CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018
- Thread starter Proud Canadian
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Just to illustrate how ridiculous this whole issue is from all sides, I overhead this (paraphrased) conversation today at supply.
Mechanic: I need new boots the steel toe cup cuts into my toes.
Supply tech: try this wider size.
M: the boot is wider but the toe cup is the same size.
S: what do you mean?
M: see how the boot is wide here and then narrows down at the toe?
S: Well that's stupid.
M: without steel toed boots I can't work on the shop floor....
Mechanic: I need new boots the steel toe cup cuts into my toes.
Supply tech: try this wider size.
M: the boot is wider but the toe cup is the same size.
S: what do you mean?
M: see how the boot is wide here and then narrows down at the toe?
S: Well that's stupid.
M: without steel toed boots I can't work on the shop floor....
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Maintainer doesn't have boots that fit to work safely. Supply tech frustrated he can't help provide those boots.
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If it's something like a systemic issue, a consistant failure they need to know. The problem is 4000 people have this "cup and toe" issue, 3 people actually put up a UCR. They see 3 issues and say "That's pretty darn good - we nailed it!"
You can't fix a broken wheel until you know it's broken. We need to submit UCRs, AARs... i don't know - get creative. But someone other than the Cpl supply tech who's only job is to put your feet in a tray and say 265/104 needs to know. And not just "Jeez it sucks..." but "This boot does not fit here, here and here. This is what it does when I do this, this and this..."
You can't fix a broken wheel until you know it's broken. We need to submit UCRs, AARs... i don't know - get creative. But someone other than the Cpl supply tech who's only job is to put your feet in a tray and say 265/104 needs to know. And not just "Jeez it sucks..." but "This boot does not fit here, here and here. This is what it does when I do this, this and this..."
Eye In The Sky
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When we return something to you folks at supply, is there anywhere in the 'system' where it is recorded 'why' I am returning it? I have 0 knowledge on your system so...
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Eye In The Sky said:
"Scrap" or "Serviceable" and that's about it. UCR is for noting the specifics of failed/below standard kit.
Even if the system went beyond "scrap", there's not enough bods in Ottawa to sit back and analyse any of that data - they can hardly keep up with issuing contracts and re-supplying uniforms to the shelves let alone tracking stuff that should be UCRd by the members for whom the kit failed.
George Wallace
Army.ca Dinosaur
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Having high arches, my solution to boots that gave me blisters on the tops of my feet, was quite simple: I did not cross my laces over the top of my arch. I ran the laces up the sides of the boot at my arch for those two pairs of eyelets. Problem solved.
Oldgateboatdriver
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Binrat55, I fail to see what the number of UCR has to do with anything.
I can guarantee you that if I return a single gun, or diver's air tank, or breathing apparatus with a UCR report, the "system" takes a serious look at the item and tries to figure out why it became the object of a UCR, and if its is a systematic problem, a recall or fix will be found for all the similar items in the system.
Why should it be different for items like boots? One UCR? Fine: What is the problem -the steel cap as designed cuts into people's toes when they walk with it. Issue a recall and have boots with a redesigned steel cap issued. How hard is this?
I can guarantee you that if I return a single gun, or diver's air tank, or breathing apparatus with a UCR report, the "system" takes a serious look at the item and tries to figure out why it became the object of a UCR, and if its is a systematic problem, a recall or fix will be found for all the similar items in the system.
Why should it be different for items like boots? One UCR? Fine: What is the problem -the steel cap as designed cuts into people's toes when they walk with it. Issue a recall and have boots with a redesigned steel cap issued. How hard is this?
Eye In The Sky
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Roger...I was thinking along the line of for items that require a UCR, the system could track "UCR required"...so it could keep track of the # of returned items that "should" have had a UCR submitted.
Then the item manager could say "ok, so the system saw 1346 widgets returned, 57% of those were flagged "UCR required" with a total of...zero UCRs submitted".
If 'we' aren't doing our part, that part of it needs to be fixed. I've done UCRs before, heck they aren't that difficult.
* UCR question - is it normal for UCR to be submitted by each mbr? Is it normal, or at the very least, acceptable, to do a 'general submission' UCR on an item for a whole unit?
Then the item manager could say "ok, so the system saw 1346 widgets returned, 57% of those were flagged "UCR required" with a total of...zero UCRs submitted".
If 'we' aren't doing our part, that part of it needs to be fixed. I've done UCRs before, heck they aren't that difficult.
* UCR question - is it normal for UCR to be submitted by each mbr? Is it normal, or at the very least, acceptable, to do a 'general submission' UCR on an item for a whole unit?
Eye In The Sky
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Oldgateboatdriver said:
;D
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Oldgateboatdriver said:
Actually it does because for clothing they go for the 80% solution/satisfaction.
When they only receive 2 or 3 UCRs ... the teams in Ottawa think they're doing pretty darn good n'est pas?
Also, avoid doing "mass" UCRs - such as 1 Unit submitting a UCR on "X" pairs of failed boots. They do get looked at, but at the end of the day, it still looks like "1" UCR to those who just pull up the total listing and is mostly judged as "well, it's not an important enough issue for the troops to bother doing UCRs".
As for the steel toed cap with 1 UCR; why issue a recall? It's one UCR for the thousands of pairs of them out there. Is it really an issue with all the caps? One guys non-standard feet? or a manufacturing flaw that affected just 1 pair? A single UCR doesn't answer that all-important question.
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Eye In The Sky said:
UCRs are found on the DWAN; each Unit is supposed to have a UCR co-ordinator. It is the persons for whom the kit fails who is supposed to submit the UCR on that particular kit. They don't.
Those that do, know that their UCR is visible and trackable throughout it's processing. I can tell the troops a million times at the front counter to do a UCR ... I can't make them do it. And, for the most part - they don't. Hmmmmm.
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Jarnhamar said:
You are a leader in the CAF I believe. Look up the ref (because I've posted it in this very thread) and you'll find your answer to your question. Then, you'll be able to impart this knowledge to your subordinates as leaders do. How many times do you want me to do it for you? Knowledge is power. Pass it along.
Eye In The Sky
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ArmyVern said:
Roger that. I was just curious; while deployed last year, I know there was at least 2 "unit" UCRs done up on a particular piece of kit (Air force DCBs). I saw both of them and I know they were entered into the system, but had never seen or heard of a single UCR submitted on behalf of a 'unit' before. I was wondering if, in hind site, it would have been better if each individual would have done a separate UCR vice the 'consolidated one' that was drafted/submitted.
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Vern, BinRat55, OldGateBoatDriver
What do we do when UCR's are submitted (in largish numbers) but multiple units; for example as a result of an EX; but they never make it to the system? I have my own (Tinfoil Hat) guess where they went but what can we do when people figure it's better to protect their reputation or their Kingdom than actually fix the problem?
I know that I filled out to 2 UCR's at the end of November. One each for both versions of the new LOTB. I also know that close to 50 troops on the Ex went back to non-issue boots (myself included) rather than return/exchange the LOTB they had. SWATS, Magnums and Rocky's became the boots of choice.
From what BinRat55 says up thread there are less than 5 - 10 UCR's on the LOTB in the system. Two of them should have my name on them describing what failed, what I was doing when they failed.
What do we do when UCR's are submitted (in largish numbers) but multiple units; for example as a result of an EX; but they never make it to the system? I have my own (Tinfoil Hat) guess where they went but what can we do when people figure it's better to protect their reputation or their Kingdom than actually fix the problem?
I know that I filled out to 2 UCR's at the end of November. One each for both versions of the new LOTB. I also know that close to 50 troops on the Ex went back to non-issue boots (myself included) rather than return/exchange the LOTB they had. SWATS, Magnums and Rocky's became the boots of choice.
From what BinRat55 says up thread there are less than 5 - 10 UCR's on the LOTB in the system. Two of them should have my name on them describing what failed, what I was doing when they failed.
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