2022 CPC Leadership Discussion: Et tu Redeux

[Edward Campbell]

I'm not anti-Poilievre and I'm not sure a better choice is on offer, but ...

What the Conservative Party needs is a leader with a plan to win seats ~ lots of seats ~ in the suburbs around Vancouver and in the Toronto/Golden Horseshoe regions while not losing (much of) the party's Western base.

I think there is a huge disconnect, in the Conservative ranks between those who think as I do ~ who want back-to-back-to-back socially moderate, moderately progressive and fiscally hawkish Conservative governments of the next dozen years ~ and those who want the Conservative Party to be an ideologically pure home for the social-conservatives who make up about 10% to 15% of the electorate.

My suspicion is that the latter group is in the ascendant right now ... the next few weeks/months will be interesting.

 

[Remius]

"Weasle" is exactly how I've described PP for years. I admire her fiscal conservatism, but he's the worst kind of politician in two ways: 1. Not a word comes out of his mouth that isn't carefully curated in advance, and 2. If you (the opposition) says anything that could be twisted, he will twist it apart and rip to shreds with your own words, even if you had clarified your words, and regardless if PP (bring, assumably, a smart guy) understands fully what you meant. That kind of politician. A Weasle. There's lot sof them, but he's a big one.

He’s a career politician. So it’s expected. He’s an opportunist and will exploit anything for political gain. I’m sure he knew exactly what was going on behind O’toole’s back. The moment O’toole said he would not meet the protesters he jumped right in there with coffee, timbits and a photographer. Don’t kid yourself. Everything is scripted when it comes to his antics.

That being said, I still think he’s a good MP. But leader and more importantly PM? I’m going to wait for the other cast to step forward and see.

 

[Haggis]

If trudeau has been hiding up till now, he's going to have to step up his game. He doesn’t have the balls or intelligence to go toe to toe with Pierre.

The idea of Prime Minister Trudeau having to constantly deal with this guy fills me with joy.

Do you guys even watch Question Period? Trudeau has been blowing off PP forever. He, or his ministers, never give PP - or anyone else for that matter - an answer to anything. Do you think this will change with PP as Opposition Leader? It won't. They regurgitate the same talking point ad nauseum. As Catherine McKenna was quoted as saying "If you repeat the same things often enough and loud enough, people will believe you".

As Altair said somewhere else "it's called 'Question Period', not 'Answer Period'."

 

[Czech_pivo]

For, as of now, I’ll be backing Mike Chong if he decides to run.
I’m looking for someone with character, not an attack dog, someone who has worked in the real world and in politics. A person who is not a loud mouth but who’s no shrinking violet. I’m not willing to back or vote for someone who’s there just because they are winnable - I want someone who I can get behind, someone with some shared interests.

 

[Good2Golf]

There are weasles, and then there are sanctimonious pretend non-weasels…


I wonder what a Poilièvre CPC and MacKay PC dual-lane conservative run would look like?

 

[Jarnhamar]

Do you guys even watch Question Period? Trudeau has been blowing off PP forever. He, or his ministers, never give PP - or anyone else for that matter - an answer to anything. Do you think this will change with PP as Opposition Leader?

I know, small things amuse small minds, I just like watching him fumble under pressure.
One of my favs:

I think we're blessed (in an evidence based scientific way) with enjoying a Liberal government for a very long time.

 

[Remius]

There are weasles, and then there are sanctimonious pretend non-weasels…


I wonder what a Poilièvre CPC and MacKay PC dual-lane conservative run would look like?

I honestly don’t think McKay would run. And I honestly don’t think McKay would be chosen as leader by the party.

Oh wait, you mean if McKay splits off? If so I see nothing but red in power the next election. The last thing the conservatives is split vote that would be wider than what the PPC a is already giving them.

 

[brihard]

I honestly don’t think McKay would run. And I honestly don’t think McKay would be chosen as leader by the party.

Oh wait, you mean if McKay splits off? If so I see nothing but red in power the next election. The last thing the conservatives is split vote that would be wider than what the PPC a is already giving them.

Indeed. I made no secret of my preference for McKay when they were selecting a leader. I think he would have navigated the party’s internal politics much more deftly, and may have won the election outright. However I’m no longer confident that he could win leadership- the party has changed. I’m not sure he’s masochistic enough to try.

The real winner here is probably Trudeau.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Just moved the PP material into the existing Team Blue leadership thread - bash on.

Milnet.ca Staff

 

[Good2Golf]

Oh wait, you mean if McKay splits off? If so I see nothing but red in power the next election. The last thing the conservatives is split vote that would be wider than what the PPC a is already giving them.

Correct.

If enough Blue Libs would be pulled away by a reborn PC party, then a PC-CPC coalition could conceivably make the case to the GG that it could form a Govermnent.

As is (CPC only), I agree with others that we’ll be red for a while.

 

[Remius]

Would a CPC-CP be big enough to hold more seats than an LPC NDP coalition? I doubt it.

All that split would do is just move one amount of votes to another but it still remain the same amount.

I just don’t see moderate CP types aligning themselves to a more SOCON CPC. You’d sooner see a McKay led CP propping up an LPC minority and them trying to push on the fiscal side of things. PC social stuff and thing like the environment are likely closer to the LPC than the SOCON position on those things.

And McKay will never trust that side again after what happened with Harper.

 

[Good2Golf]

Would a CPC-CP be big enough to hold more seats than an LPC NDP coalition? I doubt it.

All that split would do is just move one amount of votes to another but it still remain the same amount.

I just don’t see moderate CP types aligning themselves to a more SOCON CPC. You’d sooner see a McKay led CP propping up an LPC minority and them trying to push on the fiscal side of things. PC social stuff and thing like the environment are likely closer to the LPC than the SOCON position on those things.

And McKay will never trust that side again after what happened with Harper.

Reasonable question to ask.

Mathematically, LPC would need to bleed enough Blues to offset the entire NDP…not sure if that’s possible, but then PC’s could conceivably hold more power than NDPs and be a threat, as you not, to align with the LPC of the CPC is really intent on burning the center-bridge.

 

[Remius]

I guess it would also depend on if or when centrist Liberals would tire of the the left swing that the LPC is taking. As in how far is too far before they have enough.

 

[AmmoTech90]

Out of curiosity how long ago was that?

It would have been between 2012 and 2014.

 

[Brad Sallows]

As in how far is too far before they have enough.

When middle class LPC voters can figure out that the money the government is giving them doesn't add up to the money being taken away (taxes, erosion of buying power).

 

[QV]

When middle class LPC voters can figure out that the money the government is giving them doesn't add up to the money being taken away (taxes, erosion of buying power).

You might be on to something… so far only Pierre P has been effective at communicating that.

 

[MilEME09]

You might be on to something… so far only Pierre P has been effective at communicating that.

And its a communication strategy that could work in an election if hammered into the public

 

[Navy_Pete]

Do you guys even watch Question Period? Trudeau has been blowing off PP forever. He, or his ministers, never give PP - or anyone else for that matter - an answer to anything. Do you think this will change with PP as Opposition Leader? It won't. They regurgitate the same talking point ad nauseum. As Catherine McKenna was quoted as saying "If you repeat the same things often enough and loud enough, people will believe you".

As Altair said somewhere else "it's called 'Question Period', not 'Answer Period'."

I have a few friends that regularly post PP's questions as if he's scoring big points; there is almost never any with anyone from the government actually responding. He's good at firing up the base and making political soundbites for the news I guess, but that does nothing other than retain existing seats.

Guy has been an MP for how long and he's running on how bad the other guy is still, vice what can he do to make things better. I think Singh made that point a few years ago at a leaders debate where Trudeau and Scheer just kept talking about how crap the other guy was. The faces changed on the CPC side but so far the playbook is the same.

 

[MilEME09]

I have a few friends that regularly post PP's questions as if he's scoring big points; there is almost never any with anyone from the government actually responding. He's good at firing up the base and making political soundbites for the news I guess, but that does nothing other than retain existing seats.

Guy has been an MP for how long and he's running on how bad the other guy is still, vice what can he do to make things better. I think Singh made that point a few years ago at a leaders debate where Trudeau and Scheer just kept talking about how crap the other guy was. The faces changed on the CPC side but so far the playbook is the same.

Politics pretty much has devolved into that everywhere, it stopped being "elect me because " and became "don't elect them because " which really turns off voters

 

[QV]

If you’ve watched PP in committee hearings you’d see he actually holds people accountable, including senior bureaucrats.