A Deeply Fractured US

[dimsum]

They'd likely handle it the same way they did when that democrat nut went after Judge Kavanagh, egged on by the left. Further reading of the article would show you she's been arrested and charged, in accordance with the law. Can you show me where blame was put on the alleged "Biden Crime Family Deep State" for her arrest. I seem to have missed that part.

We really need that sarcasm emoji.

Yes we do, since my comment was sarcastic to begin with.

 

[FJAG]

We have a plan!!!

Canada has 'game plan' if U.S. takes far-right, authoritarian shift, Joly says

Canada is watching next year's presidential elections closely, says Foreign Affairs Minister Melanie Joly

nationalpost.com

 

[TacticalTea]

We have a plan!!!

Our only option:

Surrender.

Unless, by "far right, authoritarian" shift she meant somewhat common sense policies she disagrees with, and not actual imperialistic fascism. Who knows. I honestly don't.

 

[brihard]

Reading the actual article, I don’t see anything particularly outlandish. Our government has always had to contend with varying possible electoral outcomes to the south, which can have very different impacts on us. I’m not surprised to hear that our government has concerns around potential authoritarian shifts, trade isolationism, disruption of previously stable military alliances, etc. We can be sure Global Affairs is gaming out how this could go whichever party wins.

Global Affairs Canada has its own intelligence apparatus, and gathers information overtly within foreign nations in order to help feed Canada’s knowledge on what other countries are doing and intend to do. Personally I’d be bloody disappointed if we didn’t think forward on stuff like this.

 

[TacticalTea]

Reading the actual article, I don’t see anything particularly outlandish. Our government has always had to contend with varying possible electoral outcomes to the south, which can have very different impacts on us. I’m not surprised to hear that our government has concerns around potential authoritarian shifts, trade isolationism, disruption of previously stable military alliances, etc. We can be sure Global Affairs is gaming out how this could go whichever party wins.

Global Affairs Canada has its own intelligence apparatus, and gathers information overtly within foreign nations in order to help feed Canada’s knowledge on what other countries are doing and intend to do. Personally I’d be bloody disappointed if we didn’t think forward on stuff like this.

I was hoping Trump's election in 2016 would result in more transformational change in Ottawa. Guess it didn't last long enough.

 

[Good2Golf]

We have a plan!!!

Canada has 'game plan' if U.S. takes far-right, authoritarian shift, Joly says

Canada is watching next year's presidential elections closely, says Foreign Affairs Minister Melanie Joly

nationalpost.com

Authoritarian….So we’ll treat them more partner-like, as we do for China, then?

 

[Blackadder1916]

We have a plan!!!

 

[Brad Sallows]

I could wish people understood what "authoritarianism" is and how far the US actually is from it. Also, when measuring the criteria, being realistic about which faction is constantly proposing reforms to turn the legislative and judicial branches into rubber stamps for the executive (provided they control the executive) and is most successful at exerting extra-political control of the institutions of government via the bureaucracy.

The people prattling about imminent "authoritarianism" in the US have approximately the same intellectual credibility as every other conspiracy theorist and fear-monger.

 

[Good2Golf]

I could wish people understood what "authoritarianism" is and how far the US actually is from it. Also, when measuring the criteria, being realistic about which faction is constantly proposing reforms to turn the legislative and judicial branches into rubber stamps for the executive (provided they control the executive) and is most successful at exerting extra-political control of the institutions of government via the bureaucracy.

The people prattling about imminent "authoritarianism" in the US have approximately the same intellectual credibility as every other conspiracy theorist and fear-monger.

But America IS authoritarian…they were welding people inside apartment buildings during COVID!


Oh wait, sorry…that was another government…one that some of Canada’s own cabinet ministers are colluding with elements of the autocracy…

 

[brihard]

I could wish people understood what "authoritarianism" is and how far the US actually is from it. Also, when measuring the criteria, being realistic about which faction is constantly proposing reforms to turn the legislative and judicial branches into rubber stamps for the executive (provided they control the executive) and is most successful at exerting extra-political control of the institutions of government via the bureaucracy.

The people prattling about imminent "authoritarianism" in the US have approximately the same intellectual credibility as every other conspiracy theorist and fear-monger.

Which is why I used the more precise language “authoritarian shifts”, to capture the nuance of incremental changes. The US is, of course, 50 different states plus a federal jurisdiction, and any of those may be subject to policies creeping one way or another. This tangent in the conversation emerged more specifically from a reference to women’s bodily autonomy rights in some states, which is a very real and currently evolving problem since the USSC ruling. There is absolutely a visible trend of some states flexing their legislative muscles so as to impose ideological views on some people, with the full force of criminal law curbing some rights women previously possessed and have seen regress. There’s nothing wrong with calling that what it is.

 

[Retired AF Guy]

They could go to hand counted, hand marked paper ballots. No machines. Just counters and scrutineers.

And probably the system most susceptible to vote rigging.

 

[mariomike]

This tangent in the conversation emerged more specifically from a reference to women’s bodily autonomy rights in some states, which is a very real and currently evolving problem since the USSC ruling. There is absolutely a visible trend of some states flexing their legislative muscles so as to impose ideological views on some people, with the full force of criminal law curbing some rights women previously possessed and have seen regress. There’s nothing wrong with calling that what it is.

Don't know how many young American women readers we have, but this may, or may not, be of interest on the subject of young American women voters,

06/30/2023

Republicans have a young woman problem

www.politico.com

In the 2022 midterms, young women broke hard for Democratic candidates. According to CNN exit polling, 72 percent of women between the ages of 18-29 voted Democratic in house races nationwide, compared to 26 percent of young women who voted for Republicans.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Which is why I used the more precise language “authoritarian shifts”, to capture the nuance of incremental changes. The US is, of course, 50 different states plus a federal jurisdiction, and any of those may be subject to policies creeping one way or another. This tangent in the conversation emerged more specifically from a reference to women’s bodily autonomy rights in some states, which is a very real and currently evolving problem since the USSC ruling. There is absolutely a visible trend of some states flexing their legislative muscles so as to impose ideological views on some people, with the full force of criminal law curbing some rights women previously possessed and have seen regress. There’s nothing wrong with calling that what it is.

It's being done legislatively, following a decision from a court, and it's clear that in some jurisdictions the efforts of governments are motivating people to vote in different governments to get different legislated results. That's not authoritarianism; it's essentially democracy.

All sorts of legislated acts are "flexing legislative muscles to impose ideological views on some people".

"I disagree" isn't the basis for "that's authoritarianism".

 

[TacticalTea]

Which is why I used the more precise language “authoritarian shifts”, to capture the nuance of incremental changes. The US is, of course, 50 different states plus a federal jurisdiction, and any of those may be subject to policies creeping one way or another. This tangent in the conversation emerged more specifically from a reference to women’s bodily autonomy rights in some states, which is a very real and currently evolving problem since the USSC ruling. There is absolutely a visible trend of some states flexing their legislative muscles so as to impose ideological views on some people, with the full force of criminal law curbing some rights women previously possessed and have seen regress. There’s nothing wrong with calling that what it is.

One might take issue with your implied characterization of fetuses as beings devoid of any rights.

There isn't a technical or rational argument that can settle the abortion debate. It comes down to what each individual believes spiritually.

In that sense, it may seem to pro-life folks that allowing people to arbitrarily "murder babies" is more tyrannical and authoritarian than to prevent them from doing so.

As Brad touched on, I believe democracy by the people is vastly superior to governance from the bench.

Don't know how many young American women readers we have, but this may, or may not, be of interest on the subject of young American women voters,

06/30/2023

Republicans have a young woman problem

www.politico.com

Same thing here.




Although here the CPC benefits from the left's division (20% right to 75% left). Even old women (33%) don't vote CPC as much as young men (38%).

 

[FJAG]

As Brad touched on, I believe democracy by the people is vastly superior to governance from the bench.

Just a little reminder as to how quickly a democracy can tumble into a dictatorship when it votes for the wrong guy.

Adolf Hitler's rise to power - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It's interesting that every modern democracy puts a constitution and a judiciary in place to provide a small layer of protection against the tyranny of the masses.

 

[mariomike]

Same thing here.


View attachment 79499

Since you brought Canada into US Politics,

This was posted in Canadian Politics,

In the Sixties, abortion could be legally performed only to save the life of the woman, so there were practically no legal abortions. He stated that the pregnant daughters of the rich were sent to reliable physicians who did abortions for cash. He estimated that these physicians did twenty to thirty abortions per week. Women who were not rich were left to perform an abortion on themselves or go to what he called a "nurse" abortionist. Their method was commonly pumping Lysol into the woman's womb. The mortality rate was high and the infection rate over 50%. He added, "By the time I became Chief Coroner, I had had the unpleasant experience of seeing the bodies of some dozens of young women who had died as a result of these amateur abortions."
Chief Coroner Morton Shulman decided to publicize deaths from illegal abortions. He instructed his coroners to call a public inquest into each abortion death. He describes one case that he believes was the turning point, that of 34-year-old Lottie Leanne Clarke, a mother of three children, who died of a massive infection in 1964 after an illegal abortion in spite of medical treatment and antibiotics. At the inquest into her death, the jury recommended that the laws about therapeutic abortion be revised. Dr. Shulman added that a federal government committee should review the question of abortion and the law. Newspapers published editorials recommending the reform of the abortion law. In 1965, the Minister of Justice, Guy Favreau, wrote to Dr. Shulman that the recommendation would be considered in the program to amend the Criminal Code. The eventual amendment closely followed the recommendations of the coroners' juries.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Just a little reminder as to how quickly a democracy can tumble into a dictatorship when it votes for the wrong guy.

Sure, if it's Germany.

 

[FJAG]

Sure, if it's Germany.

I'm pretty sure that the GIF is of the Galactic Republic.

 

[Brad Sallows]

I'm pretty sure that the GIF is of the Galactic Republic.

Adolf Hitler rose to power in Star Wars? Or did you forget to edit to remove that part?

 

[FJAG]

Adolf Hitler rose to power in Star Wars? Or did you forget to edit to remove that part?

I didn't think that the universality of democratic backsliding was a concept that was that hard to understand.

Here's a Coles notes version.

Democratic backsliding - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Here's the part at the end that I wanted to emphasize:

Effects of judicial independence[edit]​

A 2011 study examined the effects of judicial independence in preventing democratic backsliding. The study, which analyzed 163 nations from 1960 to 2000, concluded that established independent judiciaries are successful at preventing democracies from drifting to authoritarianism, but that states with newly formed courts "are positively associated with regime collapses in both democracies and nondemocracies".[81]