Canada/US Border Integrity Thread

[OldSolduer]

I can’t speak for others, but I go to work each day and have skin in the game. Offhand I know of several others here who do too. Sitting back and hoping is not a luxury universally enjoyed.

Hope is not a plan.

Anyways - about American capitalism etc and how the US will take us over economically etc....we had these exact same conversations in the 70s.

The more things change.....etc

 

[Halifax Tar]

I'm a big believer in American capitalism also, but if we were ever in some kind of official union with the US we would have to confront & change some things such as food safety

There would be some obvious changes to the way our local governments were structured/operated, some good & some bad - but one of the biggest changes would be the subtle domestic things we'd be faced with changing for them to be accepted

For example - the quality of food in American supermarkets is overall a lesser quality than Canadian supermarkets.

We've all seen videos of people who bought fruit that turns out to be...odd.

The recent banning of certain food dyes in foods is a step in the right direction, as is banning putting fluoride in the water.



Or supplement companies that have 2 manufacturing lines for the same product - One for the American consumer, and one for the Canadian consumer (the American product including ingredients that are banned in Canada)


As much as I like the freedoms that would come from having the Constitution as our general legal framework, being able to elect our judges, being allowed to elect our senators (if we still had a senate) - I do NOT trust the relationship that exists between corporations & governments.

Some things would have to be addressed before I could really jump on board.

RFK is going to tackle a lot of this

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

You mean, he will send us all the American vaccines?

 

[Halifax Tar]

You mean, he will send us all the American vaccines?

No idea. But I do know he wants to tackle the proliferation of processed and unhealthy foods in America.

If he can do that, it would be a good a thing.

 

[Remius]

No idea. But I do know he wants to tackle the proliferation of processed and unhealthy foods in America.

If he can do that, it would be a good a thing.

That’s the tragedy of RFK. He does actually have great ideas. Too bad his other ideas are bat shit crazy.

If the Trump administer goes after vaccines, Canada should try and fill that void and regain its strategic production capacity.

Opportunities.

 

[brihard]

While I agree somewhat, I doubt Trump cares about our foreign student problem. That's trudeau's fault 100% and is just one of the many damaging programs PP will have to deal with. It's the terrorist problem, that according to the article, is worse than that of the US southern border. That is what we need to get a handle on to satisfy the GOP.

I don't know much about fentanyl smuggling but if I had to guess the Chinese triads are getting the precursor chemicals, mixing them and running most of it out of BC. Weed is also a big smuggled product out there. Ontario and Quebec have the reservations to contend with.

There are a couple components. Trump only cares about his problems, not ours. Absolutely. He’s worried about Canada as a source of terrorist risk.

In some cases, terrorist threats come from born and raised Canadians. That’s not an immigration problem. Patrik Matthews for instance.

In other cases, someone enters Canada first, and later enters or attempts to enter the U.S. with intent to commit terrorism. This is where measures to better control our immigration can matter. For example, the man in custody
After being arrested in Quebec this summer allegedly came in on a Student visa, per news articles.

This is even more true for non-terrorist crime, which he is also concerned about.

We have domestic reasons for working to curb excess or fraudulent immigration. We also have ‘soothe Trump’ reasons to do it.

 

[Good2Golf]

We have domestic reasons for working to curb excess or fraudulent immigration. We also have ‘soothe Trump’ reasons to do it.

This. The problem is that it has been crafted into a counter-Trump issue, when for the past decade, it’s really been a Canada needs to get its foreign interference/fraudulent banking/immigration misuse problems house in order. Have to hand it to Team Red…great job demonizing a target that plays along with the underlying effort to keep the at home issues in the dark.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

I'm a big believer in American capitalism also, but if we were ever in some kind of official union with the US we would have to confront & change some things such as food safety

There would be some obvious changes to the way our local governments were structured/operated, some good & some bad - but one of the biggest changes would be the subtle domestic things we'd be faced with changing for them to be accepted

For example - the quality of food in American supermarkets is overall a lesser quality than Canadian supermarkets.

We've all seen videos of people who bought fruit that turns out to be...odd.

The recent banning of certain food dyes in foods is a step in the right direction, as is banning putting fluoride in the water.



Or supplement companies that have 2 manufacturing lines for the same product - One for the American consumer, and one for the Canadian consumer (the American product including ingredients that are banned in Canada)


As much as I like the freedoms that would come from having the Constitution as our general legal framework, being able to elect our judges, being allowed to elect our senators (if we still had a senate) - I do NOT trust the relationship that exists between corporations & governments.

Some things would have to be addressed before I could really jump on board.

I would like to see a return to the pre-911 border world with additional relaxations. Two countries/one border, no passport requirements, etc. This would mean letting DHS in and establishing some sort of joint operating & cooperation framework between DHS & Public Safety Canada.

It would also mean Canada would need to spend significantly more money than it does currently to satisfy American expectations and would need to buff up Military spending, National Security spending, etc.

The issues you discuss could be worked through and are not insurmountable. Some of the issues you mentioned also wouldn't be applicable as this is an economic union, not a political union.

I can’t speak for others, but I go to work each day and have skin in the game. Offhand I know of several others here who do too. Sitting back and hoping is not a luxury universally enjoyed.

I've got tremendous amounts of skin in the game. Most of the product I ship, goes to the United States.

 

[brihard]

I would like to see a return to the pre-911 border world with additional relaxations. Two countries/one border, no passport requirements, etc. This would mean letting DHS in and establishing some sort of joint operating & cooperation framework between DHS & Public Safety Canada.

It would also mean Canada would need to spend significantly more money than it does currently to satisfy American expectations and would need to buff up Military spending, National Security spending, etc.

The issues you discuss could be worked through and are not insurmountable. Some of the issues you mentioned also wouldn't be applicable as this is an economic union, not a political union.

Allowing U.S. law enforcement to enforce U.S. laws on Canadian soil comes with numerous challenges to sovereignty, as well as to compliance with the Charter. Any such approach would need a lot of very careful work to set parameters to protect Canadians’ rights on Canadian soil.

I've got tremendous amounts of skin in the game. Most of the product I ship, goes to the United States.

Absolutely you do. My reply was in the context of answering a remark about “people here that don’t seem willing to do anything but moan and complain”. My reply was not to suggests that only people working in law enforcement, defense, security and intelligence ‘have skin in the game’, but rather to point out that the positions we’re taking here on a discussion board are not, for some of us, our only involvement in the myriad issues in play. Sorry if it read otherwise and ruffled feathers.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Allowing U.S. law enforcement to enforce U.S. laws on Canadian soil comes with numerous challenges to sovereignty, as well as to compliance with the Charter. Any such approach would need a lot of very careful work to set parameters to protect Canadians’ rights on Canadian soil.

Agreed but there are some things that I agree with the Trump Administration on. The Opiate Crisis/War on Drugs for instance. I'm about at the point where I think we should be unleashing the dogs of war on anyone involved in the drug trade. And if they wanted to find willing volunteers to partake in a campaign, I'd put my hand up for that. It would actually be something that would be worthwhile.

So I would welcome some American intervention on certain issues over the current situation in Canada.

Absolutely you do. My reply was in the context of answering a remark about “people here that don’t seem willing to do anything but moan and complain”. My reply was not to suggests that only people working in law enforcement, defense, security and intelligence ‘have skin in the game’, but rather to point out that the positions we’re taking here on a discussion board are not, for some of us, our only involvement in the myriad issues in play. Sorry if it read otherwise and ruffled feathers.

The tariffs are going to collapse some industries. Everyone should be looking for a way to work with the incoming administration.

 

[Good2Golf]

Allowing U.S. law enforcement to enforce U.S. laws on Canadian soil comes with numerous challenges to sovereignty, as well as to compliance with the Charter. Any such approach would need a lot of very careful work to set parameters to protect Canadians’ rights on Canadian soil.

I can’t speak for every aspect of such relationships, but much exists already. A ‘few’ years back, there was a case where DEA Black Hawks crossed the border and handed off to RCAF assets well north of the border. Everything went smoothly and no one got their face in a knot with a decently armed UH-60 in Canadian airspace for a few hours until it went home….after a poutine-fest at YSC airport.

 

[daftandbarmy]

I can’t speak for every aspect of such relationships, but much exists already. A ‘few’ years back, there was a case where DEA Black Hawks crossed the border and handed off to RCAF assets well north of the border. Everything went smoothly and no one got their face in a knot with a decently armed UH-60 in Canadian airspace for a few hours until it went home….after a poutine-fest at YSC airport.

The 'real' reason for the visit

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Agreed but there are some things that I agree with the Trump Administration on. The Opiate Crisis/War on Drugs for instance. I'm about at the point where I think we should be unleashing the dogs of war on anyone involved in the drug trade. And if they wanted to find willing volunteers to partake in a campaign, I'd put my hand up for that. It would actually be something that would be worthwhile.

Can I get a Hallelujah?? Into the meat grinder for all.....

 

[Czech_pivo]

Agreed but there are some things that I agree with the Trump Administration on. The Opiate Crisis/War on Drugs for instance. I'm about at the point where I think we should be unleashing the dogs of war on anyone involved in the drug trade. And if they wanted to find willing volunteers to partake in a campaign, I'd put my hand up for that. It would actually be something that would be worthwhile.

So I would welcome some American intervention on certain issues over the current situation in Canada.


The tariffs are going to collapse some industries. Everyone should be looking for a way to work with the incoming administration.

Need to treat the 'War on Drugs' as an actual war, with the intent of eliminating the enemy to the point that they are unable to continue the fight. I don't see how the US can continue to allow Mexico to get off so lightly in terms of their continued inability to address their systematic drug problem. As for us, individuals involved in the drug trade should be labeled 'enemy combatants' and treated accordingly.

 

[Remius]

A few US SOF types on Joe Rogan saying that going to war with the cartels would be a mess.

They are well armed. Mexican gvt and agencies are likely severely compromised and there are cartel types in country that could easily change their drug distribution model into a bomb distribution model.

Ever watch Rome? Ceaser knew he’d never be rid of the crime culture in Rome so he put a guy in there to keep it controlled.

Not sure if that’s the right approach but if you can’t fight the supply side you might get more results on the demand side.

Something tells me that fighting what would become an insurgency on its own soil would not be a good idea.

 

[QV]

Compounding this problem is the fact every day Mexicans are so embedded in the drug network from production to distribution. It's a whole of community effort in many parts of that country. For many It's their only way to make a living.

Still, I say do it.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Need to treat the 'War on Drugs' as an actual war, with the intent of eliminating the enemy to the point that they are unable to continue the fight. I don't see how the US can continue to allow Mexico to get off so lightly in terms of their continued inability to address their systematic drug problem. As for us, individuals involved in the drug trade should be labeled 'enemy combatants' and treated accordingly.

Penalties have to be severe enough that it scares people. If a person sells, makes, transports illegal drugs it should start with (just spitballing) say an automatic 20 years. No parole, no ifs, ands or buts. No judicial discretion. Increase it in blocks of 5 years based on the severity of the case. A low level street dealer gets 20. A person caught with more than a certain amount gets 25, 30 or 35 depending. Build the penitentiary above the tree line.

As far as Mexico, I think Trump is going to designate the cartels as terrorist organizations. It could allow them to change the way they go after those groups.

We'll see. Monday is in the headlights and it's going to be a busy day.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

A few US SOF types on Joe Rogan saying that going to war with the cartels would be a mess.

They are well armed. Mexican gvt and agencies are likely severely compromised and there are cartel types in country that could easily change their drug distribution model into a bomb distribution model.

Ever watch Rome? Ceaser knew he’d never be rid of the crime culture in Rome so he put a guy in there to keep it controlled.

Not sure if that’s the right approach but if you can’t fight the supply side you might get more results on the demand side.

Something tells me that fighting what would become an insurgency on its own soil would not be a good idea.

You can't combat them by ignoring them and turning a blind eye. Sometimes you have to get dirty and break some eggs.

I can't fathom any government appointing a drug czar to co--ordinate and keep it controlled among the cartels. The Great Caesar notwithstanding and March on the doorstep.

 

[Czech_pivo]

A few US SOF types on Joe Rogan saying that going to war with the cartels would be a mess.

They are well armed. Mexican gvt and agencies are likely severely compromised and there are cartel types in country that could easily change their drug distribution model into a bomb distribution model.

Ever watch Rome? Ceaser knew he’d never be rid of the crime culture in Rome so he put a guy in there to keep it controlled.

Not sure if that’s the right approach but if you can’t fight the supply side you might get more results on the demand side.

Something tells me that fighting what would become an insurgency on its own soil would not be a good idea.

Every year it is allowed to continue it will be become more and more ingrained in society and more and more accepted by the people. This should have been dealt with harshly and effectively 30yrs ago when the game moved from Colombia to Mexico. It moved because of the clamp down Colombia and the US enforced.

 

[dimsum]

A few US SOF types on Joe Rogan saying that going to war with the cartels would be a mess.

They are well armed. Mexican gvt and agencies are likely severely compromised and there are cartel types in country that could easily change their drug distribution model into a bomb distribution model.

Ever watch Rome? Ceaser knew he’d never be rid of the crime culture in Rome so he put a guy in there to keep it controlled.

Not sure if that’s the right approach but if you can’t fight the supply side you might get more results on the demand side.

Something tells me that fighting what would become an insurgency on its own soil would not be a good idea.

It would make Afghanistan seem like a cakewalk.