2022 CPC Leadership Discussion: Et tu Redeux

[Halifax Tar]

That article speaks to me.

If we had a federal election today I would probably spoil my ballot. I'd create my own "None of the above" ballot.

 

[Remius]

That article speaks to me.

If we had a federal election today I would probably spoil my ballot. I'd create my own "None of the above" ballot.

I think that is the feeling that is being underestimated by some in the CPC.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I think that is the feeling that is being underestimated by some in the CPC.

I think most of the country is made up of Blue Liberals and Red Torys.

I see space for a Charest and/or MacKay to restart the fires in the old dreadnought that was the PC party. Maybe rename it the Canadian Tory party or something as I don't think the PC name can be used federally.

Also keep an eye on Houston down here in NS hes up to something.

 

[Remius]

I think most of the country is made up of Blue Liberals and Red Torys.

I see space for a Charest and/or MacKay to restart the fires in the old dreadnought that was the PC party. Maybe rename it the Canadian Tory party or something as I don't think the PC name can be used federally.

Also keep an eye on Houston down here in NS hes up to something.

The issue with Houston is that he campaigned on a “I’m not the same as them” sort of thing. I’m not sure he could secure the CPC leadership.

Could he start a new PC party federally? Now that might be interesting…

 

[RangerRay]

With people bringing up names like Jean Charest and Joe Clark, I want to say “The ‘90s called. They want their Tory politicians back!” They failed to grow their party in the West and I don’t see them being able to do it now with a newer generation. Joe Who was also the main obstruction to the merger of the two parties, which agreed on 90% of issues.

I don’t really see anyone who would be a suitable leader right now except for Rona Ambrose or Brad Wall. Unfortunately, neither are interested.

 

[Altair]

With people bringing up names like Jean Charest and Joe Clark, I want to say “The ‘90s called. They want their Tory politicians back!” They failed to grow their party in the West and I don’t see them being able to do it now with a newer generation. Joe Who was also the main obstruction to the merger of the two parties, which agreed on 90% of issues.

I don’t really see anyone who would be a suitable leader right now except for Rona Ambrose or Brad Wall. Unfortunately, neither are interested.

Does....the CPC....need to grow more in the west?
Is the CPC under threat in the west from another party?

I'm confused.

 

[RangerRay]

Does....the CPC....need to grow more in the west?
Is the CPC under threat in the west from another party?

I'm confused.

To be sure, they have problems growing in the East, particularly in the suburban/urban areas they need to form government. But they can’t form government without Western conservatives. It’s a conundrum that the next leader has to fix. Charest and Clark were unable to do it then and I see no evidence they can do it now.

 

[Remius]

To be sure, they have problems growing in the East, particularly in the suburban/urban areas they need to form government. But they can’t form government without Western conservatives. It’s a conundrum that the next leader has to fix. Charest and Clark were unable to do it then and I see no evidence they can do it now.

No one is calling for Joe Clark to come back.

 

[Remius]

To be sure, they have problems growing in the East, particularly in the suburban/urban areas they need to form government. But they can’t form government without Western conservatives. It’s a conundrum that the next leader has to fix. Charest and Clark were unable to do it then and I see no evidence they can do it now.

But I do get your point. Western voters may not be warm to someone from upper and lower Canada

 

[MilEME09]

Does....the CPC....need to grow more in the west?
Is the CPC under threat in the west from another party?

I'm confused.

CPC's greatest threat in the west is it self, and maybe the Alberta UCP, last election saw a lot of ridings barely go blue that could of gone orange or even red, urban western voters are shifting in demographic.

 

[Good2Golf]

To be sure, they have problems growing in the East, particularly in the suburban/urban areas they need to form government. But they can’t form government without Western conservatives. It’s a conundrum that the next leader has to fix. Charest and Clark were unable to do it then and I see no evidence they can do it now.

If they try (Charest or MacKay) and make a solid effort to recover moderate conservatism, especially down East and in Quebec and the West (AB and mini me SK) insists on cutting its nose off to spite its face and stay hard SOCON/Reform/Alliance/CPC, they might as well start the Wexit paperwork now, as it would be all about them and not a wider modestly progressive Canada. Then I’ll count how long it takes before AB finally adopts a PST/VAT…

 

[Halifax Tar]

The issue with Houston is that he campaigned on a “I’m not the same as them” sort of thing. I’m not sure he could secure the CPC leadership.

Could he start a new PC party federally? Now that might be interesting…

Ya I never alluded to Houston running for the CPC. He's been very careful and clear to distance himself from the CPC. I'm talking about a return of the PC.

With people bringing up names like Jean Charest and Joe Clark, I want to say “The ‘90s called. They want their Tory politicians back!” They failed to grow their party in the West and I don’t see them being able to do it now with a newer generation. Joe Who was also the main obstruction to the merger of the two parties, which agreed on 90% of issues.

I don’t really see anyone who would be a suitable leader right now except for Rona Ambrose or Brad Wall. Unfortunately, neither are interested.

In case you haven't noticed the west isn't required to win federal elections. I don't like it either but it's the truth.

Having said that the demographic is changing out there as it becomes more urban and progressive.

Alberta has the same rights as Quebec or anywhere else to succeed from the confederation if they feel so moved.

 

[RangerRay]

Despite the socon faction painting McKay as a “red Tory” (to me, moderate =\= red) I think he would be a great leader for most factions other than the PPC curious types still with the CPC. But I think that ship has sailed. I would be surprised if he would want to get within 100 miles of the party now as it takes a turn down Trumpy Lane.

 

[Good2Golf]

Agree, I think a reborn PC by whatever name (I’ve heard but not seen that PC can’t be used again?) will be where moderately progressive conservatives provide a valid option to the LPcs ad Canadians can expect.

 

[Dana381]

The problem that I see with the conservatives in the east is that the majority of the population relies at least partially on social programs. Typically in the past conservatives are in favour of fiscal restraint. This usually means that EI gets lowered and federal jobs leave the area.

When I lived in P.E.I. I had a friend who emigrated from Ireland. He once called P.E.I. and rural Maritimes a reservation, that they don't really have an economy without federal money. At first I was offended but I realized he was right. When Ottawa reduces funding to P.E.I. one of the first places P.E.I. cuts is the EI program. And nearly everybody living there relies on EI or knows someone who does.

I have a large family and I had to move to Ontario as in my career I would never be able to support them on what I was making in P.E.I.

When the conservatives pander to the west it makes Maritimers nervous that they will loose income and it's harder for them to gain votes.

McKay being from Nova Scotia understands this more than western politicians so he may be able to make ground in the east but that will likely alienate the western voters.

The last two elections were very close, if the new CPC leader can find a way to assure Maritimers that transfer payments will remain steady and still appeal to western voters that will help their case greatly.

 

[Brad Sallows]

The old PC had the same problem as the LPC. They had strength in Quebec, and it seems that Quebec in that era had a lot of political corruption. That won't do any more.

Westerners won't object to paying bills if they have enough political clout. That means things the west wants aren't automatically traded off if the east objects.

 

[daftandbarmy]

The problem that I see with the conservatives in the east is that the majority of the population relies at least partially on social programs. Typically in the past conservatives are in favour of fiscal restraint. This usually means that EI gets lowered and federal jobs leave the area.

When I lived in P.E.I. I had a friend who emigrated from Ireland. He once called P.E.I. and rural Maritimes a reservation, that they don't really have an economy without federal money. At first I was offended but I realized he was right. When Ottawa reduces funding to P.E.I. one of the first places P.E.I. cuts is the EI program. And nearly everybody living there relies on EI or knows someone who does.

Pot, this is Kettle, over...

Ireland is perennially on the verge of bankruptcy, along with Portugal, Greece and Spain, and relies heavily on EU cash to survive e.g.,:

Ireland to get €361m EU Brexit payment within weeks​

The Government will get a total of €920m by December 2023


Ireland will receive a €361m payout from the EU’s €5.4bn Brexit fund by the end of the month, the first payment to any country since the envelope was agreed this summer.

The European Commission approved the transfer on Monday given that Ireland is the country worst affected by the UK’s decision to leave the EU.

Ireland’s total allocation from the fund is worth around a billion euros.

“Brexit has had a negative impact on many people's lives. Within the EU, it is the people in Ireland who feel it the most,” said EU regional commissioner Elisa Ferreira.

“In moving forward, we don't want to leave anyone behind. The funding that Ireland will receive will contribute to improve living standards, support economic growth in the country and mitigate the negative impacts in local communities.”

Ireland is by far the biggest recipient of aid from the fund, which was agreed this summer after changes were made to accommodate France’s demands for more cash.

The Government will get a total of €920m in current prices (just over €1bn in 2018 prices) for supports granted between January 2020 and end-December 2023, which cover Brexit-related costs incurred before January 2021.

EU countries don’t need to obtain advance approval from the European Commission on how to spend the money, unlike the €1bn allocated to Ireland from the bloc’s €750bn pandemic recovery fund.

Ireland to get €361m EU Brexit payment within weeks

Ireland will receive a €361m payout from the EU’s €5.4bn Brexit fund by the end of the month, the first payment to any country since the envelope was agreed this summer.

www.independent.ie

 

[Dana381]

My friends nationality nor Ireland's finances have nothing to do with whether or not he is right. I only mentioned his nationality because the fact he isn't Canadian gives him an outside viewpoint. Maybe that's why he said it, he recognized it from home.

Either way it dosent change the fact that unless the conservatives assure Maritimers the payments won't change it will be extremely difficult to win any east coast seats.

 

[Halifax Tar]

My friends nationality nor Ireland's finances have nothing to do with whether or not he is right. I only mentioned his nationality because the fact he isn't Canadian gives him an outside viewpoint. Maybe that's why he said it, he recognized it from home.

Either way it dosent change the fact that unless the conservatives assure Maritimers the payments won't change it will be extremely difficult to win any east coast seats.

Most social programs are municipal and provincial with the exception of EI which you have to contribute to to utilize.

There is definitely an expectation out here that one should be able to exist where there is no economy or viable options. Maritimers are very reluctant to move.

Having said that NS, NB and PEI all have Conservative governments right now. With NBs probably being the weakest.

 

[Dana381]

Most social programs are municipal and provincial with the exception of EI which you have to contribute to to utilize.

There is definitely an expectation out here that one should be able to exist where there is no economy or viable options. Maritimers are very reluctant to move.

Having said that NS, NB and PEI all have Conservative governments right now. With NBs probably being the weakest.

Yes the provincial governments are conservative but thr cpc maritime lost seats in the last federal election.

Yes the social programs are provincialy managed but with the money coming from the federal government.

Maritimers are reluctant to move and industry takes advantage of that. Many businesses claim they can't afford to pay more even when they are profitable, Even when they struggle to find workers. There seems to be a mentality among employers that they don't need to pay well because life is cheaper there than in Ontario. My experience is this is wrong. With the exception of housing everything is substantially cheaper here in Ontario. Groceries are 20-50% more in P.E.I. than in the KW area where I live now. I watched many good workers leave jobs and the province when $0.50-$1.00 would have kept them, these guys were making $13-$15/hr where the same job elsewhere paid $20+/hr. I myself went up $8/hr by moving and my expenses went down a little.