Bigger army

[WogCpl]

All have good points, but mine is, what good is a bigger army if you have no airlift, or even a ship to project your force?

 

[Young KH]

But I am having fun. And you guys are talking but if My ideas are so wrong Please set me right with better ideas Please I want and need to know how the ARMY can be (fixed is not the right word) bettered.

But to set all of you to tasks I have mentioned that my knowledge is at best TV News and can only draw from my time in the Army witch was more then a few years ago. All the information in the world will not make me think that it was a good idea to get out of tanks or to cut the ground troops back to where they sit now. So all the giving me heck for lack of fact is great but meaningless if all you have is fact and no suggestions. Or am I wrong in thinking that no one can dispute that the numbers of Infantry are too low for the tasks at hand.

Sorry if I made anybodies blood pressure go up but sometimes you have to shake it up a bit to get answers.

 

[aesop081]

But I am having fun. And you guys are talking but if My ideas are so wrong Please set me right with better ideas Please I want and need to know how the ARMY can be (fixed is not the right word) bettered.

But to set all of you to tasks I have mentioned that my knowledge is at best TV News and can only draw from my time in the Army witch was more then a few years ago. All the information in the world will not make me think that it was a good idea to get out of tanks or to cut the ground troops back to where they sit now. So all the giving me heck for lack of fact is great but meaningless if all you have is fact and no suggestions. Or am I wrong in thinking that no one can dispute that the numbers of Infantry are too low for the tasks at hand.

Sorry if I made anybodies blood pressure go up but sometimes you have to shake it up a bit to get answers.

I'de be realy currious to hear what YOUR solution would be.  Its one thing to think that the ARMY should be bigger but what are your specifics ?  Troop numbers, equipment, units, training .......

Maybe if you proposed something intelligent that doesnt involve slagging the other services, i might give you some credit.  So far all i have seen from you is ranting based on nothing more than personal bias, news reports and uneducated retoric.

Ball's in your court.....

 

[WogCpl]

No apoligies req'd. Canada needs to beef up it's airforce big time. A larger army would be great, but it needs to be able to go places, even if it is only across the country. My answer for now is we need to master the basics, work with what we have, and be able to project it and support it effectively. That goes for all trades, now that the SQ is in, the army troops need to continue praticing the skills learned on their soldiers qualification so that all members of the army have at least a worikng knowledge of basic soldiering skills, be a soldier first so to speak. but try selling that to the civies in uniform. Being a Wog is not a trade or a posting, it's a state of mind!!!!

Quality not Quantity!!

 

[Young KH]

OK

My believes are:

Infantry to increase to pre 1960 numbers. Support to increase as needed
Armored corps to have Tanks again, type unknown.
Navy to have Transport capacity for troops and equipment.
Airforce to have Transport planes for troops and equipment.

Coast Guard to be increased to the point where they can take over coastal watch/ Air and sea rescue.

No granted this is very simplistic and without any tec facts but as you can see I am not proposing any cuts to anyone.
When I was in the Army I felt that there were not enough postings, however the tasks that the modern army is being asked to do seem (YES TO ME) to be a bit over whelming and in my opinion does not leave enough room for error on the home front.

I don't feel that this is radical and I do believe that with double figures billons of budget surpluses that it is doable. So shot me.

 

[KevinB]

We NEED $ - more than more bodies training is at an all time low IMHO - we may be more capable but that is gadget reliant not basic skill sets.

FWIW I think our INF (as an INF) is not at an unreasonable deployment level (if anything its low)

Just look south for a lesson on how to endure hardships...

 

[aesop081]

OK

My believes are:

Infantry to increase to pre 1960 numbers. Support to increase as needed
Armored corps to have Tanks again, type unknown.
Navy to have Transport capacity for troops and equipment.
Airforce to have Transport planes for troops and equipment.

Coast Guard to be increased to the point where they can take over coastal watch/ Air and sea rescue.

No granted this is very simplistic and without any tec facts but as you can see I am not proposing any cuts to anyone.
When I was in the Army I felt that there were not enough postings, however the tasks that the modern army is being asked to do seem (YES TO ME) to be a bit over whelming and in my opinion does not leave enough room for error on the home front.

I don't feel that this is radical and I do believe that with double figures billons of budget surpluses that it is doable. So shot me.

Rather lame attemp at making your point.

 

[Young KH]

Well aesop081

At least it was an attempt lame or not.

Training would come on its own if there were enough people to train and run the courses full time. Right now (and again this is not from personal experience's) the troops are complaining that they don't have the time for training in advanced courses. What with their normal training, postings, some personal life and leave there isn't enough time to go around.(Their words not mine)

 

[Old Sweat]

Having said earlier than I am not very knowledgeable about the current army, I will now prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt. It seems to me that as a first step we should aim to bring units up to a proper war establishment, which in the case of the infantry would be four rifle companies per battalion. I would also like to see the CSS world separate base and field functions, eg a base establishment and a service battalion as two distinct units.

It may be that this is in the works. If so, good.

As a next step, I would like to see a bunch of smart folks design a structure to maintain two deployed battlegroups, perhaps with a brigade headquarters, in a hostile environment for a protracted period. With this as an objective there no doubt would be a number of solutions, which then could be war-gamed.

 

[Young KH]

Having said earlier than I am not very knowledgeable about the current army, I will now prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt. It seems to me that as a first step we should aim to bring units up to a proper war establishment, which in the case of the infantry would be four rifle companies per battalion. I would also like to see the CSS world separate base and field functions, eg a base establishment and a service battalion as two distinct units.

It may be that this is in the works. If so, good.

As a next step, I would like to see a bunch of smart folks design a structure to maintain two deployed battlegroups, perhaps with a brigade headquarters, in a hostile environment for a protracted period. With this as an objective there no doubt would be a number of solutions, which then could be war-gamed.

Nicely put, and Thank you.

 

[KevinB]

Young KH,

Who are these phantom voices?  The troops tell you... which troops? 
I am HERE to tell you what troops want at least from my perspective as a 031 Cpl.

Training - more of it, and more innovative an relevant.

REAL Missions - which we now have.

What more could and Infantryman want - but a chnace to train and then DO.

Sure we could use many things - but fiscal reality is we will never have a Carrier Airwing or a Nuclear Sub Fleet let alone a 1 Cdn Army force.  You seem to be from the HRDC mindset of lets through money and bodies at it - well we have neither - so we need a force structure that works - your ideas are starrey eyed and rose coloured.

Stick in the here and now.  Half the units around WASTE tons of money on bullshit rental vehcile for brass etc can drive in style - or waste thousands in sloppy excercises with no clear point (like validating yourself on doctrine you've designed  :).  Or getting a Officer with no shmick trying to teach urban ops rather than qualified urban ops instructor NCO's.  Proving himself and his chain that put him there RTFO.

Stick that in your too PC pipe and smoke it.

I'm tuning you into ignore mode until you have something worthwhile, and I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Young KH]

Young KH,

Who are these phantom voices?   The troops tell you... which troops?  
I am HERE to tell you what troops want at least from my perspective as a 031 Cpl.

Training - more of it, and more innovative an relevant.

REAL Missions - which we now have.

What more could and Infantryman want - but a chnace to train and then DO.

Sure we could use many things - but fiscal reality is we will never have a Carrier Airwing or a Nuclear Sub Fleet let alone a 1 Cdn Army force.   You seem to be from the HRDC mindset of lets through money and bodies at it - well we have neither - so we need a force structure that works - your ideas are starrey eyed and rose coloured.

Stick in the here and now.   Half the units around WASTE tons of money on bullshit rental vehcile for brass etc can drive in style - or waste thousands in sloppy excercises with no clear point (like validating yourself on doctrine you've designed   :).   Or getting a Officer with no shmick trying to teach urban ops rather than qualified urban ops instructor NCO's.   Proving himself and his chain that put him there RTFO.

Stick that in your too PC pipe and smoke it.

I'm tuning you into ignore mode until you have something worthwhile, and I'm not holding my breath.

hehehehehehehehehe not so nicely put but also valad. Nice to see some opinions now.

 

[muskrat89]

If that browns people off, Tough, learn to live with it.

My mistake, but it sure seems at times that there are no one out there with any opinions and when someone dares to make one, that there are hundreds of Snippers waiting to pick any statement word by word instead of looking at the content, and what was actually meant.

So, which one is it?  ???

 

[Gunner98]

Before we decide how big we need to be, we need control over our commitments.  The new security policy and the new CDS are well on the road to establishing some parameters. Parameters which have been absent or fuzzy since 1994.

If we tried to return to war establishment numbers we would quickly run out of money for uniforms and equipment to support them.  Heaven for bid we appear to the global community as building up forces to fight a war. 

Service Battalion, General Support Battalions, Base, Area Support Units - who cares, the Bases merely provide infrastructure support that allows COs and Bde Comds to concentrate on training troops and not worrying about the mundane things like waste management, heating and repairs to roads and grounds. 

After 20+ years of wishing for more bullets and more troops, I am one for letting the CDS shake out his new structure.
 
I notice from your profile that you list the Young Star House - should we infer from that that you are counselor looking for people at Army.ca to whip into shape?  Young Star House is a licensed children's residence facility under the Ministry of Community and Social Services, and an open detention and custody facility under the Ministry of Corrections of Ontario.

Have you met Bruce in your travels, he has a baton for you.

 

[Young KH]

Young Star House - - - -  still own it but haven't worked there for many years. An Agent Orange thing (enough Said)

But we are not allowed to whip anyone in to shape any more then the Sgt (and this is on experience) were allowed in the early 70's heck they weren't even allowed to use bad words in a loud manner. Sort of took the boot out of Boot Camp.

Never Met Bruce but he might as well keep his batton.

 

[paracowboy]

I am HERE to tell you what troops want at least from my perspective as a 031 Cpl.

and I'll add mine as a 031.

Training - more of it.. more innovative and relevant.

yep

REAL Missions - which we now have.

most of all. To go out and do the damn job!

Half the units around WASTE tons of money on bullshit rental vehcile for brass etc can drive in style - or waste thousands in sloppy excercises with no clear point (like validating yourself on doctrine you've designed ).  Or getting a Officer with no shmick trying to teach urban ops rather than qualified urban ops instructor NCO's.

and this sort of fiscal irresponsibility is found in every unit across the nation, at every level.

You've said on (I think) a couple different threads that troops have told you they want a break. What troops? From where? Speaking for 3 VP, we're desperate to go. Any-friggin'-where! Troops join for one reason - to do the damn job. All the crap we do in Canada is just practicing. The job is out there.

 

[KevinB]

. All the crap we do in Canada is just practicing. The job is out there.

Amen Brother

 

[Young KH]

Well you asked who said that they are over worked.

Quote "Mr. McCallum said he can't impose a 100 per cent bilingualism requirement on a military that is already overworked and overstressed from repeated overseas deployments."

Or is he uninformed too?

 

[KevinB]

100% bilingualism of the CF would be a collosal waste of $.

It would take FOREVER to run us all thru the year long french course, and for what value added (to military capability) ?

ZERO

I dont need to speak perfect french (I can get by spoken - well for beers and women   ) to do my mission - CLOSE WITH AND DESTROY THE ENEMY.

Now realisitcally a better value added would be to get 10% of the Army speaking Arabic, and Pashtu or Dari.


BTW - before you said troops...  I would say a Minister was about as far out in left field from the troops as possible... I would say it was less uninformed and more of a realisist wrt my comments above.

 

[Old Sweat]

With all due respect, and I don't doubt your sincerity, that statement is several years old and perhaps no longer relevent.