2022 CPC Leadership Discussion: Et tu Redeux

[Halifax Tar]

I will be frank. Many people on army.ca may not recognize their own indoctrination or institutionalization. It is what probably led to their own distrust or dislike of PP.
-If your in the Forces full time, you have an obscured view of the world (I really didn't recognize this in myself until I stopped reg force and class B and C service)
-If you work for the government on any level (Never had to worry about your cheque during the lockdown for example)
-If your in a union (I was for a years in civy life and quickly realized how much our sub-local was used to mostly back the other bigger sub-local, probably why we would cheer the NDP at the meetings and then in private all agree we were never voting NDP)

Basically recognize your own biases.

I was accused of being a "fan boy" but I am very non-partisan (I have stated many times the different parties I have voted for and ten years ago, I was labeled a lefty), he is the ONLY sensible choice for Canada. WE should give him a majority and if he fucks up, we all fire his ass.

Great post.

And just FYI some of working for the Gov penny see things like you to my friend. You have allies on the inside.

 

[Kirkhill]

This. Is. Gold.

She's not wrong. It could be worse ...

 

[Kirkhill]

Treading dangerous ground here - going to bring religion into the discussion.

Many of us were brought up reciting this prayer. Many of us still do, or at least have recourse to it on occasion.

I have, however, come to see it as a cultural marker, a mindset.

"Our Father, which art in heaven.... give us this day our daily bread...."

A lot of us still look upwards in expectation of our daily bread.

 

[TacticalTea]

As for all your long winded explanation of military members

The explanation is not mine, but Maslow's I believe, and it is not particular to military members, in fact it is probably less true for the military than the civil service in general.

It was just a concept that I thought was interesting in light of the points you brought up.

 

[Haggis]

This. Is. Gold.

So, if we invade someone, is our government on par with Russia?

Turks and Caicos seems a nice place to start.

 

[Lumber]

I'm going to enjoy all the qualifying. "Welllll technically......"

I don't know that I ever said he was a zealot or that he catered to zealots, and I know that I was never in the crowd that someone inferred that he was a Nazi because he supported the convoy protestors; however, I did and am in the camp of people who really hated his (quite frankly) dishonest posts on social media. He seems to have gotten better in that regard.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Trudeau also caters to zealots. Probably more so than Poliviere.

Conservative, so called zealots, are defined as right wing extremists.

Liberal/ NDP zealots are defined in groups. Climate, Energy, Humanitarian, Immigration, Food supply, etc. Most of whom cross into more than one category.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

Politics and religion are very fickle topics to debate.

With that in mind, I vote and pray with my own conscience on issues; not on dogma or platforms.

I can admit my skepticism in PP's leadership ability early on. I can also simultaneously agree with his fiscal policy and find his social platform abhorrent. In the end, I will vote as I see fit and watch what happens.

Politics, like religion, is placing a bet on a horse and hoping you come out on top. I clearly remember 2015 voicing my hesitation of having a Trudeau Liberal majority and getting the same shout down I do when I express hesitation on a Polievre CPC majority. I don't think any of them are particularly good for Canada, however, I know at the moment... the LPC under Trudeau has demonstrated their inability to govern with competence.

I will see what happens and hope for the best.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Politics and religion are very fickle topics to debate.

With that in mind, I vote and pray with my own conscience on issues; not on dogma or platforms.

I can admit my skepticism in PP's leadership ability early on. I can also simultaneously agree with his fiscal policy and find his social platform abhorrent. In the end, I will vote as I see fit and watch what happens.

Politics, like religion, is placing a bet on a horse and hoping you come out on top. I clearly remember 2015 voicing my hesitation of having a Trudeau Liberal majority and getting the same shout down I do when I express hesitation on a Polievre CPC majority. I don't think any of them are particularly good for Canada, however, I know at the moment... the LPC under Trudeau has demonstrated their inability to govern with competence.

I will see what happens and hope for the best.

They are all crooked. It's just a matter of how much and what crooked you're willing to put up with.

 

[Remius]

Politics and religion are very fickle topics to debate.

With that in mind, I vote and pray with my own conscience on issues; not on dogma or platforms.

I can admit my skepticism in PP's leadership ability early on. I can also simultaneously agree with his fiscal policy and find his social platform abhorrent. In the end, I will vote as I see fit and watch what happens.

Politics, like religion, is placing a bet on a horse and hoping you come out on top. I clearly remember 2015 voicing my hesitation of having a Trudeau Liberal majority and getting the same shout down I do when I express hesitation on a Polievre CPC majority. I don't think any of them are particularly good for Canada, however, I know at the moment... the LPC under Trudeau has demonstrated their inability to govern with competence.

I will see what happens and hope for the best.

some people can’t accept that some people can chew gum and walk at the same time. Mostly because they can’t. Such is the state of political discourse these days.

 

[TacticalTea]

I don't think any of them are particularly good for Canada

What are you currently wary of when it comes to PP, if you don't mind me asking.

(saying this knowing I'll probably hate him 6-8 years from now)

 

[dimsum]

What are you currently wary of when it comes to PP, if you don't mind me asking.

(saying this knowing I'll probably hate him 6-8 years from now)

I’m not who you’re responding to, but from the beginning the one major thing that makes me wary is his approach. He was an “attack dog” for the CPC under various leaders, and he is still doing that as the Leader of the Opposition. That’s fine when there is the sitting govt to complain about, but what happens when you become the PM?

I have no idea what he will be like as PM. What I do know, so far, is that he doesn’t seem like a “unifying” type of leader. And that worries me.

 

[dapaterson]

Effectiveness as an opposition critic does not necessarily translate into effectiveness in government. Three examples: Nunziata, Tobin and Copps.

 

[Good2Golf]

Are any current party leaders ‘unifying’ at the moment?

 

[rmc_wannabe]

What are you currently wary of when it comes to PP, if you don't mind me asking.

(saying this knowing I'll probably hate him 6-8 years from now)

I made it a personal rule to never trust someone who's pitch in swaying my opinion centres around what they won't do. I am very much centred around how someone would approach things differently, and being sold on ideas. So far, I have seen PP be solid in Opposition, but I have not seen much on how he would govern, outside "reverse everything Trudeau has done... Common Sense Conservativism."

It's, ironically, one of the major reasons I didn't vote Liberal in the past 3 elections. They had no new ideas to offer mainly:

2015: "Harper Bad!"

2019: "Things aren't any better, but Harper was worse."

and

2021: "Things are somehow worse, but remember how bad things were with Harp- I mean... the Conservatives? You don't want that again."

Its hard to stomach that rhetoric and fluff pass for policy in this day and age

 

[YZT580]

I’m not who you’re responding to, but from the beginning the one major thing that makes me wary is his approach. He was an “attack dog” for the CPC under various leaders, and he is still doing that as the Leader of the Opposition. That’s fine when there is the sitting govt to complain about, but what happens when you become the PM?

I have no idea what he will be like as PM. What I do know, so far, is that he doesn’t seem like a “unifying” type of leader. And that worries me.

didn't Cretian go from being an attack dog to PM safely? Just trying to remember what he was like along with Sheila Copps when Mulroney was in charge

 

[TacticalTea]

I made it a personal rule to never trust someone who's pitch in swaying my opinion centres around what they won't do

My distrust of him comes primarily from his unwillingness to clearly define alternative paths as well.

Immigration has been a massive problem under Trudeau, yet PP only deigned to address it after the banks and mainstream medias had finally turned around on the issue.

This kind of speaks to a lack of either moral clarity or courage. Did he just pick up the popular opinion? Or did he just finally decide to speak his once it became safe to do so? I expect better from a national leader.

With that said, however, I wanted to question you on that point because despite my misgivings, there is no doubt in my mind that he would do better than Trudeau, even if his platform consisted strictly of "see what Trudeau is doing? We won't do that". That's how low the bar is.

@dimsum That seems like a problem for his Chief of Staff and Comms director more than the electorate.

 

[Brad Sallows]

There's nothing wrong with "won't do". Refusing to continue some of the policies of the current government, or even merely moderating some such as immigration targets and borrowing, is "won't do".

How much would the difference between the current interest rate, and the current interest rate minus one, be worth to anyone with a mortgage, over the anticipated lifetime of the mortgage?

 

[RangerRay]

Mea culpa. I’m as surprised as many to see Poilievre do so well. But I should have seen it considering how awful Trudeau has proven himself to be. I figured the GTA and Maritimes wouldn’t go for him and stick with Trudeau. As Gurney says, my expectations were a problem.

Having said all that, there is plenty of time for him or another Tory to say/do something stupid, or for soft Dippers, fearing a PP landslide and not being inspired by the current NDP, to go flocking to the Liberals. I haven’t seen a lot from Poilievre about how he will sort things out from our current state. But like Obama, Trudeau and Trump supporters, I see a lot of people pouring their hopes and dreams into an empty vessel of a politician. And never underestimate the oppo work the Liberals are famous for.

Or I could be completely wrong. Things have changed.

 

[RangerRay]

didn't Cretian go from being an attack dog to PM safely? Just trying to remember what he was like along with Sheila Copps when Mulroney was in charge

I remember he left that to Copps et al. He was too busy being Da Liddle Guy.