2022 CPC Leadership Discussion: Et tu Redeux

[mariomike]

More a matter of kids at the start of their careers probably aren’t thinking ahead to retirement.

Right.

The employer does that for them.

OMERS membership for continuous full-time employees is mandatory; they must enrol in OMERS immediately when they are hired.

Regular Force members automatically join the plan when they enroll in the Regular Force

 

[Brad Sallows]

The main flaw of the CPP is its ROI.

Any government that takes money out of CPP will firmly establish the moral case for drawing on public revenues to prop up CPP (if necessary), and somewhat less firmly establish a pretext for future governments to nibble away at CPP assets, thereby almost ensuring an eventual prop-up will be needed.

 

[brihard]

The main flaw of the CPP is its ROI.

Any government that takes money out of CPP will firmly establish the moral case for drawing on public revenues to prop up CPP (if necessary), and somewhat less firmly establish a pretext for future governments to nibble away at CPP assets, thereby almost ensuring an eventual prop-up will be needed.

Hence no money should ever be pulled from CPP by government, and the independent board running CPP should be un-meddled with in making actuarial assessments of what contribution rates need to be to achieve the targeted CPP benefit set by government policy. As they’re on a 75 year actuarial timeline or so, and given the size and overall stability and predictability of the fund, they seem to be in good shape.

 

[Good2Golf]

The main flaw of the CPP is its ROI.

Any government that takes money out of CPP will firmly establish the moral case for drawing on public revenues to prop up CPP (if necessary), and somewhat less firmly establish a pretext for future governments to nibble away at CPP assets, thereby almost ensuring an eventual prop-up will be needed.

Absolutely. As brihard also note, I firmly believe that CPP funds should be legislatively (heck, maybe even Constitutionally) protected from Government thieving…it should be an arms-length protected fund, so that no Government can rob Peter to pretend/promise to pay Paul in order to mask fiscal irresponsibility for the sake of vote buying…

 

[Remius]

Right.

The employer does that for them.

If you have an employer that does that. Most don’t.

The control that young people have is either picking a job that has a pension plan and/or start investing in retirement savings vehicles.

I was quite clear that it would be very unlikely that the pension I currently have would exist when my son retires so he would need a supplement.

He still hasn’t clued into the fact that as an only child from divorced well off parents that he stands to inherit from some amount of intergenerational wealth but I don’t want that to be his actual and only plan lol.

 

[Remius]

Accordingly, I am up for contributing to ways that can help them in the future, like accepting retroactive downgrade of my CAF DB pension to DC. I absolutely will not sit back and crow about sitting pretty with a healthy DB pension while others angst over their future ability to participate productively in Canada’s future society.

not sure we’ll ever see a retroactive cut but I certainly see DB pensions going to way of the dodo.

 

[mariomike]

Right.

Assumed you were referring to the CAF.

I remember doing CAF recruiting presentations in schools and we always mentioned the pension

Mea culpa.

 

[brihard]

If you have an employer that does that. Most don’t.

The control that young people have is either picking a job that has a pension plan and/or start investing in retirement savings vehicles.

I was quite clear that it would be very unlikely that the pension I currently have would exist when my son retires so he would need a supplement.

He still hasn’t clued into the fact that as an only child from divorced well off parents that he stands to inherit from some amount of intergenerational wealth but I don’t want that to be his actual and only plan lol.

Lol, yup. We have an RESP set up, we matched it so they it will get the maximum government grants by about age 14, and we front loaded the remaining contribution cap so that last grant will hit the lifetime contribution cap. He’ll find out about that very late in the game, but our intent is that our son (and any hypothetical sibling) will be able to go to any school they can get admitted to.

We also have a non-registered account for him for other money we put in from time to time, gifts, etc. I’ll make sure he understands financial literacy, TFSA, RRSP, FHSA, pensions etc. My wife and I are in good shape and should retire in excellent shape; when the time comes, our kid(s) will have at least some help to get a home.

But our kid(s) are super lucky, and we’ll make sure they know that too.

My wife would shit a brick, but I’d love to see any kid(s) of ours consider ROTP. Still a tough deal to beat, and a great safety net to start with.

 

[dapaterson]

He still hasn’t clued into the fact that as an only child from divorced well off parents that he stands to inherit from some amount of intergenerational wealth but I don’t want that to be his actual and only plan lol.

Better be careful about the films you let him watch...

 

[mariomike]

I thought not a whit about pensions when I was in my 20s other than it was a big chunk on my paystub, and that was back in the day when you got a stub or statement every two weeks to stare at.

What I noticed was the deductions would go up and down. Depending on Funding. Sometimes, there was a contribution "holiday" when the plan was over-funded. That was before the Baby Boomers hired in the early 1970's stopped contributing, and started collecting.

When Payroll went to direct deposit, most of us agreed to go on it. But, only new hires could actually be forced to.

A few guys insisted their cheques be hand delivered by Supervisor. Only explanation I heard was "for sheer spite".

More likely, I believe, they didn't want the wives to see the direct deposits.

Funny thing at the pre-retirement seminar with my wife. They explained the Survivor Benefit is equal to 66 2/3% of the unreduced lifetime pension you earned and is payable for your spouse’s lifetime, even if they remarry. A lifetime pension includes inflation protection.

They said there was one merry widow collecting six OMERS Survivor pensions!

 

[Remius]

They said there was one merry widow collecting six OMERS Survivor pensions!

that’s a criminal minds or law and order episode plot right there

 

[Halifax Tar]

Lol, yup. We have an RESP set up, we matched it so they it will get the maximum government grants by about age 14, and we front loaded the remaining contribution cap so that last grant will hit the lifetime contribution cap. He’ll find out about that very late in the game, but our intent is that our son (and any hypothetical sibling) will be able to go to any school they can get admitted to.

We also have a non-registered account for him for other money we put in from time to time, gifts, etc. I’ll make sure he understands financial literacy, TFSA, RRSP, FHSA, pensions etc. My wife and I are in good shape and should retire in excellent shape; when the time comes, our kid(s) will have at least some help to get a home.

But our kid(s) are super lucky, and we’ll make sure they know that too.

My wife would shit a brick, but I’d love to see any kid(s) of ours consider ROTP. Still a tough deal to beat, and a great safety net to start with.

I hope my daughter gets a scholarship or gets into RMC. Because while we're investing/saving money for her education I have my doubts what we save will be able to offer much support in 10 years.

 

[mariomike]

that’s a criminal minds or law and order episode plot right there

"Alexa, How can I tell if my spouse is trying to poison me?" ( I kid. )

The way I heard it, she was active in a police pensioner social group. Had a soft spot for old unmarried coppers, apparently.

 

[MilEME09]

Clearly the solution here is get a time machine, go back to 2010, and convince the GoC to drop a billion in bitcoin "trust us this will work"

 

[Remius]

"Alexa, How can I tell if my spouse is trying to poison me?" ( I kid. )

The way I heard it, she was active in a police pensioner social group. Had a soft spot for old unmarried coppers, apparently.

Yeah but 6? That pension plan needs a real overhaul if that is the case.

 

[brihard]

Yeah but 6? That pension plan needs a real overhaul if that is the case.

I bet I can tell you what spot was soft though.

 

[mariomike]

Yeah but 6? That pension plan needs a real overhaul if that is the case.

I know it sounds high.

They definitely made it clear that the surviving spouse could collect mulitple OMERS pensions - concurently.

OMERS Survivor Benefits: Protecting Your Loved Ones After Death | OMERS Members | myOMERS

Learn about OMERS survivor benefits, eligibility and payout options for spouses, dependent children and beneficiaries. Understand the documentation required for claiming benefits.

members.omers.com

 

[lenaitch]

What I noticed was the deductions would go up and down. Depending on Funding. Sometimes, there was a contribution "holiday" when the plan was over-funded. That was before the Baby Boomers hired in the early 1970's stopped contributing, and started collecting.

When Payroll went to direct deposit, most of us agreed to go on it. But, only new hires could actually be forced to.

A few guys insisted their cheques be hand delivered by Supervisor. Only explanation I heard was "for sheer spite".

More likely, I believe, they didn't want the wives to see the direct deposits.

Funny thing at the pre-retirement seminar with my wife. They explained the Survivor Benefit is equal to 66 2/3% of the unreduced lifetime pension you earned and is payable for your spouse’s lifetime, even if they remarry. A lifetime pension includes inflation protection.

They said there was one merry widow collecting six OMERS Survivor pensions!

Going from memory when I was involved with our Association, OMERS has had a number of 'holidays', a couple quite lengthy. I recall one I think back in the '90s that lasted several years (at least for the police bargaining unit) and it was a bit of a shock for some young members who got quite used to their net pay before contributions kicked back in.

When we went to direct deposit it was all-in for everybody. Before that, overtime used to come on a separate cheque and some of the old-timers didn't like that it got rolled in.

The way I heard it, she was active in a police pensioner social group. Had a soft spot for old unmarried coppers, apparently.

And apparently knew how to work a room. Lends a whole new meaning to 'ambulance chaser'.

 

[Eaglelord17]

Poillievre has spoken recently about reducing CPP deductions; something about ‘powerful paychecks’, though the skeptic in me suspects it’s more about reducing employer side payroll taxes. Has anyone see him commit to a position on what this would mean for actual CPP benefits? I cannot see him accomplishing any meaningful reduction in CPP contributions without it reducing the eventual benefits.

Hopefully it will be killing CPP2, that will be a meaningful reduction as currently it means paying until you reach 80k gross. Just 2025 alone that means paying 792$ up from 376$ last year.

My income is getting eaten into enough with inflation, I don’t need this unwanted pension add on as well eating into my income as well.

I’m not missing any point. 18-24 year olds aren’t renowned for having informed views on financial planning for retirement. Of course most kids would take the cash up front. They probably would prefer not to pay into EI either. I’m ignoring that preference because it makes for bad policy in the long run.

EI is basically a scam in my opinion. The only time it benefits me is parental leave. Otherwise if you make above 82k a year you have to payback a substantial portion of it if you ever use it. It is basically subsidized income for part time workers made off my cheques. I will never get anywhere near what I pay into it out of it.

I would rather EI be a personal account with withdrawal possible for parental leave and layoffs, where after you retire or hit a certain age it becomes a pension payment. That would suck for the seasonal workers but that’s their issue not mine.

Clearly the solution here is get a time machine, go back to 2010, and convince the GoC to drop a billion in bitcoin "trust us this will work"

Or just not selling the gold reserves in 2016. If we had waited a few years we would have gotten substantially more for them.

 

[Brad Sallows]

I would rather EI be a personal account with withdrawal possible for parental leave and layoffs, where after you retire or hit a certain age it becomes a pension payment.

Not much point. EI should be able to insure someone for a few months of unexpected income loss, and requires risk pooling if the necessary amounts are to be contributed without it becoming a mandatory (and mostly unwanted and undesirable) no-interest savings plan.

EI is used as a subsidy for seasonal workers and employment absences because the premiums are too high for what a proper insurance would require, and few politicians can see a surplus of other peoples' money without wondering how to earn political capital from it.