A Deeply Fractured US

[brihard]

I'm just gonna throw it out there and suggest that, whether with our without due process, any talk of killing politicians as a course of action makes this thread stupider.

 

[kkwd]

I'm just gonna throw it out there and suggest that, whether with our without due process, any talk of killing politicians as a course of action makes this thread stupider.

You're talking about a thread where people give their opinion and just don't understand why everybody else doesn't agree with it.

 

[kkwd]

Does anyone know what the lesson is?

They cleaned it up in the official White House transcript. They have to do that a lot, I guess they go through the written speech and suss it out from there. I can't figure out the benefit of messing with women though.
WH Transcript

And when we do that, we’ll teach Donald Trump a valuable lesson: Don’t mess with the women of America unless you want to get the benefit. (Applause.)

 

[CBH99]

OMG! Im SOOOOO sorry! You guys said "executed". My BAD! Totally not even remotely similar.

Apology accepted

"Probably because most of us don't think mass executions of politicians are appropriate? Kind of a slippery slope don't you think?

We also try to avoid extreme hyperbole, if that's really what this is. Do you really think Biden should be assassinated? Fuck democracy, and all that?"

There, is that better? jfc...

So mass assassinations would probably put us on a slippery slope to somewhere, that's why mass executions was suggested...but we've already gone over that jk jk

Our current system of checks & balances has failed us. It isn't the systems fault. It's that the system was designed and built by people who inherently meant well, who assumed (perhaps naively, which I don't fault them for) that our political leaders would always be looking out for what's in our general best interest.

But these systems of accountability & checked and balances have been thwarted, and are now practically mocked by the petty idiots calling themselves leaders today.

(Hence how we ended up with an Ethics Commissioner that doesn't have the power to do anything other than wag a finger... Traditionally, if someone was found guilty under the Ethics Act, they would resign...but Trudeau learned early on he isn't required to resign...and the Ethics Commissioner has no legal authority to do anything but wag that finger.)

So what we are left with is a system that is in desperate need of an overhaul. But the powers that are benefiting most from this corruption are the last people who will order such an overhaul, nor ensure the much needed changes actually get implemented.



When a politician deliberately and knowingly does things or implements things that are opposed overwhelmingly by the citizenry, that isn't in the best interest of the citizenry, that they know will deliberately harm the citizenry, or just be inherently bad for the country, they need to be held accountable.

And when an elected leader does commit treason (the Criminal Code definition of treason should also be updated, to reflect more modern methods of how treason can be committed) then the accountability needs to be severe...



I agree with you that assassinating/executing politicians is a very dangerous slippery slope, and puts us in the same boat as some shithole 3rd world countries.

But I am all for these leaders to be held extremely accountable, face real consequences & accountability for what they do, and be forced to lead by example.

And when someone voted into office makes it clear that they genuinely want to destroy the country in whatever way they can, and choose to steer the country in a direction that is starkly the opposite of what that country has traditionally tried to stand for...that country needs to have the legal mechanisms required to hastily remove that person from power, and the checks & balances to go with it.

Otherwise we end up in a situation where it is illegal for us to remove a leader who blatantly breaks the law in serious ways with the express intent on hurting us as a country.



The idea that a country doesn't have the legal mechanisms in place to hastily remove from power people in its government that have made it clear that they intend to destroy that very country is asinine...

(But that's a whole convo for another thread I imagine. Maybe a Canada 2.0 discussion at some point?)

 

[TacticalTea]

Listen, the arguments are very simple.

A government's primary duty is to protect its people and preserve its way of life.

If you forego the protection of your border, abandon control of immigration, and allow millions of foreigners to vote and thus subvert your democracy, this is functionally the same as letting an invading army take over your country.

Which would be - and thus is - treason.

You've intentionally failed in your primary duty.

---

As for Trump, it's clear at this point that he's intentionally manufactured a "rigged election" story in anticipation of his 2020 defeat, and attempted to leverage that story to deny the country a peaceful transition of power.

In other words, an attempted coup. Sedition.

 

[KevinB]

Listen, the arguments are very simple.

A government's primary duty is to protect its people and preserve its way of life.

If you forego the protection of your border, abandon control of immigration, and allow millions of foreigners to vote and thus subvert your democracy, this is functionally the same as letting an invading army take over your country.

Which would be - and thus is - treason.

You've intentionally failed in your primary duty.

---

As for Trump, it's clear at this point that he's intentionally manufactured a "rigged election" story in anticipation of his 2020 defeat, and attempted to leverage that story to deny the country a peaceful transition of power.

In other words, an attempted coup. Sedition.

How does one serve justice when everyone is guilty?

I have no interest in a civil war, I’ve seen enough death and destruction in other countries to want it to come to America, (or Canada too).

But I’m also disgusted with Politicians who forget their role, and instead of serving the nation, use it as a trough to get rich from foreign and domestic influencers.

There should be severe consequences for that, and for some of the most egregious crimes, they should be executed for treason.

Not random violence - but investigation by impartial sources, then tried by judge and jury - and if guilty beyond reasonable doubt, well they get what they deserve.

Public hanging at the Capitol would be my preferred option mainly to remind other Politicians to no stray from the path of righteousness.

 

[Halifax Tar]

How does one serve justice when everyone is guilty?

I have no interest in a civil war, I’ve seen enough death and destruction in other countries to want it to come to America, (or Canada too).

But I’m also disgusted with Politicians who forget their role, and instead of serving the nation, use it as a trough to get rich from foreign and domestic influencers.

There should be severe consequences for that, and for some of the most egregious crimes, they should be executed for treason.

Not random violence - but investigation by impartial sources, then tried by judge and jury - and if guilty beyond reasonable doubt, well they get what they deserve.

Public hanging at the Capitol would be my preferred option mainly to remind other Politicians to no stray from the path of righteousness.

Its up to the people. They can go quietly into the night or they can stand up and demand better.

Right now they are too concerned with the Kardashians and Tiktok.

Bread and circuses my friend.

But...

 

[QV]

How does one serve justice when everyone is guilty?

I have no interest in a civil war, I’ve seen enough death and destruction in other countries to want it to come to America, (or Canada too).

But I’m also disgusted with Politicians who forget their role, and instead of serving the nation, use it as a trough to get rich from foreign and domestic influencers.

There should be severe consequences for that, and for some of the most egregious crimes, they should be executed for treason.

Not random violence - but investigation by impartial sources, then tried by judge and jury - and if guilty beyond reasonable doubt, well they get what they deserve.

Public hanging at the Capitol would be my preferred option mainly to remind other Politicians to no stray from the path of righteousness.

That all makes sense except the highlighted no longer exists. Who's fault is that?

 

[Brad Sallows]

As for Trump, it's clear at this point that he's intentionally manufactured a "rigged election" story in anticipation of his 2020 defeat, and attempted to leverage that story to deny the country a peaceful transition of power.

In other words, an attempted coup. Sedition.

To be fair, Biden's made similar claims when it looked like he wasn't going to get exactly the voting bills passed that he wanted.

 

[Retired AF Guy]

Well that didn't take long! The jury in Donald Trumps defamation trial have already brought in their decision: $83.3 million in damages.

Link

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Well that didn't take long! The jury in Donald Trumps defamation trial have already brought in their decision: $83.3 million in damages.

Link

There are a large number of egregious problems with the proceedings and the judge of this trial. I'll leave that for the appeal.

However, I'm not going to get involved in the defence of Trump against the bunch of Never Trumpers here. I don't have the time or inclination.

Suffice to say, I expect another bump in the polls for him. The court of public opinion will decide.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Biden was in Wisconsin, using a foreign language

 

[TacticalTea]

There are a large number of egregious problems with the proceedings and the judge of this trial. I'll leave that for the appeal.

However, I'm not going to get involved in the defence of Trump against the bunch of Never Trumpers here. I don't have the time or inclination.

Suffice to say, I expect another bump in the polls for him. The court of public opinion will decide.

2016 GOP Primary

2024 GOP Primary

Pre-2020 Favorability

Post-2020 Favorability

Highest favorability in 3 years (at 43%, that's higher than his presidency average of 42%), total dominance in GOP primary, vastly more so than in 2016.

In conclusion, my prognostic is the same as that for 2020: absent an act of God, Trump will win the election. (An act of God did happen in 2020, the Pandemic.)

 

[TacticalTea]

Republican Governors Band Together, Issue Joint Statement Supporting Texas’ Constitutional Right to Self-Defense

WASHINGTON, D.C. – 25 Republican governors released the following joint statement in support of Texas Governor Greg Abbott and Texas’ constitutional right to self-defense. The statement comes as the Biden Administration continues to attack Texas and refuses to take action or responsibility for...

www.rga.org

Joint statement by 25 Republican governors.

Previous fence-sitters now standing with Texas: NH, AK, MO, IA, LA, NV, NH, WY, WV

 

[brihard]

Republican Governors Band Together, Issue Joint Statement Supporting Texas’ Constitutional Right to Self-Defense

WASHINGTON, D.C. – 25 Republican governors released the following joint statement in support of Texas Governor Greg Abbott and Texas’ constitutional right to self-defense. The statement comes as the Biden Administration continues to attack Texas and refuses to take action or responsibility for...

www.rga.org

Joint statement by 25 Republican governors.

Previous fence-sitters now standing with Texas: NH, AK, MO, IA, LA, NV, NH, WY, WV

Pun intended?

 

[Lumber]

I finally figured out Biden's strategy. It's genius (albeit dangerous and has the potential to cause long lasting damage to the country).

Recently I asked on here what Biden had to gain by allowing this border crisis to spiral. It only seemed to give the Republicans more political ammunition.

Well, consider this first: the US southern border has ALWAYS been an issue. When you are the rich "land of opportunity" with a large difficult to secure border that is adjacent to dozens of poor countries, you're going to have a level of illegal immigration higher than most places in the world. Republicans know this, and they love using the border it as a cudgel to win political points over Democrats. However, Republicans being the dishonest opportunists they are never wanted to actually solve the border crisis. Any meaningful changes during the Biden administration would be nothing more than a win for Biden, and this strategy works because they know in reality the level of illegal immigration (while higher than they might want) poses very little actual danger to the fundamental fabric of the country. There simply wasn't a real crisis, and Republicans knew it.

Biden wants Ukraine aide. Republicans want border reform in exchange, except they really don't; they just want to keep using the border as a political tool.

So, how does Biden get around this? He turns the border into an ACTUAL crisis, so much so that not even Machiavellian Republicans would dare obstruct legitimate efforts to fix it.

https://x.com/POTUS/status/1751044359569490418?s=20

 

[brihard]

I finally figured out Biden's strategy. It's genius (albeit dangerous and has the potential to cause long lasting damage to the country).

Recently I asked on here what Biden had to gain by allowing this border crisis to spiral. It only seemed to give the Republicans more political ammunition.

Well, consider this first: the US southern border has ALWAYS been an issue. When you are the rich "land of opportunity" with a large difficult to secure border that is adjacent to dozens of poor countries, you're going to have a level of illegal immigration higher than most places in the world. Republicans know this, and they love using the border it as a cudgel to win political points over Democrats. However, Republicans being the dishonest opportunists they are never wanted to actually solve the border crisis. Any meaningful changes during the Biden administration would be nothing more than a win for Biden, and this strategy works because they know in reality the level of illegal immigration (while higher than they might want) poses very little actual danger to the fundamental fabric of the country. There simply wasn't a real crisis, and Republicans knew it.

Biden wants Ukraine aide. Republicans want border reform in exchange, except they really don't; they just want to keep using the border as a political tool.

So, how does Biden get around this? He turns the border into an ACTUAL crisis, so much so that not even Machiavellian Republicans would dare obstruct legitimate efforts to fix it.

https://x.com/POTUS/status/1751044359569490418?s=20


View attachment 82707

He’s put Congressional republicans in a tricky bind with this offer. It’s a good deal with a lot of what they want. Against that they have a Trump & Co. working back channels to try to block Biden achieving a border deal because it would help Biden in the election. O the republicans currently in Congress have to explain why they aren’t taking a pretty compelling deal, or alternatively have to rebuff Trump. Skillful move by Biden.

 

[Quirky]

Biden was in Wisconsin, using a foreign language

What an embarrassment. Get this guy into a care home stat.

 

[Brad Sallows]

The "bipartisan Senate border negotiations" are the usual sham.

Laws already exist to block, detain, and deport illegals. Those laws are not being enforced. The foundation for believing that more laws are a solution is...what, exactly?

"And if given that authority, I would use it the day I sign the bill into law" is essentially "I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today" (the "hamburger" being the foreign aid funding that is part of the negotiation). Republicans have been repeatedly burned by Democrats by accepting phased deals. It's why the Charlie Brown-Lucy-Football meme is often trotted out to summarize such negotiations.

Just enforce current law rigorously for a couple of years. Then see whether any new legislation is needed.

 

[PMedMoe]

Yeah, because Trump has always been perfectly intelligible.