2022 CPC Leadership Discussion: Et tu Redeux

[QV]

There are some interesting opinions here, which is not at all surprising.

For the detractors, if PP wins the CPC leadership will you then keep voting Trudeau in or maybe move to Singh?

 

[Halifax Tar]

There are some interesting opinions here, which is not at all surprising.

For the detractors, if PP wins the CPC leadership will you then keep voting Trudeau in or maybe move to Singh?

That's a good question that I can't answer right now.

 

[IKnowNothing]

There are some interesting opinions here, which is not at all surprising.

For the detractors, if PP wins the CPC leadership will you then keep voting Trudeau in or maybe move to Singh?

Bolded. Heh. I've never voted for Trudeau. You don't have to be a Liberal to heavily dislike what PP/Lewis/Baber stand for and the direction they're threatening to take the party.

To answer, depends.
A- who voting Red is voting for (EDIT: I don't think it will be JT), what do they have to say. Freeland/Anand would have a good chance. Carney would be a slam dunk. If we're talking Finance guy vs Finance Guy I'm taking the battle tested pro over the youtube educated career MP.
B- is opposition/Leadership campaign PP the same as PM race PP? Does he actually believe this crap or is he just hitching his cart to it in the short term for political gain?
C- Can Singh hire an accountant and show the faintest ability to lead the country to a scandic model social democracy, or is he just big ideas and identity politics?

 

[RangerRay]

There are some interesting opinions here, which is not at all surprising.

For the detractors, if PP wins the CPC leadership will you then keep voting Trudeau in or maybe move to Singh?

Never voted Liberal (except provincially in BC) and don’t intend to start anytime soon. If any of these misfit toys (including Jean “Huawei” Charest) is voted in, I will probably sit out the next election.

 

[Remius]

Trudeau won’t run again. So that option will be off the table.

 

[QV]

Trudeau won’t run again. So that option will be off the table.

Regardless, unless there is a wholesale change at the LPC it will remain the same agenda/program/direction if Freeland is the leader. And I think it's a safe bet because it sure looks like they've been positioning her for that.

So if PP is the CPC leader, then you all are good with more of the same from the Freeland LPC?

 

[Remius]

Regardless, unless there is a wholesale change at the LPC it will remain the same agenda/program/direction if Freeland is the leader. And I think it's a safe bet because it sure looks like they've been positioning her for that.

So if PP is the CPC leader, then you all are good with more of the same from the Freeland LPC?

As far as I'm concerned pp is offering far worse. Not interested. I'd rather he lose so conservatives can get their collective heads out of their asses.

 

[Good2Golf]

Regardless, unless there is a wholesale change at the LPC it will remain the same agenda/program/direction if Freeland is the leader. And I think it's a safe bet because it sure looks like they've been positioning her for that.

So if PP is the CPC leader, then you all are good with more of the same from the Freeland LPC?

You seem intent on setting up an “either you’re with us (assuming PP wins the leadership), or against us (All Cons)” argument to smash all those of any shade of blue here into a compliant mass. As though, if I don’t like PP, then I’m not a ‘real conservative.’ Maybe how things are turning, it’s true. If today’s CPC is turning harder and harder towards a Reform/Alliance model and not respect the elements of the PCs, then maybe you’ll get your wish, QV, just an angry SOCON far right echo chamber…

Let’s play a critical thought game…if Jean Charest wins the leadership, would you vote for him or Maxime Bernier?

 

[brihard]

There are some interesting opinions here, which is not at all surprising.

For the detractors, if PP wins the CPC leadership will you then keep voting Trudeau in or maybe move to Singh?

If PP wins the leadership, I will vote for whoever is most likely to defeat him in his (my) riding. It would be my super insignificant way of expressing my disappointment to the CPC as a party for the dumb options it sticks us with. Yes, I would rather another Trudeau government than an opposition that thinks it’s presenting us with acceptable options for who should govern Canada. I at least have a measure of Trudeau. I’m not convinced as to where PP’s limits are, and the garbage he’s spouting so far and his blatant pandering to the conspiracy-addled concerns me greatly. I’d hold my nose and pick the lesser evil.

If someone other than PP wins the leadership, I’ll reassess.

 

[daftandbarmy]

If PP wins the leadership, I will vote for whoever is most likely to defeat him in his (my) riding. It would be my super insignificant way of expressing my disappointment to the CPC as a party for the dumb options it sticks us with. Yes, I would rather another Trudeau government than an opposition that thinks it’s presenting us with acceptable options for who should govern Canada. I at least have a measure of Trudeau. I’m not convinced as to where PP’s limits are, and the garbage he’s spouting so far and his blatant pandering to the conspiracy-addled concerns me greatly. I’d hold my nose and pick the lesser evil.

If someone other than PP wins the leadership, I’ll reassess.

Poll results from last month:

Canadians Believe Poilievre Has Edge over Rest of Conservative Field, but are Less Certain that they Want Him to Win​

All Candidates Leave a Net Negative Impression with Canadians; Liberal Voters More Favourable to Charest than Conservative Voters

https://www.ipsos.com/en-ca/news-polls/canadians-believe-poilievre-has-edge-over-rest-of-conservative-field

 

[Navy_Pete]

That's a pretty ringing un-endorsement by Canadians; PP is the most like to come out of the lobster barrel, but they should all get dumped back in the ocean.

CPC doing a good job of circling the drain via self-sabotage. Erin O'Toole was a more palatable option then any of these candidates, but if they want an echo chamber they seem to be on their way to a permanent 3rd place party led by a crypto-bro wannabe populist who is a career politician with no real life experience. Before they had someone a bit bland who a lot of people wouldn't vote for, but would have been a palatable option, and now pretty much all of their candidates are people that a lot of non-CPC votes would actively vote strategically against.

I think Singh as an LPC would wipe the floor; he's a pretty likable guy if you talk to him, lived across the entire country, and had a life before jumping into politics. I know there are people on both sides of the political spectrum pissed off that he jumped in bed with the LPC but if it works out he will have done more to actually implement NDP policies federally than anyone beforehand. In the last few debates before elections he's probably the only leader that I'd consider voting for personnally, but just can't get behind the sum of the parts of the NDP platform (the bad massively overshadows some of the good).

 

[QV]

You seem intent on setting up an “either you’re with us (assuming PP wins the leadership), or against us (All Cons)” argument to smash all those of any shade of blue here into a compliant mass. As though, if I don’t like PP, then I’m not a ‘real conservative.’ Maybe how things are turning, it’s true. If today’s CPC is turning harder and harder towards a Reform/Alliance model and not respect the elements of the PCs, then maybe you’ll get your wish, QV, just an angry SOCON far right echo chamber…

Let’s play a critical thought game…if Jean Charest wins the leadership, would you vote for him or Maxime Bernier?

I’m not. I’m genuinely curious how people will vote considering the significant negative criticism of PP here.

The CPC isn’t moving harder right, they’re just moving closer to the centre far slower than the LPC is moving left.

I’d likely vote for Bernier if Charest wins leadership, otherwise PP has my vote so far.

 

[Good2Golf]

I’m not. I’m genuinely curious how people will vote considering the significant negative criticism of PP here.

The CPC isn’t moving harder right, they’re just moving closer to the centre far slower than the LPC is moving left.

Sure, let’s go with that. The CPC is actually moving one time zone left.

Canada just moved left an entire planet to Mars.

I’d likely vote for Bernier if Charest wins leadership, otherwise PP has my vote so far.

I’d vote independent, a Libertarian if there is one…and no, not the PPC.

Since he’s my MP, I can guarantee 1(+1) vote(s) that won’t be going his way…

 

[brihard]

Sure, let’s go with that. The CPC is actually moving one time zone left.

Canada just moved left an entire planet to Mars.



I’d vote independent, a Libertarian if there is one…and no, not the PPC.

Since he’s my MP, I can guarantee 1(+1) vote(s) that won’t be going his way…

Sure, let’s go with that. The CPC is actually moving one time zone left.

Canada just moved left an entire planet to Mars.



I’d vote independent, a Libertarian if there is one…and no, not the PPC.

Since he’s my MP, I can guarantee 1(+1) vote(s) that won’t be going his way…

Not that you, Remius and I are much of a sample size, but it’s interesting how aligned we are on this. I’d be willing to bet we’ve all voted conservative before and would at least consider them as an option under the right circumstances.

 

[IKnowNothing]

The CPC isn’t moving harder right, they’re just moving closer to the centre far slower than the LPC is moving left.

Honestly, at first I was going to scoff but really the last ~4 months hasn't actually represented a policy shift right on either the social or economic axis.

A shift away from constructive leadership and towards soundbite driven rage mongering opposition.
A shift away from presenting and advocating for conservative solutions to real problems and towards enabling and proliferating conspiratorial tripe.

We can infer policy intent based on track record etc, but there has been a dearth of actual policy vision - which is precisely the problem.

What's the endgame? Burning books, charging doctors with a crime for terminating an ectopic pregnancy, taking a scythe to building and planning departments to clear the way for slumlords? Some unique beneficial future that hasn't been articulated yet? Or is it all just one big distraction noodle to try and keep the tent together and buy time. Who knows. Not a good look for a prospective governing party.

 

[quadrapiper]

What's the endgame? Burning books, charging doctors with a crime for terminating an ectopic pregnancy, taking a scythe to building and planning departments to clear the way for slumlords? Some unique beneficial future that hasn't been articulated yet? Or is it all just one big distraction noodle to try and keep the tent together and buy time.

From the outside, it feels like all of the above.

 

[QV]

The gas lighting is next level. To suggest PP and the CPC are some sort of extremist nuts.

 

[daftandbarmy]

FWIW, I found this interesting, especially the part about people not choosing partisan news sources...

Ideological and Partisan Bias in the Canadian Public​

Results suggest that Canadians (1) select politically congenial information, though not sources of such information, (2) follow elite cues when partisan motivation is primed and (3) evaluate evidence in ways that are biased by their ideological beliefs.

I find no evidence, however, that individuals choose news sources that are aligned with their political beliefs over mainstream outlets, or even over those that oppose their views (contra H2A/H2B). Ideologically right-wing and left-wing respondents both prefered mainstream and local news sources over aligned partisan media. This pattern could be the result of the partisan sources having lower levels of source credibility or less familiarity. Digital Democracy Project data provide evidence for both contentions.Footnote5 This null finding is also consistent with recent work on the media diets of Canadians: the reach of partisan media is very limited (Owen et al., Reference Owen, Bridgman, Gorwa, Loewen, MacLellan, Merkley, Ruths and Zhilin2020). Although I find null effects at the moment for selective engagement with these partisan-congenial sources, this does not mean this observation will carry into the future if these outlets or others gain more prominence and credibility.

Ideological and Partisan Bias in the Canadian Public | Canadian Journal of Political Science/Revue canadienne de science politique | Cambridge Core

Ideological and Partisan Bias in the Canadian Public - Volume 54 Issue 2

www.cambridge.org

 

[TacticalTea]

The gas lighting is next level. To suggest PP and the CPC are some sort of extremist nuts.

It's not so much that PP is an extremist, but he's actively lending credence to conspiracy theories, which is problematic in that it legitimizes the same sort of divisive populist rhetoric the likes of Sarah Palin and Donald Trump brought to the forefront of American politics.

Besides, the way he treats his fellow contenders shows he doesn't have the character I look for in an aspiring head of state.

 

[RangerRay]

I just don’t know when oppositional defiant disorder and conspiracy theories became pillars of conservative thought in this country.