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2022 CPC Leadership Discussion: Et tu Redeux

I agree with your premise, generally. However, in 2015 JT deserved no such courtesy. Many of his policies were set to make a mess of things. He campaigned well and the public was fooled into thinking Harper was a demon with a hidden agenda. Economics are going to make or break a country, how are we doing economically as result of JTs efforts? And that was easily predicable.
First, in 2011 and 2015, I was a (gasp) Green Voter. Then I found out about Liz May had a problem with the bottle and was all around, delusional.

In my view, 3 things that catapulted Trudeau to stardom in 2015
1. People got bored with Harper;
2. Trudeau brought his old man's name and the 60-70s era socialist and wanna be marxist experienced rennaissance; and
3. Young people were bought in by the younger (ish) cool "hip" guy with neat slogans.
 
First, in 2011 and 2015, I was a (gasp) Green Voter. Then I found out about Liz May had a problem with the bottle and was all around, delusional.

In my view, 3 things that catapulted Trudeau to stardom in 2015
1. People got bored with Harper;
2. Trudeau brought his old man's name and the 60-70s era socialist and wanna be marxist experienced rennaissance; and
3. Young people were bought in by the younger (ish) cool "hip" guy with neat slogans.

I thought I remembered Harper calling that election with a decent lead over the LPC. I could be wrong. And I also remember it was a really long campaign.
 
First, in 2011 and 2015, I was a (gasp) Green Voter. Then I found out about Liz May had a problem with the bottle and was all around, delusional.

In my view, 3 things that catapulted Trudeau to stardom in 2015
1. People got bored with Harper;
2. Trudeau brought his old man's name and the 60-70s era socialist and wanna be marxist experienced rennaissance; and
3. Young people were bought in by the younger (ish) cool "hip" guy with neat slogans.
Liz May is possibly the most teflon politician in Canada. She basically dances away from criticism constantly and some of her constituents love her in a manner bordering on a cult leader. Having met her personally on a few occasions, I have come away underwhelmed by her basic grasp of reality and her ethics…
 
It is a great paradox of the current political moment that despite federal Conservative leader Pierre Poilievre’s raging hate-on for the mainstream press, we talk about him as though his Prime Ministerial victory is both guaranteed and imminent.

According to Poilievre, mainstream media is a mouthpiece for the PMO. But it is a lousy Liberal mouthpiece that publishes breathless coverage of the Conservative leader’s dominance in the polls more than a year out from the next federal election. It is a lousy Liberal mouthpiece that treats Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s defeat in that race as a foregone conclusion — as so many pundits do. (And, frankly, as I am doing right now).



But letting his guard down comes with its own risk — that Poilievre would have to contend honestly for the first time with the toughest question he may face: who exactly is he without Justin Trudeau?

For despite the candidate’s impressive success in the polls and his churning out of slick, sassy content, Poilievre hasn’t truly defined himself in the eyes of Canadians. He has, rather, defined himself at every turn, in opposition to a hugely unpopular prime minister; a prime minister, it should be noted, whose long in the tooth government is consistently embroiled in scandal.

This fact was front and centre at Poilievre’s recent “Axe the Tax” rally in Toronto where, when asked what brought him there, one enthusiastic attendee told Star reporter Brendan Kennedy: “Trudeau sucks, obviously.”

“Trudeau sucks, obviously” is a neat way of distilling Poilievre’s message to Canadians — a message on which he will likely get elected. But “Trudeau sucks, obviously” is not a message on which to govern, least of all in a future where Justin Trudeau is no longer a going concern.

 
I thought I remembered Harper calling that election with a decent lead over the LPC. I could be wrong. And I also remember it was a really long campaign.
Pretty much yes. He had hoped that the NDP and LPC would run out of money hence the long campaign.
 
There in lies a problem, how will he transform from attack dog to a gracious PM? How will they govern?

And the Conservatives that make it to cabinet (if they win) how will the ministers perform their duties?

Adding: Sorta like revolutionaries who successfully overthrow a government - "how do we rule this country now? I didn't sign up for that!!"
 
There in lies a problem, how will he transform from attack dog to a gracious PM? How will they govern?

And the Conservatives that make it to cabinet (if they win) how will the ministers perform their duties?
I added quotes of the first couple of paragraphs, but that has been my entire question (and why I have a dim view of Poilievre the politician) the entire time since he was running to become the leader of the party.

The follow-on effect is that if Poilievre does become a gracious PM, he risks alienating a percentage of supporters that liked him for his “attack dog” style. They will say that he “sold out”.

I don’t think we had this issue before because whatever the Opposition Leader was like, the expectation (maybe unofficial) was that they would “govern from the centre” if/when they form govt. I’m not sure this expectation still holds.
 
I added quotes of the first couple of paragraphs, but that has been my entire question (and why I have a dim view of Poilievre the politician) the entire time since he was running to become the leader of the party.

The follow-on effect is that if Poilievre does become a gracious PM, he risks alienating a percentage of supporters that liked him for his “attack dog” style. They will say that he “sold out”.
So let me bring a Star Wars reference here: Everyone hated the Empire but for the most part the rebels were trying to unite and all that stuff, but Sol Guerrera would have none of that - he hated the Empire with every fiber of his being.

There are always Sol Guerreras in any crowd.
 
There in lies a problem, how will he transform from attack dog to a gracious PM? How will they govern?

And the Conservatives that make it to cabinet (if they win) how will the ministers perform their duties?

Adding: Sorta like revolutionaries who successfully overthrow a government - "how do we rule this country now? I didn't sign up for that!!"
At this point, literally doing nothing would be an improvement over the constant train wreck bills being added into parliament frequently
 
Sometimes the best COA is to do nothing.
The best CoA is to do proper OPP and assessing the situation before acting.

I don't think a single politician since Pearson really took this to heart. Trudeau has moved from crisis to crisis without realizing he compounds one by "fixing" the other.

Then again, politics in the Information Age is instantaneous thanks to social and news media. Failure to comment or Tweet within moments of a world event are seen as dithering.
 
So let me bring a Star Wars reference here: Everyone hated the Empire but for the most part the rebels were trying to unite and all that stuff, but Sol Guerrera would have none of that - he hated the Empire with every fiber of his being.

There are always Sol Guerreras in any crowd.
At the risk of being pedantic, that's Saw Gerrera. ;)

 
The best CoA is to do proper OPP and assessing the situation before acting.

I don't think a single politician since Pearson really took this to heart. Trudeau has moved from crisis to crisis without realizing he compounds one by "fixing" the other.

Then again, politics in the Information Age is instantaneous thanks to social and news media. Failure to comment or Tweet within moments of a world event are seen as dithering.

Everybody wants action on day one and completion by day 100.

How about giving the civil service a 100 day paid vacation and do nothing for 100 days and see what happens?

Call people back in as problems arise.
 
There in lies a problem, how will he transform from attack dog to a gracious PM? How will they govern?

And the Conservatives that make it to cabinet (if they win) how will the ministers perform their duties?

Adding: Sorta like revolutionaries who successfully overthrow a government - "how do we rule this country now? I didn't sign up for that!!"
They certainly can't do worse than the current bunch of clowns. I don't think they'll have any trouble following these losers.
 
There in lies a problem, how will he transform from attack dog to a gracious PM? How will they govern?

And the Conservatives that make it to cabinet (if they win) how will the ministers perform their duties?

Adding: Sorta like revolutionaries who successfully overthrow a government - "how do we rule this country now? I didn't sign up for that!!"

Its easier to blow up bridges and than to build them. PP had better be ready to get to work.
 
They certainly can't do worse than the current bunch of clowns. I don't think they'll have any trouble following these losers.
They most certainly CAN do worse. There are plenty of examples in history of a new leader or party swooping in to ready the ship and in the end leaving the country worse than it was before. Jsut because you like what they are selling doesn't mean there's no chance it's a lemon.
 
They most certainly CAN do worse. There are plenty of examples in history of a new leader or party swooping in to ready the ship and in the end leaving the country worse than it was before. Jsut because you like what they are selling doesn't mean there's no chance it's a lemon.

Agreed. I am very hopeful, but also ready to be very disappointed.

But you know my stance on politicians.
 
I was actually going to use you as ane example of this; voting Liberal in 2015, what were you thinking Tar! :p
Voting Liberal in 2015 was understandable because Trudeau made a lot of sound promises and had not yet proven himself to be a total flop of a prime minister. I voted green at that time but my second choice would have been Liberal.

I will be clear, when, not if, Pierre becomes Prime Minister, he gets a fair shake from me. He shows lack of integrity, accountability and transparency, I go pull my support for the CPC.

I think of that one scene from the movie Traffic. The drug czar in the USA is replacing the other guy who is in the job. The outgoing guys says to the effect "When I took over this job, I was given two envelopes and told to open them when things get really bad. The first one I opened in a few months and it said "Blame everything on me for this error" and then awhile after I had another problem, the second envelope said "Sit down and write two letters for your replacement..."
 
The next government can improve on the current one simply by not adding any new programs (spending) or undertaking any other new commitments requiring expenditures of resources. Parliament doesn't have to do anything but keep the lights running while everyone else (people, "markets") makes adjustments to the way things are.
 
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