Thank you to all. I am on edge. Currently in Afghanistan, kinda hard to get some things done. But will be home for HLTA soon and am going to make time to get done what I have to.
Congrats to all others in my shoes. Hope to meet you all soon.
Billy
Congrats to all others in my shoes. Hope to meet you all soon.
Billy
A
aesop081
Guest
HFXCrow said:
attention all new folks.....doesnt apply to you !!!
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First, my apologies for digging up an old thread, but several posts here mentioned talks of AESOp being opened to recruits. I'm curious if anything came (or might be coming soon) from these talks. The gentleman at CFRC Halifax hadn't heard of MOC 081 (I wouldn't necessarily expect him to be familiar with a remuster only trade) but a new fiscal year is almost upon us so April 1 seems a likely time to any changes to arrive. Perhaps someone has heard a rumor that may keep AESOp at the top of my short list.
I'm not trying to reopen an old debate but it does seem silly for me to be choosing a trade with the idea of OT'ing within 48 months. That being said, if it comes to this is there any MOC in particular that may provide experience most easily translated into the AESOp occupation?
p.s. - I haven't heard the roar of an Aurora over my store in Yarmouth so I'll assume that CDN Aviator is grounded and will replying shortly....I'm putting on my barkskin vest so fire away
I'm not trying to reopen an old debate but it does seem silly for me to be choosing a trade with the idea of OT'ing within 48 months. That being said, if it comes to this is there any MOC in particular that may provide experience most easily translated into the AESOp occupation?
p.s. - I haven't heard the roar of an Aurora over my store in Yarmouth so I'll assume that CDN Aviator is grounded and will replying shortly....I'm putting on my barkskin vest so fire away
A
aesop081
Guest
Pistos said:p.s. - I haven't heard the roar of an Aurora over my store in Yarmouth so I'll assume that CDN Aviator is grounded and will replying shortly....I'm putting on my barkskin vest so fire away
Thats because i dont fly in that part of the world...........And i did fly today
Direct entry into the trade from civvy street is coming but the process is slow going. maybe this year, maybe not.....watch and shoot.
A
aesop081
Guest
Pistos said:
The trades takes people from ANY trade in the CF. I came from an MOC as far removed from the air force as it gets. I had no quals or direct related experience.
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My suggestion is choose a trade you are interested in, then apply for AES Op through the COTP program. Why wait for them to decide when they are going to start taking from the street?
With my VERY limited exposure to the AES Op training system, I do not see any advantage to any specific trade giving anyone a leg up on the Basic AES Op Course. I think it all comes down to the individual and how dedicated they are.
With my VERY limited exposure to the AES Op training system, I do not see any advantage to any specific trade giving anyone a leg up on the Basic AES Op Course. I think it all comes down to the individual and how dedicated they are.
A
aesop081
Guest
HFXCrow said:
Theres no advantage to it. Ex-NESOPs have done just as good and just as poorly as people with no background. They may have a few courses that transfer over but those are pre-reqs for jobs that are not highly sought after in the AES Op trade.
A
aesop081
Guest
HFXCrow said:
I knew nothing of radar and EW and i did very well on BAC. My lack of background was corrected by a few hours reading books. Besides, you get taught everything you need to know in Winnipeg. The fact that folks originating from combat arms MOCs do very well on the course and in the trade tells me that there is no advantage to coming in as a former NES Op. The individuals personal motivation and ability to do 3 things at once are , IMHO, the biggest factors.
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CDN Aviator said:
And if you still didn't get it you got a bigger hammer ;D
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Then I guess you could add sonar types to list of having a "one" up on people in the AES Op trade. Its all fine and dandy to have a little something in your back pocket, but that doesn't mean anything if you don't pass BAC. IMHO there is no specific trade that will give you an advantage on BAC, and getting through that first step (first of many) is a tough one.
Check ride tomorrow.... ;D
Check ride tomorrow.... ;D
Lots of good advice already. For one, pick a trade YOUR going to enjoy. Who knows, you may not want to remuster, and if you pick a trade you enjoy, your more likely to excel at it. Thus if you still want to remuster you can get a great write up. AES op seems to take people from all trades, they want motivated people. Can't speak for Army trades,as i was only reserve Infantry many years back. But for navy (was Nciop for 9 yrs) Any of the operation room trades are good, nesop (esm) Tasops--or what ever their name is now (sonar) and Nciop (radar) Nciop probably gives one a bit more rounded view as they nibble in all warfares. But it really doesn't matter, as you will get trained on all the equipment by great instructors!! So keep an open mind and find a trade that you will enjoy and go from there
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flames9 said:
Definitely good advice there, and not just for the reasons already stated. You will be in your trade for 4 years before you can remuster and there is no guarantee that you will get it first try. So you don't want to be sitting around doing something that you are not even remotely enjoying or learning at.
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Thanks for the replies all! I wish my affairs were in order now and I could get on with this but by September I plan to be merit listed for an NCM position; if by then AES Op is open to recruits then all the better. I have at least a few months (and, more likely, quite some time) to determine if this would be the best trade for me and my family.
Am I correct in understanding that under the COTP program I would be able to submit an application to OT to AES Op even if my current trade is red and otherwise locked? Figure it's better to be straight on this point while my options are still wide open.
And yes, I have every intention of thoroughly enjoying and excelling at whatever trade I find myself in!
Again, thank you all - I'll resume lurking again until another unanswered question surfaces.
Am I correct in understanding that under the COTP program I would be able to submit an application to OT to AES Op even if my current trade is red and otherwise locked? Figure it's better to be straight on this point while my options are still wide open.
And yes, I have every intention of thoroughly enjoying and excelling at whatever trade I find myself in!
Again, thank you all - I'll resume lurking again until another unanswered question surfaces.
Eye In The Sky
Army.ca Legend
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Pistos,
All COTP applications now go thru ISS (In-Service Selection) in Borden. If you can find the CFRG DIN site, you can find all the info and reg's for ISS and COTP numbers. You can put your application forward for COTP and get a good write up in Part 5 of the application by your CO, and nail the interiew but there are OUTCAP numbers for each trade, based on the 'health' of the trade. Health of trades is defined as Green (less than 5% below PML and up) Amber (10% - 5% below PML) and Red (greater than 10% below PML). PML = Preferred Manning Level. For each FY, ISS gets PML and TES (Trained Effective Strength) numbers from each Career Manager shop that they use to calculate the OUTCAP numbers. I would have to go and check the ISS site for the newest info, but basically the OUTCAP numbers are based on the TES and PML numbers, for each trade. Follow me so far? Ok. Now, for a trade that is Green, 2% of that trade is the OUTCAP number, or the amount of people allowed out of that trade thru the various programs, excluding Officer generating ones IIRC correctly. Amber trades have a 1% OUTCAP number, and Red trades have a 0.5% OUTCAP number. It is important to note this...and is written specifically into the policies governing COTP...even if a trade is Red, that trade is NOT locked out for COTP applicants. Again, this is all on the ISS DIN site.
So...as an example, lets say Widget Tech has a PML of 1000, and a TES of 970. That would make them a Green trade (3% below PML). Green MOCs are allowed to OT out 2% of the TES...so 2% of 970 would be 19.4 people allowed to OT out.
Why is this? Because in the past, CMs did not want to loose people so they just locked their MOCs up. They can't do it anymore, but IAW what I said above, ISS does limit how many people can OT out of a trade each FY based on a formula using the MOC TES, PML and the MOC 'health'.
As for a COTP application, if you submit it, your CoC has to fwd it on to the BPSS/PSO office. They cannot stop it unless you do not meet the requirements laid out in the COTP msg itself (education, time in, if you are on C & P, etc). If you meet the prereq's, they must fwd it on, after the CO signs Part 5 of the application (where he/she gets to make his/her comments and/or recommendations). Even if you bomb the PSO interview, they are required to fwd the application to ISS. It is there that the file will/will not be selected, by a Selection Board, for the MOC(s) you are applying for COTP for that FY.
One specific requirement for AES Op that you must meet is Part III of the application, where you must do the Aircrew Part I and II medical, which is alittle more involved than a normal Part I and II, including the Cyclo eye exam. Once you pass all the medical stuff, Part III of your application has to signed off "fit potential aircrew" by the Doctor before the PSO office will even look at your file. Now, after that, your medical file will be sent to AMUB in Toronto, where it will be assessed and you will be assigned your Air Factor, which must be a 2 for AES Op. If you are applying, start your medical stuff now and get your AF asap, if your AF is not assessed at a 2, you are out of the pile regardless of anything else. As for whether or not AES Op will be accepting applicants right off the street, they aren't now, there appears to have been talk about this years ago and its not happening yet despite the fact that they are reasonably below PML (like 20%). I wouldn't hold my breath on that, but thats just me. I can tell you, that the 2008 COTP msg did allow for use of Reserve time if there was no break in service and it was continuous (ie Class B or C) time for the time in requirements of 48 months.
A good starting point for info on Remustering for Reg Force NCMs is CFAO 11-12. Basically for COTP, you have to have your QL4, 48 months of service and have a good record. Even if you are still a Pte, you can apply for COTP if you meet all the other requirements. Its all in the CFAO.
http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/admfincs/subjects/cfao/011-12_e.asp
Hope that helps some...if you have a Forces account and want me to send you the links to the ISS site, let me know.
All COTP applications now go thru ISS (In-Service Selection) in Borden. If you can find the CFRG DIN site, you can find all the info and reg's for ISS and COTP numbers. You can put your application forward for COTP and get a good write up in Part 5 of the application by your CO, and nail the interiew but there are OUTCAP numbers for each trade, based on the 'health' of the trade. Health of trades is defined as Green (less than 5% below PML and up) Amber (10% - 5% below PML) and Red (greater than 10% below PML). PML = Preferred Manning Level. For each FY, ISS gets PML and TES (Trained Effective Strength) numbers from each Career Manager shop that they use to calculate the OUTCAP numbers. I would have to go and check the ISS site for the newest info, but basically the OUTCAP numbers are based on the TES and PML numbers, for each trade. Follow me so far? Ok. Now, for a trade that is Green, 2% of that trade is the OUTCAP number, or the amount of people allowed out of that trade thru the various programs, excluding Officer generating ones IIRC correctly. Amber trades have a 1% OUTCAP number, and Red trades have a 0.5% OUTCAP number. It is important to note this...and is written specifically into the policies governing COTP...even if a trade is Red, that trade is NOT locked out for COTP applicants. Again, this is all on the ISS DIN site.
So...as an example, lets say Widget Tech has a PML of 1000, and a TES of 970. That would make them a Green trade (3% below PML). Green MOCs are allowed to OT out 2% of the TES...so 2% of 970 would be 19.4 people allowed to OT out.
Why is this? Because in the past, CMs did not want to loose people so they just locked their MOCs up. They can't do it anymore, but IAW what I said above, ISS does limit how many people can OT out of a trade each FY based on a formula using the MOC TES, PML and the MOC 'health'.
As for a COTP application, if you submit it, your CoC has to fwd it on to the BPSS/PSO office. They cannot stop it unless you do not meet the requirements laid out in the COTP msg itself (education, time in, if you are on C & P, etc). If you meet the prereq's, they must fwd it on, after the CO signs Part 5 of the application (where he/she gets to make his/her comments and/or recommendations). Even if you bomb the PSO interview, they are required to fwd the application to ISS. It is there that the file will/will not be selected, by a Selection Board, for the MOC(s) you are applying for COTP for that FY.
One specific requirement for AES Op that you must meet is Part III of the application, where you must do the Aircrew Part I and II medical, which is alittle more involved than a normal Part I and II, including the Cyclo eye exam. Once you pass all the medical stuff, Part III of your application has to signed off "fit potential aircrew" by the Doctor before the PSO office will even look at your file. Now, after that, your medical file will be sent to AMUB in Toronto, where it will be assessed and you will be assigned your Air Factor, which must be a 2 for AES Op. If you are applying, start your medical stuff now and get your AF asap, if your AF is not assessed at a 2, you are out of the pile regardless of anything else. As for whether or not AES Op will be accepting applicants right off the street, they aren't now, there appears to have been talk about this years ago and its not happening yet despite the fact that they are reasonably below PML (like 20%). I wouldn't hold my breath on that, but thats just me. I can tell you, that the 2008 COTP msg did allow for use of Reserve time if there was no break in service and it was continuous (ie Class B or C) time for the time in requirements of 48 months.
A good starting point for info on Remustering for Reg Force NCMs is CFAO 11-12. Basically for COTP, you have to have your QL4, 48 months of service and have a good record. Even if you are still a Pte, you can apply for COTP if you meet all the other requirements. Its all in the CFAO.
http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/admfincs/subjects/cfao/011-12_e.asp
Hope that helps some...if you have a Forces account and want me to send you the links to the ISS site, let me know.
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Thanks for the very informative post Eye the in Sky. I'll not worry about being locked out of a COTP and focus on enjoying and excelling at my chosen trade for the first 48 months or so of my military life. I fear that the delay I'm facing in taking the first steps has given me too much time to fret about steps that are securely in the future. [initiating corrective mentality....beginning to chill]
Cheers
Cheers
