2022 CPC Leadership Discussion: Et tu Redeux

[Colin Parkinson]

Funny under reported is that there is a NDP bleed to PPC and/or CPC. Many union members do not see themselves in the NDP. With the NDP move to urban/young/progressive base. Many have been switching. You see some of it in places like Windsor. The average Unifor worker does not relate to the NDP anymore. Even if they still do the tension on the relationship is greater.

If the CPC had their wits about them, they do a divide and conquer between union workers and union management. Most union workers in the Transportation and construction side want jobs and contracts, The union workers most likley opposed to the CPC will be the clerical and inside workers. Much of the union management I have encountered are socialists of one flavour or another. If the NDP loses most of the union vote, then they are in big trouble as they are the people who will volunteer, donate and vote.

 

[brihard]

Will be interesting to actually see how jumping on the Convoy bandwagon impacts him in his actual riding; it was pretty polarizing in the NCR and immediate communities who were impacted by it. The local MPP is a complete lunatic who also attached himself strongly to the convoy/anti-mandate side and pissed a lot of people off, so might rub off on PP. The balcony guy was pretty representative of a lot of people.

Would be pretty funny if he got all this momentum going within the part and lost his seat. For me he's a lot of hot air and his original ideas like jumping on the cryptobro bandwagon and politically interfering with the BoC are both good reasons to vote against him and reject the style of US populism that he's trying to harness.

The amount of general ignorance of Canadian civics on all sides of the political spectrum is pretty sad though, but when one of the Convoy leaders tried to assert their first Amendment rights during a bail hearing, had to laugh when the judge agreed that Manitoba was in fact part of Canada.

Which MPP are you referring to? PP’s riding isn’t a perfect overlap with provincial. He also partly overlaps a provincial PC riding represented by a wholly unremarkable lawyer currently suspended for misconduct.

 

[Good2Golf]

Which MPP are you referring to? PP’s riding isn’t a perfect overlap with provincial. He also partly overlaps a provincial PC riding represented by a wholly unremarkable lawyer currently suspended for misconduct.

That’s the one, not the ‘lunatic.’

 

[Navy_Pete]

Which MPP are you referring to? PP’s riding isn’t a perfect overlap with provincial. He also partly overlaps a provincial PC riding represented by a wholly unremarkable lawyer currently suspended for misconduct.

Sorry for not being more specific, I was thinking of Randy Hillier (who is no longer the MPP as of June) who was from the Lanark county area vice Carleton Place (vice Goldie Ghamari, the actual MPP for Carleton who is the one with the suspended law license who just got re-elected).

If he hadn't already been kicked out of the PC party in 2019 for making fun of parents of autistic kids, he would have been punted in 2020 for going full conspiracy theory lunatic, or then later in 2021 for encouraging people to flood 911 in Ottawa with nuisance calls during the convoy, or any of the 25 odd criminal charges currently pending against him.

Some really greasy Ottawa area politicians tried to hitch a ride on the convoy; hopefully Counc. Chiarelli finally gets punted next election. Still can't believe the only reason the greasy bastard didn't get fired is that there isn't any legal way to do so under current law, so he only got suspended for 450 days.

 

[Dana381]

Men have been read out of the matter. Maybe that should change, but until it does, "two".

If "we" continue to say two people are affected it will never change.

I can speak from experience that 26 years later it still hits hard.

The fact is three people ARE involved. Whatever opinion someone one may or may not have about the man's place in it, the pregnancy can't happen without him.

I'm not advocating men get legal say. What I am saying is that men are affected and it can have long lasting mental effects. I am in no way downplaying the effects women experience and I believe they need as much support as we can give them.

 

[Eaglelord17]

If the CPC had their wits about them, they do a divide and conquer between union workers and union management. Most union workers in the Transportation and construction side want jobs and contracts, The union workers most likley opposed to the CPC will be the clerical and inside workers. Much of the union management I have encountered are socialists of one flavour or another. If the NDP loses most of the union vote, then they are in big trouble as they are the people who will volunteer, donate and vote.

My union did exactly this. Every election year they vote on which party to donate funds to (I don't agree with donating any union money to political parties but that is besides the point). Last election the members voted to give it to the CPC in spite of the union management wanting it to go to the NDP (it is a Steelworkers Union).

There is a huge opportunity for the Conservatives to seize the blue collar worker vote, on top of the environmental job opportunities they could tap into. Simple option being promoting producing products in Canada as we have and follow environmental controls, don't have to ship it as far thereby reducing the environmental footprint to bring it to market, and it would provide tons of well paying jobs in country which you don't need to have PHD's to get.

That is what a vote winning environmental/economic policy looks like, not just following the Liberals lead with a stupid carbon tax which does nothing to help the workers of this country and is essentially subsidizing the workers of foreign countries.

Vaccine mandates are restrictions on people who aren't vaccinated, vice forced vaccinations, so not at all the same as forcing a woman (or a child) to go give birth (or alternately forced sterilizations).

Functional societies require limits on individual rights for the greater good; people will argue about COVID, but generally slowing/stopping the spread of a severe illness has been common practice for millennia. But now we have modern things like effective vaccines so we don't have to burn plague cities to the ground anymore.

In that line of thought it's still logical to be okay with vaccine mandates (which were in place prior to COVID anyway, just more low key) and be pro choice. No one is forcing anyone to get vaccinated, but there are consequences/restrictions if someone chooses to not get vaccinated for COVID. Similarly, being pro-choice means it's up to the mother to decide if she wants to give birth or have an abortion, and consequences either way for the decision.

As an aside, QC finally removed the cross in the legislative assembly in 2019. It was a weird debate to see people that considered themselves non-religious argue it was part of the heritage. I can get appreciating places of worship for their architecture/artisanry/craftsmanship without being a believer, but an obvious symbol like a crucifix was fairly obviously secular with no inherent artistry.

So basically what you said is we will restrict and punish you if you fail to comply with us, i.e. punishing people for having their body autonomy, which is what the abortion argument centers on, body autonomy. Using the same arguments about saving lives, abortion should be banned as many more potential children are killed, approximately 73 million a year (according to the WHO). Which is substantially more than any amount killed by covid, yet the world is willing to shut down over covid.

It is violating their most sacred right, security of the person. Which if you do not possess that, you have nothing. Taking away their means to work and support themselves because you disagree with their right to decide is inherently evil, especially when alternative options can be adopted with no consequences (i.e. periodic testing, simply not coming into work if they have the symptoms, etc.). I personally am pro-abortion and pro-people making their own decisions about vaccines. At the end of the day they pay the consequences if they get covid and die.

 

[TacticalTea]

Obesity kills millions every year, yet governments, journalists and academics tell you not to say a thing about it otherwise you're a fat-shaming bigot.

Obesity alone, as a comorbidity factor, triples your likelihood to die from COVID.

Yet there isn't a massive national - let alone global - campaign to eradicate obesity. We aren't forcing kids to eat healthy. Aren't pushing them to be more active - instead shoving computer screens in their faces so they stop bothering us, both in and outside of classes -, we aren't mandating an hour of PT for all government workers, we aren't paying for people's access to gyms; we'd closed down the damn things during COVID! Despite being one of the best tools against COVID hospitalization.

But who am I, anyway...

 

[Remius]

It’s funny how some here who are or we’re vehemently against vaccine mandates blame the LPC for everything when the provinces had more say in how it was applied but still voted for Doug Ford and or cheered his victory lol when Ontario had some of the strictest COVID a rules in the world. Simultaneously they cheered when Kenney was deposed despite him having the loosest rules.

For the record I voted for Ford.

 

[lenaitch]

My union did exactly this. Every election year they vote on which party to donate funds to (I don't agree with donating any union money to political parties but that is besides the point). Last election the members voted to give it to the CPC in spite of the union management wanting it to go to the NDP (it is a Steelworkers Union).

There is a huge opportunity for the Conservatives to seize the blue collar worker vote, on top of the environmental job opportunities they could tap into. Simple option being promoting producing products in Canada as we have and follow environmental controls, don't have to ship it as far thereby reducing the environmental footprint to bring it to market, and it would provide tons of well paying jobs in country which you don't need to have PHD's to get.

That is what a vote winning environmental/economic policy looks like, not just following the Liberals lead with a stupid carbon tax which does nothing to help the workers of this country and is essentially subsidizing the workers of foreign countries.

So basically what you said is we will restrict and punish you if you fail to comply with us, i.e. punishing people for having their body autonomy, which is what the abortion argument centers on, body autonomy. Using the same arguments about saving lives, abortion should be banned as many more potential children are killed, approximately 73 million a year (according to the WHO). Which is substantially more than any amount killed by covid, yet the world is willing to shut down over covid.

It is violating their most sacred right, security of the person. Which if you do not possess that, you have nothing. Taking away their means to work and support themselves because you disagree with their right to decide is inherently evil, especially when alternative options can be adopted with no consequences (i.e. periodic testing, simply not coming into work if they have the symptoms, etc.). I personally am pro-abortion and pro-people making their own decisions about vaccines. At the end of the day they pay the consequences if they get covid and die.

Except for those who feel it is 'no worse than a cold' and/or a World Government Conspiracy and will come to work anyway, possibly infect me, and I die.

 

[Remius]

Except for those who feel it is 'no worse than a cold' and/or a World Government Conspiracy and will come to work anyway, possibly infect me, and I die.

They don’t care.

 

[QV]

Obesity kills millions every year, yet governments, journalists and academics tell you not to say a thing about it otherwise you're a fat-shaming bigot.

Obesity alone, as a comorbidity factor, triples your likelihood to die from COVID.

Yet there isn't a massive national - let alone global - campaign to eradicate obesity. We aren't forcing kids to eat healthy. Aren't pushing them to be more active - instead shoving computer screens in their faces so they stop bothering us, both in and outside of classes -, we aren't mandating an hour of PT for all government workers, we aren't paying for people's access to gyms; we'd closed down the damn things during COVID! Despite being one of the best tools against COVID hospitalization.

But who am I, anyway...

Just stop. I can't take this dose of common sense any longer.

 

[Furniture]

It’s funny how some here who are or we’re vehemently against vaccine mandates blame the LPC for everything when the provinces had more say in how it was applied but still voted for Doug Ford and or cheered his victory lol when Ontario had some of the strictest COVID a rules in the world. Simultaneously they cheered when Kenney was deposed despite him having the loosest rules.

For the record I voted for Ford.

That's an odd argument... The other parties all said they would have done even more, so Ford was the lesser of the evils presented.

Not voting/cheering for Ford would have been essentially saying you wanted even more restrictions.

 

[Spencer100]

It’s funny how some here who are or we’re vehemently against vaccine mandates blame the LPC for everything when the provinces had more say in how it was applied but still voted for Doug Ford and or cheered his victory lol when Ontario had some of the strictest COVID a rules in the world. Simultaneously they cheered when Kenney was deposed despite him having the loosest rules.

For the record I voted for Ford.

Yes the provinces did have the power but Trudeau and feds still have the whip hand. I have no inside knowledge but you could see it on a day to day with Ford. You know he knew he didn't want to do something at first then a prov/fed call later change of plan.

 

[Eaglelord17]

Except for those who feel it is 'no worse than a cold' and/or a World Government Conspiracy and will come to work anyway, possibly infect me, and I die.

You can still get covid from someone who is fully vaccinated. I got it from someone who was triple vaccinated, and I am also triple vaccinated. There is even a higher possibility of someone vaccinated showing up to work with covid because they didn’t realize they had it/had extremely mild symptoms that were dismissed.

You could get the flu from a coworker and possibly die. You could get into a car accident on the way to work and possibly die. You could get a infected cut and possibly die. The world is full of ways to die. Being part of society means accepting risk. If you are so afraid of it, it means you should stay home, not forcing anyone else who may or may not have it to stay home.

 

[Brad Sallows]

I am always amused when someone drags out "but this one particular thing might kill me".

 

[OldSolduer]

You can still get covid from someone who is fully vaccinated. I got it from someone who was triple vaccinated, and I am also triple vaccinated. There is even a higher possibility of someone vaccinated showing up to work with covid because they didn’t realize they had it/had extremely mild symptoms that were dismissed.

You could get the flu from a coworker and possibly die. You could get into a car accident on the way to work and possibly die. You could get a infected cut and possibly die. The world is full of ways to die. Being part of society means accepting risk. If you are so afraid of it, it means you should stay home, not forcing anyone else who may or may not have it to stay home.

Agreed - there are numerous ways to die every day, but we don't.

 

[Remius]

Yes the provinces did have the power but Trudeau and feds still have the whip hand. I have no inside knowledge but you could see it on a day to day with Ford. You know he knew he didn't want to do something at first then a prov/fed call later change of plan.

Ford has had more photo ops with Trudeau than any conservative leader during that time. They got along quite nicely. Ford has shifted to the Center and he won a majority, lessons learned.

 

[Remius]

Yes the provinces did have the power but Trudeau and feds still have the whip hand. I have no inside knowledge but you could see it on a day to day with Ford. You know he knew he didn't want to do something at first then a prov/fed call later change of plan.

Also what whip did he have over Ford that he didn’t have over Kenney?

 

[The Bread Guy]

Ford has had more photo ops with Trudeau than any conservative leader during that time. They got along quite nicely. Ford has shifted to the Center and he won a majority, lessons learned.

He's also taken heat from the further right/"darker blue", too, because of same.

 

[Kirkhill]

Also what whip did he have over Ford that he didn’t have over Kenney?

Money. And the willingness to spend it in Ontario.