2022 CPC Leadership Discussion: Et tu Redeux

[QV]

Lots if folks here have come a long way from practically labelling PP a right wing zealot. Good to see some of you finally coming around

To be clear, I’m not sold on him yet. One good PR video hasn’t changed the past few years of his actions.

You can go back through the posts and my main issue with him is whether he would keep his “Harper attack dog” ways if/when he formed govt. It’s good that he has started to soften the image, but I want to see him soften his image in QP and other less-scripted venues before I make up my mind.

Still undecided hey... So "mean tweets" is the rubicon for you? Not the hundred and one scandals by Trudeau?

 

[dimsum]

Lots if folks here have come a long way from practically labelling PP a right wing zealot. Good to see some of you finally coming around


Still undecided hey... So "mean tweets" is the rubicon for you? Not the hundred and one scandals by Trudeau?

Support for the Convoy, but sure.

I have mentioned here before how I was, for all intents and purposes, at ground zero for the Ottawa convoy. What the media neglected to mention during the 3 week pool party was the rampant drinking (then speeding the wrong way down one-way streets), blocking off major streets to emergency traffic, harassing the local people who are most definitely not the politicians who run this country because they do not live in Centretown or downtown,, and some other examples that I can rattle off.

So let me be very clear: Fuck them, and fuck their supporters.

 

[QV]

Got it. You've made your position clear. I am not at all surprised.

 

[The Bread Guy]

... So "mean tweets" is the rubicon ...

For some, it's sometimes-mean statements, sometimes-mean generalizations, sometimes-mean digs - all these add up. Each in isolation, not so much. Once in a while? It could be a slip. Too many in a row? Could be seen as a trend.

PP's discipline has been generally decent, but we'll have to see if the off-and-on bully-feel stuff is just the occasional poke, or a tendency re: how he treats people who don't agree with him or his policies.

After all, even if he wins the popular vote according to the latest polling, 40% would be voting against him. That's a lot of people to piss off - as folks who feel they're on the receiving end of ... less-than-fully-inclusive treatment (to be polite) from current management now must understand.

We'll see ...

 

[QV]

For some, it's sometimes-mean statements, sometimes-mean generalizations, sometimes-mean digs - all these add up. Each in isolation, not so much. Once in a while? It could be a slip. Too many in a row? Could be seen as a trend.

PP's discipline has been generally decent, but we'll have to see if the off-and-on bully-feel stuff is just the occasional poke, or a tendency re: how he treats people who don't agree with him or his policies.

After all, even if he wins the popular vote according to the latest polling, 40% would be voting against him. That's a lot of people to piss off - as folks who feel they're on the receiving end of ... less-than-fully-inclusive treatment (to be polite) from current management now must understand.

We'll see ...

How many scandals are required to turn off the average voter? I don't think Trudeau has hit Dimsum's threshold yet.... but those damn blue collar workers who opposed the lockdowns...

 

[dimsum]

For some, it's sometimes-mean statements, sometimes-mean generalizations, sometimes-mean digs - all these add up. Each in isolation, not so much. Once in a while? It could be a slip. Too many in a row? Could be seen as a trend.

PP's discipline has been generally decent, but we'll have to see if the off-and-on bully-feel stuff is just the occasional poke, or a tendency re: how he treats people who don't agree with him or his policies.

The LPC, et al haven’t gone on full campaign mode yet but I’m guessing that if they decide to step away from the “hopes and dreams” platforms of previous years, they’re saving up all of the clips of Poilievre being snippy to journalists, etc and releasing a supercut of them to show that he’s a bully.

Canadians generally don’t like bullies.

After all, even if he wins the popular vote according to the latest polling, 40% would be voting against him. That's a lot of people to piss off - as folks who feel they're on the receiving end of ... less-than-fully-inclusive treatment (to be polite) from current management now must understand.

We'll see ...

Yup - we will.

 

[dimsum]

How many scandals are required to turn off the average voter? I don't think Trudeau has hit Dimsum's threshold yet.... but those damn blue collar workers who opposed the lockdowns...

You mean the lockdowns that were spurred on because the US wasn’t allowing non-vaccinated Canadian truckers in, and they wanted the Canadian govt to somehow force the US’s hand? Like we can even do that - it’s their country.

No. What really turned me off the convoy in Ottawa (then elsewhere) was the fact that within 48 hours of camping out in downtown Ottawa, it was less a protest against anything than a live-in street party. There were so many factions within the groups - some protesting the lockdowns, some sticking to the original trucker thing, and some with the bonkers idea of replacing the current Canadian govt - that there was zero cohesion. That just brought more conspiracy-minded folks into the fold.

Then Poilievre blasts Trudeau on not talking to them. Who exactly would he be talking to? The ones who oppose the lockdowns, the truckers, the folks wanting to collapse the govt? Or the other 19 groups also camped out there? They couldn’t even agree with each other (hence the hilarious videos and audio on Mayor McCheese podcast) and they’re going to go talk to the Canadian govt with a unified voice?

Ottawa has protests of one form or another every weekend. It’s people’s right to protest the govt. But doing the shit that the convoy folks did in Ottawa isn’t protesting - it’s effectively occupying a section of the city.

 

[The Bread Guy]

How many scandals are required to turn off the average voter? ...

I think we can look south to our American neighbours for some clues to that equation Depends if the scandal's happening to someone one likes, or someone one dislikes.

 

[QV]

I think we can look south to our American neighbours for some clues to that equation Depends if the scandal's happening to someone one likes, or someone one dislikes.

Wrong. It depends if its a legitimate scandal (SNC Lav) or a hoax (Russia collusion etc).

 

[daftandbarmy]

Except right now they are tanking, looking to lose about a quarter of their seats if the election were held today (according to 338). My understanding is that they are also having a great deal of difficulty in fundraising. Have no money to campaign, and lose 25% of your caucus? Might be better to wait and hope that the horse learns how to sing.

Meanwhile, down in the 'Estimated 80s' ....

https://twitter.com/x/status/1830959429530919417

 

[Remius]

I realize this may be hard for some to grasp but a vote against PP is not necessarily a vote for Trudeau.

I generally don’t decide until campaigning is in full swing. Like Dimsum, the support and encouragement PP gave the convoy has pretty much turned me off. He barely mentions anything now or associates with that event. That should tell you something. I’ve also seen how he campaigns in my riding and well…not impressed.

I’ll wait until I see actual policy that stems from the campaign.

As for JT. The guy has to go. I doubt I can support an LPC led by him any more than I want to support a CPC led by PP. a change in leadership could maybe sway but again, campaign policy dependant.

Right now I hope the Canada Future Party runs in my riding. I can at least park my small vote percentage there.

 

[dimsum]

I realize this may be hard for some to grasp but a vote against PP is not necessarily a vote for Trudeau.

Too many people in Canada, in general, think that the Canadian multi-party (and yes, even if the other parties don’t have a huge share, they are still parties) system is the same as the US “effectively 2-party” system.


On another note, if you’re going to attack a campaign on how it hasn’t helped anyone yet, maybe wait until after it starts before pressing “send”.

Canadians call out Pierre Poilievre for criticizing Trudeau’s National School Food Program before it rolls out - NOW Toronto

Pierre Poilievre is receiving flak online for criticizing the federal government’s National Food Program before it had a chance to roll out.

nowtoronto.com

 

[Fishbone Jones]

We need someone that's going to come in and audit the liberal spending, what's missing, who were the beneficiaries and charge the hell out of those responsible. The current government is way to cavalier about the billions that have gone missing. We need someone to cut off all the money going overseas, never to return. I want someone that can stand up and say "Sorry world, we're broke and until we're solvent, we're keeping all of our money. Cover our obligations like NATO and end all the donations to poverty stricken countries, education and all the other projects that only go to administering the project and not the people. We have thousands of destitute Canadians that need to be taken care of before people outside the country. I want to see out resources locked into Canadian corporations and tell China to hands off and shove off.
If we want to get out of this mess that the Liberals intentionally foisted on us, we need a plan. Norway has a great one. They put a small sovereignty tax on all their oil production. It was designed to go into a special fund that could not be touched except to pay down their debt. I believe they are now debt free. I haven't checked for a few years. We could do something similar.

Most of all, I want trudeau and the liberals to be hit with every illegality they perpetrated and I want them held to account, under law and be made an example of.

 

[Rifleman62]

Geewhiz, 30 seconds to Google, and 90 seconds to cut and paste. Could find more quotes in 5 minute, easily.

Trudeau taking to his employer.

Trudeau says ‘fringe minority’ in trucker convoy with ‘unacceptable views’ don’t represent Canadians | Watch News Videos Online

Watch Trudeau says ‘fringe minority’ in trucker convoy with ‘unacceptable views’ don’t represent Canadians Video Online, on GlobalNews.ca

globalnews.ca

Trudeau says ‘fringe minority’ in trucker convoy with ‘unacceptable views’ don’t represent Canadians

Clip resurfaces of Trudeau calling unvaccinated “extremists, misogynists, racists”

In the Sep. 16, 2021 interview which aired on the French-language program La semaine des 4 Julie, Trudeau referred to unvaccinated Canadians as “extremists,” among other derogatory terms.

tnc.news

Clip resurfaces of Trudeau calling unvaccinated “extremists, misogynists, racists”

Sabrina Maddeaux: The danger of Trudeau calling parental rights 'far right'

It is not unreasonable for parents to have concerns about the sudden wave of secrecy in schools around gender identity

nationalpost.com

So the prime minister found a new wedge issue and group to demonize, last week calling those concerned about parental rights “far right” without any regard to reality nor potential consequences. He also accused them of endorsing “cruelty” and “isolation.”

 

[QV]

Trudeau is a stain on parliament. Glad some of you have finally come around to what a huge number of people have known since at least 2017 (giving benefit of doubt for first few years is reasonable even though he was trash in 2015 also). But the propaganda is strong and many of you continue to allow yourself to be victims. The convoy, less the small extreme element that Trudeau and his media machine pedestalized for propaganda purposes, had massive cross country support for what it stood for. PP was right to support that.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Geewhiz, 30 seconds to Google, and 90 seconds to cut and paste. Could find more quotes in 5 minute, easily.

Trudeau taking to his employer.

Trudeau says ‘fringe minority’ in trucker convoy with ‘unacceptable views’ don’t represent Canadians | Watch News Videos Online

Watch Trudeau says ‘fringe minority’ in trucker convoy with ‘unacceptable views’ don’t represent Canadians Video Online, on GlobalNews.ca

globalnews.ca

Clip resurfaces of Trudeau calling unvaccinated “extremists, misogynists, racists”

In the Sep. 16, 2021 interview which aired on the French-language program La semaine des 4 Julie, Trudeau referred to unvaccinated Canadians as “extremists,” among other derogatory terms.

tnc.news

Sabrina Maddeaux: The danger of Trudeau calling parental rights 'far right'

It is not unreasonable for parents to have concerns about the sudden wave of secrecy in schools around gender identity

nationalpost.com

Bound and determined to do as much damage as he can before leaving.

 

[dimsum]

I want someone that can stand up and say "Sorry world, we're broke and until we're solvent, we're keeping all of our money. Cover our obligations like NATO and end all the donations to poverty stricken countries, education and all the other projects that only go to administering the project and not the people. We have thousands of destitute Canadians that need to be taken care of before people outside the country. I want to see out resources locked into Canadian corporations and tell China to hands off and shove off.

That will work up until the rest of the world says “fine - we’re not trading with you now”.

Trudeau is a stain on parliament. Glad some of you have finally come around to what a huge number of people have known since at least 2017 (giving benefit of doubt for first few years is reasonable even though he was trash in 2015 also). But the propaganda is strong and many of you continue to allow yourself to be victims. The convoy, less the small extreme element that Trudeau and his media machine pedestalized for propaganda purposes, had massive cross country support for what it stood for. PP was right to support that.

Who has come around? From the obviously unscientific metric of likes on this forum, it’s pretty galvanized between the two sides on here.

You, Quirky, Fishbone Jones, and sometimes ArmyRick on one side of an argument re Trump, Poilievre, Convoy, etc

Me, Brihard, Remius, Pelorus, TheHead, and sometimes Lumber on the opposite side (KevinB too for Trump-related topics).

 

[Furniture]

Geewhiz, 30 seconds to Google, and 90 seconds to cut and paste. Could find more quotes in 5 minute, easily.

Trudeau taking to his employer.

Trudeau says ‘fringe minority’ in trucker convoy with ‘unacceptable views’ don’t represent Canadians | Watch News Videos Online

Watch Trudeau says ‘fringe minority’ in trucker convoy with ‘unacceptable views’ don’t represent Canadians Video Online, on GlobalNews.ca

globalnews.ca

Clip resurfaces of Trudeau calling unvaccinated “extremists, misogynists, racists”

In the Sep. 16, 2021 interview which aired on the French-language program La semaine des 4 Julie, Trudeau referred to unvaccinated Canadians as “extremists,” among other derogatory terms.

tnc.news

Sabrina Maddeaux: The danger of Trudeau calling parental rights 'far right'

It is not unreasonable for parents to have concerns about the sudden wave of secrecy in schools around gender identity

nationalpost.com

It's different though... Look at his hair, and his socks!

Conservatives are the bad guys, they have a secret agenda don't ya know! So secret they didn't even know it themselves when they held power for nearly a decade.

 

[Quirky]

Trudeau is a stain on parliament. Glad some of you have finally come around to what a huge number of people have known since at least 2017 (giving benefit of doubt for first few years is reasonable even though he was trash in 2015 also). But the propaganda is strong and many of you continue to allow yourself to be victims. The convoy, less the small extreme element that Trudeau and his media machine pedestalized for propaganda purposes, had massive cross country support for what it stood for. PP was right to support that.

Didn’t he show up the first few days with coffee then was pretty much silent once they overstayed their welcome?

 

[Quirky]

TheHead

Who?