the US. While certainly a double-edged sword, it should hopefully remove some of the PSPC requirements to run independent competitions for subsystems and be forced to integrate the result.

I had no involvement with the FELEX project so could be way off base here, but the integration of non-US sensors into a CANUS-centric combat management system and the workarounds to protect data integrity with software/hardware adaptors between them has always seemed to be a significant challenge for the technicians and engineers. Aegis should hopefully mean that the US can shoulder much of that development risk.

 

[Lumber]

I had no involvement with the FELEX project so could be way off base here, but the integration of non-US sensors into a CANUS-centric combat management system and the workarounds to protect data integrity with software/hardware adaptors between them has always seemed to be a significant challenge for the technicians and engineers. Aegis should hopefully mean that the US can shoulder much of that development risk.

It's actually not. LM has been able to quickly and successfully integrate subsystems (sensors and weapons) from just about every defence contractor out there.

 

[Cloud Cover]

“-Electronic Support provided by AN/SLQ-32(V)6 (SEWIP Block 2) - The SEWIP Block 2 system provides early detection, analysis, and threat warning from anti-ship missiles for surface ships”

I would be surprised if this was not V7 SEWIP Block 3 by the time the second CSC hull is formed up.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

The RCN has previously operated NULKA aboard the 280's, although I think we only purchased a few mounts and rotated them through ships going into deployments.

Nulka always seemed to be a pretty cool system. Sitting on a frigate, I was always a bit jealous of the 280s…

 

[Underway]

“-Electronic Support provided by AN/SLQ-32(V)6 (SEWIP Block 2) - The SEWIP Block 2 system provides early detection, analysis, and threat warning from anti-ship missiles for surface ships”

I would be surprised if this was not V7 SEWIP Block 3 by the time the second CSC hull is formed up.

SEWIP block 3 is an electronic attack capability not an electronic support capability (which is what SEWIP block 2 is). It's a lot more like what RAVEN was supposed to be.

It's also got some significant hull modifications for the bridge wings (muffin tops everyone calls them).

It's actually not. LM has been able to quickly and successfully integrate subsystems (sensors and weapons) from just about every defence contractor out there.

True. CMS330 was designed for that. Can AEGIS do the same? Maybe but the US security restrictions are going to handcuff us on that. Also AEGIS certification is a very... my way or highway process and controlled by the US. They aren't going to adjust certification just because Canada wants to add something new.

Just easier to lay back and think of England.

 

[Czech_pivo]

SEWIP block 3 is an electronic attack capability not an electronic support capability (which is what SEWIP block 2 is). It's a lot more like what RAVEN was supposed to be.

It's also got some significant hull modifications for the bridge wings (muffin tops everyone calls them).


True. CMS330 was designed for that. Can AEGIS do the same? Maybe but the US security restrictions are going to handcuff us on that. Also AEGIS certification is a very... my way or highway process and controlled by the US. They aren't going to adjust certification just because Canada wants to add something new.

Just easier to lay back and think of England.

Any chance of CMS330 continuing to live on in the possible Corvettes to be acquired?

 

[Underway]

Nulka always seemed to be a pretty cool system. Sitting on a frigate, I was always a bit jealous of the 280s…

The esprit de corps the 280 "Ladies" had is still impressive. They are like pilots, crossfitters and vegans. You'll know who sailed on a 280 because they will tell you.

 

[KevinB]

The esprit de corps the 280 "Ladies" had is still impressive. They are like SEALS, pilots, crossfitters and vegans. You'll know who sailed on a 280 because they will tell you.

FIFY

 

[Underway]

Any chance of CMS330 continuing to live on in the possible Corvettes to be acquired?

Anything is possible but there is lots of discussion that Canada may become an Aegis fleet. COMBATSS-21 is the Aegis common source library derived small ship CMS (for the Littoral Combat Ship).

If I had my way we would strip the CPF's of their up to date weapons/sensors and put them on a Canadian Modular Multipmission Corvette and just pay for the hull. All the major work has been done, the equipment is well known through training and its relatively up to date. Basically a Khreef class with CMS 330 and 8 Mk 41 VLS.

 

[Lumber]

True. CMS330 was designed for that. Can AEGIS do the same? Maybe but the US security restrictions are going to handcuff us on that. Also AEGIS certification is a very... my way or highway process and controlled by the US. They aren't going to adjust certification just because Canada wants to add something new.

Just easier to lay back and think of England.

No, not really, and I've heard anecdotally of the Aegis folks getting annoyed with Canada for asking it to. Canada is used to buying whatever piece of kit they want/need and LM integrating it without issue or fuss, but Aegis is more like "you get what we give you".

 

[KevinB]

@Underway I’m assuming the CMS 330 can link to Aegis to allow the Rivers to use CE to manage the battle and use ordnance from the Corvettes?

 

[Lumber]

Any chance of CMS330 continuing to live on in the possible Corvettes to be acquired?

CMS330 lives on aboard CSC as "CTI" (Canadian Tactical Interface". It's CMS 330 in all but name.

Plus, CMS330 lives on in:

The Kiwi's ANZAC class.
The ROCN's new Light Frigate.
The Chilean Type 23.
RCN JSS.
RCN AOPS.
CCG AOPS.

 

[FSTO]

The esprit de corps the 280 "Ladies" had is still impressive. They are like pilots, crossfitters and vegans. You'll know who sailed on a 280 because they will tell you.

You should see the eye rolls when I talk about the steamers. Although the youngsters now think that I'm discussing medieval times.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

You should see the eye rolls when I talk about the steamers. Although the youngsters now think that I'm discussing medieval times.

You were…

I sailed on old PRO, twice. Steam powered…

 

[Underway]

You should see the eye rolls when I talk about the steamers. Although the youngsters now think that I'm discussing medieval times.

super high pitched voice "What's a steamer???"

@Underway I’m assuming the CMS 330 can link to Aegis to allow the Rivers to use CE to manage the battle and use ordnance from the Corvettes?

We can link through Link software, all of NATO can do that. But I think you are refering to CEC? The Aegis cooperative engagement capability core software was originally designed for CMS330 by LMC and Canada allowed them to use it for Aegis. Like all software versions change, but its a goal of CMS330 program to be full integrated. As @Lumber pointed out CMS is still on a lot of ships. There are some legal/ROE considerations for CEC with another nation, but we want the capability, as it makes us very valuable to the USN.

I think CEC is a nice to have not a need to have for Corvettes. The idea behind the corvettes is similar to the Type 31. Go around doing missions by themselves because a warship being in a place is valuable, even if it's not Tier 1 combatant. Having link is a given though, need to share that info.

 

[Underway]

Plus, CMS330 lives on in:
The ROCN's new Light Frigate.

This is new info. Didn't see that anywhere I though they were using a Korean CMS for that ship, or perhaps its sold to a Korean company and they put the right language interface on it?

 

[Czech_pivo]

This is new info. Didn't see that anywhere I though they were using a Korean CMS for that ship, or perhaps its sold to a Korean company and they put the right language interface on it?

ROCN refer's to which countries navy?

 

[Lumber]

ROCN refer's to which countries navy?

Taiwan.

 

[Lumber]

This is new info. Didn't see that anywhere I though they were using a Korean CMS for that ship, or perhaps its sold to a Korean company and they put the right language interface on it?

Taiwan to Begin Light Frigate Construction in June - Naval News

Taiwan is set to start construction of two 2,500-ton Light Frigate in June following a contract awarded to a local shipbuilder this month.

www.navalnews.com

According to local reports, the Taiwanese Navy selected Lockheed Martin Canada‘s CMS-330 as the Combat Management System for the Light Frigate, the same system found on the current Arctic and Offshore Patrol Ship as well as the future Canadian Surface Combatant and Joint Support Ship of the Royal Canadian Navy.

Taiwan Starts Construction of New Light ASW Frigate - Naval News

On 16 January 2024, the Taiwanese state news agency CNA reported that construction of the Taiwanese navy’s new light frigate, which specializes in anti-submarine warfare, has begun.

www.navalnews.com

The ROC Navy’s light frigates will be equipped with CMS-330 Combat Management System, BAE ARTISAN radar, 76mm cannon, TC-2N SAMs, HF-3 ASMs, Phalanx Close-In Weapon System and S-70C ASW helicopters.