York U: Flower Power, Pray for Peace!
- Thread starter The Bread Guy
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aluc said:I've been away from Club York over the past two weeks because of various holidays. Now that my Monday night class has resumed, I had the pleasure of walking around a campus plastered with anti-Canadian propaganda courtesy of your friend and mine Ahmed Habib,( vice-president equity for the York Federation of Students). Call me crazy....but I exercised my rights by tearing down as many posters as I could! Although I realise that the majority of the student body really doesn't concern themselves with such left-wing stupidity, I just couldn't handle walking by every door/wall/window and looking at the propaganda this ingrate has strewn all over campus. ( oh yeah ...I almost forgot...he's having another love in today on campus. When does this sorry a** have time to study?)
I wonder where Mr. Habib's sympathies really lie? Although I recognise the danger of pigeonholing individuals based on their names or ancestry, this type of behaviour would be considered to be subversive and indicative of fifth columnists in a nation truly at war.
If Mr. Habib and his family are recent immigrants to Canada, perhaps they should be returned to their nation of origin, if they find the current Canadian regime to be so repulsive.
If the student government at York is like most other campuses there's quite a high probability the vast majority of students they claim to be representing didn't bother voting in their elections. I sometimes wonder if the bitterness shown by some/most "student leaders" is a function of knowing they don't actually matter much in the grand scheme of university affairs.
It must be h*ll leading people who aren't following ;D
It must be h*ll leading people who aren't following ;D
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I think it's crap that they come here and bitch about our army. In fredericton they protested armed forces day being in the city because it scared the refugees. I figure we were kind enough to let them come to our fine country they should have a little respect for the people who defend it. I am by no means a racist. I think it's great that canada is so multi cultural and it's good to learn about others but I take issue with the fact that there seems to be a lack of respect.
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V
visitor
Guest
I am wondering how soldiers reconcile going overseas and possible defending people who don't respect Judaism or Christianity, CF forces, or even Canada, etc. There seems to be great hostility for those sorts of opinions/demonstrations in Canada and I can't help but wonder: Do you see that when you go on a mission, how do you feel about it and how do you motivate yourself to defend the people whose opinions you seem hostile to at home and even to risk your life for them. Please help me to understand this.
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There is nothing to reconcile.
First, this has nothing to do with religion so whether or not someone respects "our" religion, not that there is even such a thing in Canada anymore, is immaterial.
We fully understand that the rhetoric being spewed by folks like these does not reflect the opinions and thoughts of the vast majority of persons who the mouthpieces purport to speak for. Also, as soldiers in a liberal democracy we understand and accept it is our duty to defend the rights of these idiots, and that includes their right to pursue and vocalize positions which we personally and professionally find distasteful. I would guess the issue most here have is they find it hypocritical (and for me it's quite amusing) that the mouthpieces seem to feel that in order to further whatever the "bleeding heart liberal cause du jour" is that they are holding near and dear to their heart at that moment, they feel it is necessary to limit other's rights and freedoms.
First, this has nothing to do with religion so whether or not someone respects "our" religion, not that there is even such a thing in Canada anymore, is immaterial.
We fully understand that the rhetoric being spewed by folks like these does not reflect the opinions and thoughts of the vast majority of persons who the mouthpieces purport to speak for. Also, as soldiers in a liberal democracy we understand and accept it is our duty to defend the rights of these idiots, and that includes their right to pursue and vocalize positions which we personally and professionally find distasteful. I would guess the issue most here have is they find it hypocritical (and for me it's quite amusing) that the mouthpieces seem to feel that in order to further whatever the "bleeding heart liberal cause du jour" is that they are holding near and dear to their heart at that moment, they feel it is necessary to limit other's rights and freedoms.
HDE said:
I can vouch for that - this is the fourth year I've been at SFU (Simon Fraser), and the SFSS (Simon Fraser Student Society) has been constantly unable to meet their quorum at their annual general meeting. This is a quorum of around 500 students out of a student base of roughly 20,000
furthermore, last year's student elections had an unprecedented turnout - because one of the issues on the ballot was a referendum item on a popular transit pass project.
Back to the original topic, I don't think the recruiters have had a problem, they were here along with CSIS and Customs like all the previous years.
V
visitor
Guest
MP00161 Thank you for your response. I agree with you that it should be an issue that is "religion free" but I was confused when other posters brought it into the conversation and I wondered whether that was a popular opinion or not. And I am in 100% agreement with you that it is ironic the protesters want to muzzle those who disagree with them. To my mind, ideally, the University is a place for questioning, for debate, for testing long held beliefs against scrutiny. I am dismayed that the Univ protesters do not realize that all views should be welcome for debate (but not in the form of screaming, name calling, etc.). Now, my stereotype of the military was the opposite of the Univ ideal: following orders, not questioning, etc. But here we have a situation where the students are muzzling and you, a member of CF is defending their right to free argument. Go figure. Another stereotype bites the dust.
Maybe the ideals of the Univ and the CF are paradoxically, not so far apart: the defence of and practice of free speech. And that everywhere there exists those who are instead defensive of questioning or dissent.
Maybe the ideals of the Univ and the CF are paradoxically, not so far apart: the defence of and practice of free speech. And that everywhere there exists those who are instead defensive of questioning or dissent.
(Okay, guys, this is my first post on army.ca, so please be kind.)
This article really made me angry. When I first read it in my own student newspaper (U of A), I sat in my room, by myself, and ranted for 15 minutes. But really, is there anything that we could do? I'm at university now, surrounded by idealists who manage to have little base in reality. I want to try to tell them about the CF, but is there anything I can say? I can quote Canada's victories and sacrifices, go on ad nauseum about how great our men were at Vimy Ridge, Dieppe, etc., Canadian soldiers are going above and beyond their actual duties to try to help people when they are deployed (re-building orphanages, digging wells, etc.), but it doesn't get through. Protestors I've run up against are happy and willing to admit that their grandfathers are vets and deserve heaps and heaps of respect, but don't realise that soldiers/sailors/airmen today are the vets of tomorrow.
It's frustrating for me. I'm a hippie at heart, honestly. But I try to get the facts. Is there any way to go up against propoganda (and, ironically, the counter-culture's developmentally-challenged off-spring) and actually come out ahead? Any thoughts?
This article really made me angry. When I first read it in my own student newspaper (U of A), I sat in my room, by myself, and ranted for 15 minutes. But really, is there anything that we could do? I'm at university now, surrounded by idealists who manage to have little base in reality. I want to try to tell them about the CF, but is there anything I can say? I can quote Canada's victories and sacrifices, go on ad nauseum about how great our men were at Vimy Ridge, Dieppe, etc., Canadian soldiers are going above and beyond their actual duties to try to help people when they are deployed (re-building orphanages, digging wells, etc.), but it doesn't get through. Protestors I've run up against are happy and willing to admit that their grandfathers are vets and deserve heaps and heaps of respect, but don't realise that soldiers/sailors/airmen today are the vets of tomorrow.
It's frustrating for me. I'm a hippie at heart, honestly. But I try to get the facts. Is there any way to go up against propoganda (and, ironically, the counter-culture's developmentally-challenged off-spring) and actually come out ahead? Any thoughts?
Michael Dorosh
Army.ca Veteran
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meg said:
Welcome to the board, first off.
Okay, so much for going easy. *L*
I couldn't think of a worse example of Canadian military "greatness" than Dieppe, frankly, no disrespect to the bravery of the men involved in JUBILEE. Even among military historians there is little merit to what was "accomplished" there, the average citizen would have an even harder time seeing a reason for us to have gone there, at that time, in that fashion. I know it is a knee-jerk thing to throw out well-used words and names, but it is time Canadians as a whole started to cleanse their minds of our military disasters and start to focus on the far more positive achievements - from Currie and Vimy, as you point out, to the Hitler Line, the Scheldt (where we opened the waterway to Antwerp after British 2nd Army dropped the ball), the Rhineland (where Canadian generals commanded more British troops than the British 8th Army had at El Alamein), and other more recent, perhaps even more peaceful, adventures around the world.
You may want to bring up more recent examples in future, and better ones. The award of the Nobel Peace Prize for example is a good start; tends to close mouths in a hurry. Why would an armed force get a peace prize?
Just suggestions; I certainly understand where you are coming from. You illustrate very well an excellent point worth remembering - the Canadian Army can't be some dusty memory that gets trotted out on occasions like August 19th or July 1st; we all have a responsibility for keeping the discussion current and having the Army seem relevant to other Canadians - all Canadians. Sadly, like many things, out of sight equals out of mind.
Brad Sallows
Army.ca Legend
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A rational person - including post-secondary students who are, one hopes, learning to be rational after the throes of adolescence and despite the temptations of majority age - should have no difficulty appreciating modern, voluntary, disciplined, ethical armed forces.
It is manifestly clear that societies and nations can go bad. It isn't admiration for our culture and ideals that keeps nations run by thugs from crushing us under their boot heels and plundering the land. Suppose Europe and North America disarmed. What would you expect to follow?
It is manifestly clear that societies and nations can go bad. It isn't admiration for our culture and ideals that keeps nations run by thugs from crushing us under their boot heels and plundering the land. Suppose Europe and North America disarmed. What would you expect to follow?
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http://www.ubyssey.bc.ca/20051021/article.shtml?<!--5-->Opinion/2let1.html
Recruiters exploit Afghani and Canadians
In response to recent letters to the editor which question the "Canada Out of Afghanistan!" "Recruiters Off Our Campus!" call of students at UBC and CAWOPI:
On July 14, 2005, Canadian Chief of Defense General Rick Hillier announced that 2,000 more troops would be on the ground in Afghanistan by February 2006. At the same press conference, he announced that the Canadian Forces, "...are not the public service of Canada...our job is to be able to kill people." Earlier in the year, the Canadian government announced that the Canadian military budget would be doubled, to $26.8 billion, and 8,000 more troops would be added to the Canadian Forces.
Since the occupation began in 2001, conditions in Afghanistan have become deplorable. One in five Afghan children will not live to see the age of five. The average lifespan in Afghanistan has dropped by 4.5 years to 42 years of age. 80 per cent of the country lives below the poverty line.
As Canada's presence in Afghanistan has increased, particularly in the Kandahar region, we see increasing oppression of Afghans. In reaction to this, attacks on Canadians in Afghanistan have increased. Within the last two weeks, three Canadian soldiers have been wounded, and the Canadian ambassador's residence in Kabul was attacked.
Simultaneously, Canadians at home are increasingly under attack. The average post-secondary student graduates with $25,000 debt. The Canadian military, recognising the financial pressure students are under and looking to add 8,000 troops to its ranks, targets our campuses. The presence of recruiters on campus does not represent a free and fair choice of employment, but rather a capitalisation on the fact that we as students are under increasing financial pressure due to lack of funding for our education. Canadian military presence in Afghanistan does not benefit us as youth in Canada, and it certainly does not benefit the people of Afghanistan. Demanding "Canada out of Afghanistan" and "recruiters off our campus" is a demand for an end to the oppression of the people of Afghanistan and the exploitation of students in Canada.
-The AMS Coalition Against War on the People of Iraq and Internationally
"he announced that the Canadian Forces, "...are not the public service of Canada...our job is to be able to kill people."
"the Canadian government announced that the Canadian military budget would be doubled, to $26.8 billion"
"The average post-secondary student graduates with $25,000 debt. The Canadian military, recognising the financial pressure students are under and looking to add 8,000 troops to its ranks, targets our campuses. The presence of recruiters on campus does not represent a free and fair choice of employment, but rather a capitalisation on the fact that we as students are under increasing financial pressure due to lack of funding for our education. Canadian military presence in Afghanistan does not benefit us as youth in Canada, and it certainly does not benefit the people of Afghanistan."
:rofl: BWWWWWWWWWWAHAHAHA"
Man this is fun. It seems information with these guys gets more contorted than a rumour spreading through a church group.
I've given up argueing with these guys :argument:
from now on I'm going to just post them and have a chuckle every night.
Recruiters exploit Afghani and Canadians
In response to recent letters to the editor which question the "Canada Out of Afghanistan!" "Recruiters Off Our Campus!" call of students at UBC and CAWOPI:
On July 14, 2005, Canadian Chief of Defense General Rick Hillier announced that 2,000 more troops would be on the ground in Afghanistan by February 2006. At the same press conference, he announced that the Canadian Forces, "...are not the public service of Canada...our job is to be able to kill people." Earlier in the year, the Canadian government announced that the Canadian military budget would be doubled, to $26.8 billion, and 8,000 more troops would be added to the Canadian Forces.
Since the occupation began in 2001, conditions in Afghanistan have become deplorable. One in five Afghan children will not live to see the age of five. The average lifespan in Afghanistan has dropped by 4.5 years to 42 years of age. 80 per cent of the country lives below the poverty line.
As Canada's presence in Afghanistan has increased, particularly in the Kandahar region, we see increasing oppression of Afghans. In reaction to this, attacks on Canadians in Afghanistan have increased. Within the last two weeks, three Canadian soldiers have been wounded, and the Canadian ambassador's residence in Kabul was attacked.
Simultaneously, Canadians at home are increasingly under attack. The average post-secondary student graduates with $25,000 debt. The Canadian military, recognising the financial pressure students are under and looking to add 8,000 troops to its ranks, targets our campuses. The presence of recruiters on campus does not represent a free and fair choice of employment, but rather a capitalisation on the fact that we as students are under increasing financial pressure due to lack of funding for our education. Canadian military presence in Afghanistan does not benefit us as youth in Canada, and it certainly does not benefit the people of Afghanistan. Demanding "Canada out of Afghanistan" and "recruiters off our campus" is a demand for an end to the oppression of the people of Afghanistan and the exploitation of students in Canada.
-The AMS Coalition Against War on the People of Iraq and Internationally
"he announced that the Canadian Forces, "...are not the public service of Canada...our job is to be able to kill people."
"the Canadian government announced that the Canadian military budget would be doubled, to $26.8 billion"
"The average post-secondary student graduates with $25,000 debt. The Canadian military, recognising the financial pressure students are under and looking to add 8,000 troops to its ranks, targets our campuses. The presence of recruiters on campus does not represent a free and fair choice of employment, but rather a capitalisation on the fact that we as students are under increasing financial pressure due to lack of funding for our education. Canadian military presence in Afghanistan does not benefit us as youth in Canada, and it certainly does not benefit the people of Afghanistan."
:rofl: BWWWWWWWWWWAHAHAHA"
Man this is fun. It seems information with these guys gets more contorted than a rumour spreading through a church group.
I've given up argueing with these guys :argument:
from now on I'm going to just post them and have a chuckle every night.
I'm a student at UBC and the vast retardness of many of the people around helps me keep my head down and study. I like how people think a university education is their right, I'm incredibly lucky to be here and I'm not going to waste my chance by bothering with these wonderful student advocacy groups.
C
couchcommander
Guest
Hey Meg,
I am at U of A as well, have been posting here on and off for some time (usually really get going, then mid terms or finals will hit and it will stop for some time until I pick it up again).
Re: going against the propaganda... if you're serious, write something too (or for, if you can) the gateway correcting the information. The nice thing about university is that it's a culture were you are more or less free to express your ideas (which means you are more than welcome to respectfully correct the fucking idiots). Of course this means the fucking idiots can also have their say, but that is their right, as it is yours. Usually the reasonable bystanders will side with the most reasonable argument (yours.... hopefully). Though this may not happen right away, you can always at least force them to consider the preconceived notions which are causing their fallacious beliefs.
For myself, I just ensure that if I am involved in any situation where this type of thing is brought up (in class, conversation, parties, whatever), I strike quickly, forcefully, and at the heart of their illusions. Though it is only one or two people at a time (I am far too lazy to write something for the Gateway... hell I am too lazy to even hand in my papers on time
) I feel it is the best I can do for now.
Good Luck with Mid-Terms!
I am at U of A as well, have been posting here on and off for some time (usually really get going, then mid terms or finals will hit and it will stop for some time until I pick it up again).
Re: going against the propaganda... if you're serious, write something too (or for, if you can) the gateway correcting the information. The nice thing about university is that it's a culture were you are more or less free to express your ideas (which means you are more than welcome to respectfully correct the fucking idiots). Of course this means the fucking idiots can also have their say, but that is their right, as it is yours. Usually the reasonable bystanders will side with the most reasonable argument (yours.... hopefully). Though this may not happen right away, you can always at least force them to consider the preconceived notions which are causing their fallacious beliefs.
For myself, I just ensure that if I am involved in any situation where this type of thing is brought up (in class, conversation, parties, whatever), I strike quickly, forcefully, and at the heart of their illusions. Though it is only one or two people at a time (I am far too lazy to write something for the Gateway... hell I am too lazy to even hand in my papers on time
) I feel it is the best I can do for now. Good Luck with Mid-Terms!
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career_radio-checker said:
Anyone that has been there in the last five years can tell you this is an absoulute lie, with no basis in fact.
career_radio-checker said:
While the initial statement may be true about the children, their odds have increased since the coalition has moved into and helped Afgahnistan. Better than the one in three that would not survive before we got there.
As for the rest about the mean age of death, that's another load of politically spun bullshit that is neither provable, nor factual.
It's very easy for these political neophytes to toss out bullshit statistics, which have no study or basis, because it's almost equally hard for the pro side to prove the opposite. The only ones that are qualified to speak on the subject are the people that have been there and dealt with the situations and done studies as part of their work. So by that criteria, I say the coddled, spoon fed brats that have written most of the above crap, have neither witnessed nor experienced that of which they speak. I have, and they are liying sacks o' shyte.
Redbeaver said:
You'd have had to be good too, I would hope. It's lower now, but a few year ago, the entrance requirements gave some of my grad class a sharp wake-up call.
Mentioning universities in this thread must be setting off search results, seems several several university students (me included) have made our first post here
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from the manitoban online
http://umanitoba.ca/manitoban/2005-2006/1026/1016.toban.talkback.php
Toban talkback
Military recruiting on campus
CARSON JEREMA, STAFF
The existence of military recruiters on campus has generated a lot of discussion among many Canadian universities. Late last month at York University, military recruiters who were present at a career fair were forced off campus. According to the Excalibur, York University's student newspaper, protesting students were chanting "Army out of Afghanistan, Army out of York." The students felt that the recruiters were unjustifiably impeding on student space.
At the University of British Columbia (UBC), the Coalition against War on the people of Iraq and Internationally organized a petition to ban military recruiters from UBC and other B.C. universities. Students at other schools such as The University of Guelph have also been debating the issue of recruitment on campus. Further, some university newspapers boycott military advertisement.
Some opponents of recruitment on campus, such as members of the York Federation of Students, argue that Canada's involvement in Afghanistan and Haiti is unjustified. The Coalition against the War on the people of Iraq and Internationally questions the ethics of offering students money to pay for tuition in exchange for military service.
However, as reported by the Ubyssey, the U.B.C's student newspaper, few students will be sent to Afghanistan.
While the debate surrounding the presence of the military at career fairs has not been explicit at the University of Manitoba, the Manitoban wanted to know what some of the student body had to say on the issue.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Theo Jerrett-Enns, University 1
What are your thoughts on military recruitment on campus, or military recruitment directed at students?
It's really up to the student whether or not they're going to pay attention to it. It's not that bad of an idea. It's totally up to the students whether they pay attention to it or not. They shouldn't really mind it being in a career fair. [The military] is definitely a plausible place to go. It's definitely a big part of Canada. There is definitely a huge amount of money and a huge amount of resources for it. It's not like it is a bad thing at all.
So would you say that a career in the armed forces is a legitimate career choice?
Yeah. Definitely.
Do you find Canada's military to be respectable?
Yeah, I think so, especially with the new direction that the Canadian military has gone into. We've started to go a lot more into peacekeeping and there has been less combative military work. The whole DART organization and the rescue efforts that our military does, rather than heading into combat situations.
With that being said, do you feel that Canada's involvement in Afghanistan, where the military is involved in combat situations, is justified?
I think it is quite hard since we are in such a grey area, [Afghanistan's] transitioning from such a war-torn past to a peacekeeping [situation], it has been really hard. If we dropped out entirely, there would be a lot of talk about how Canada's not really doing anything. I think authorities don't know what to do really. They have these two [options] of whether to fight or to stop fighting, and there's people that are for both sides. It is hard to find a balance between the two.
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Fan Hong, English as a Second language program
What are your thoughts on military recruitment on campus?
In my country (Taiwan) we also have soldiers in campuses and high schools. So I think it is okay, I don't feel threatened.
So, do you see the military as a legitimate career choice?
Yeah.
Do you think that Canada's involvement in Afghanistan is justified?
I don't like it.
Could you expand?
I think we need a military just to defend our own country. When you send your soldiers to another country, although you have your own opinion, it is not good.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sean McGuinty, First-year law
What are your thoughts on military recruitment on campus?
I think it's all right. When I did my undergraduate degree I joined the reserves, and they paid my tuition and I was able to graduate without any debt or anything. So I think it was a good thing. I never really had to do anything dangerous.
What do you think of the ads in the washrooms?
I pretty much just ignore them.
So do you see the military as a legitimate career choice?
I wouldn't want to do it myself. It's a really difficult career, and it's a huge change in lifestyle of what other people would lead. You get sent all over the world. You don't really have much choice for your life, but I think it is a legitimate career. I've got a lot of friends who are still in the army.
Do you find Canada's military to be respectable?
Oh yeah.
Do you think Canada's involvement in Afghanistan is justified?
That's a difficult question. I think the way it's being done is pretty bad. I'm not sure if they're being helpful or if they are just aggravating the situation, having all these foreign soldiers there. But I can kind of understand the justification for it. So I don't have an opinion.
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Robin Tarrant, First-year engineering
What are thoughts on military recruitment on campus?
It kind of makes it seem like a job. It is kind of glorifying it and saying, "oh, we'll give you money if you come fight for us."
Do you see the military as a legitimate career choice?
I think it is more of a short-term option instead of a long term one, because lots of people . . . are going into the military to pay for their schooling. I think the [military] is trying to persuade people to join because of that reason.
What are your thoughts on military ads?
I haven't really seen any.
Do you think Canada's military is respectable?
I've never really had any complaints. The only person I've met from the military was in the American military.
Do you think Canada's involvement in Afghanistan is justified?
No, it isn't.
Could you expand on why?
I just don't see how the issue has affected us yet. I don't think we should be there. It isn't really affecting us now and we're just doing it to make the United States happy.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom Rees, First-year law
What are your thoughts on military recruitment on campus, when they come for career fair days, or [other times]?
I think if everyone else is allowed then they should be allowed just the same as everybody else.
What do you think of the ads on campus in the washrooms?
Well, I think they're lame. But then I don't like the army, so if you thought that was cool then you could do it if you wanted.
Would a career in the military be a legitimate choice?
Yeah?
Do you find Canada's military to be respectable?
No, I don't like the military at all. I think it is a legitimate career . . . but it is not respectable enough for me to go into. But if someone thinks that it is good enough for themselves, then everybody's got to make their own choices.
Why wouldn't you join the military?
Because I'm not really down with killing people - that's one part of it. Another part of it is they don't really respect soldiers very much . . . . I don't think they respect people enough. And so I wouldn't want to be disrespected by them. They tell you where to live, and they do all these other things that I'm not down with, but if you're okay with that stuff then be my guest.
Do you find Canada's involvement in Afghanistan to be justified?
No, I'm against that, too.
And why?
I'm against killing civilians, and I think that's sort of what they're doing. Also, I feel that we went to Afghanistan so that we could say we're not going to Iraq. So by supporting people who are going to Iraq [by being in Afghanistan] you are in the same way [supporting] going to Iraq.
Ahhhhhhhh finally...the voice of the masses
http://umanitoba.ca/manitoban/2005-2006/1026/1016.toban.talkback.php
Toban talkback
Military recruiting on campus
CARSON JEREMA, STAFF
The existence of military recruiters on campus has generated a lot of discussion among many Canadian universities. Late last month at York University, military recruiters who were present at a career fair were forced off campus. According to the Excalibur, York University's student newspaper, protesting students were chanting "Army out of Afghanistan, Army out of York." The students felt that the recruiters were unjustifiably impeding on student space.
At the University of British Columbia (UBC), the Coalition against War on the people of Iraq and Internationally organized a petition to ban military recruiters from UBC and other B.C. universities. Students at other schools such as The University of Guelph have also been debating the issue of recruitment on campus. Further, some university newspapers boycott military advertisement.
Some opponents of recruitment on campus, such as members of the York Federation of Students, argue that Canada's involvement in Afghanistan and Haiti is unjustified. The Coalition against the War on the people of Iraq and Internationally questions the ethics of offering students money to pay for tuition in exchange for military service.
However, as reported by the Ubyssey, the U.B.C's student newspaper, few students will be sent to Afghanistan.
While the debate surrounding the presence of the military at career fairs has not been explicit at the University of Manitoba, the Manitoban wanted to know what some of the student body had to say on the issue.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Theo Jerrett-Enns, University 1
What are your thoughts on military recruitment on campus, or military recruitment directed at students?
It's really up to the student whether or not they're going to pay attention to it. It's not that bad of an idea. It's totally up to the students whether they pay attention to it or not. They shouldn't really mind it being in a career fair. [The military] is definitely a plausible place to go. It's definitely a big part of Canada. There is definitely a huge amount of money and a huge amount of resources for it. It's not like it is a bad thing at all.
So would you say that a career in the armed forces is a legitimate career choice?
Yeah. Definitely.
Do you find Canada's military to be respectable?
Yeah, I think so, especially with the new direction that the Canadian military has gone into. We've started to go a lot more into peacekeeping and there has been less combative military work. The whole DART organization and the rescue efforts that our military does, rather than heading into combat situations.
With that being said, do you feel that Canada's involvement in Afghanistan, where the military is involved in combat situations, is justified?
I think it is quite hard since we are in such a grey area, [Afghanistan's] transitioning from such a war-torn past to a peacekeeping [situation], it has been really hard. If we dropped out entirely, there would be a lot of talk about how Canada's not really doing anything. I think authorities don't know what to do really. They have these two [options] of whether to fight or to stop fighting, and there's people that are for both sides. It is hard to find a balance between the two.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fan Hong, English as a Second language program
What are your thoughts on military recruitment on campus?
In my country (Taiwan) we also have soldiers in campuses and high schools. So I think it is okay, I don't feel threatened.
So, do you see the military as a legitimate career choice?
Yeah.
Do you think that Canada's involvement in Afghanistan is justified?
I don't like it.
Could you expand?
I think we need a military just to defend our own country. When you send your soldiers to another country, although you have your own opinion, it is not good.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sean McGuinty, First-year law
What are your thoughts on military recruitment on campus?
I think it's all right. When I did my undergraduate degree I joined the reserves, and they paid my tuition and I was able to graduate without any debt or anything. So I think it was a good thing. I never really had to do anything dangerous.
What do you think of the ads in the washrooms?
I pretty much just ignore them.
So do you see the military as a legitimate career choice?
I wouldn't want to do it myself. It's a really difficult career, and it's a huge change in lifestyle of what other people would lead. You get sent all over the world. You don't really have much choice for your life, but I think it is a legitimate career. I've got a lot of friends who are still in the army.
Do you find Canada's military to be respectable?
Oh yeah.
Do you think Canada's involvement in Afghanistan is justified?
That's a difficult question. I think the way it's being done is pretty bad. I'm not sure if they're being helpful or if they are just aggravating the situation, having all these foreign soldiers there. But I can kind of understand the justification for it. So I don't have an opinion.
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Robin Tarrant, First-year engineering
What are thoughts on military recruitment on campus?
It kind of makes it seem like a job. It is kind of glorifying it and saying, "oh, we'll give you money if you come fight for us."
Do you see the military as a legitimate career choice?
I think it is more of a short-term option instead of a long term one, because lots of people . . . are going into the military to pay for their schooling. I think the [military] is trying to persuade people to join because of that reason.
What are your thoughts on military ads?
I haven't really seen any.
Do you think Canada's military is respectable?
I've never really had any complaints. The only person I've met from the military was in the American military.
Do you think Canada's involvement in Afghanistan is justified?
No, it isn't.
Could you expand on why?
I just don't see how the issue has affected us yet. I don't think we should be there. It isn't really affecting us now and we're just doing it to make the United States happy.
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Tom Rees, First-year law
What are your thoughts on military recruitment on campus, when they come for career fair days, or [other times]?
I think if everyone else is allowed then they should be allowed just the same as everybody else.
What do you think of the ads on campus in the washrooms?
Well, I think they're lame. But then I don't like the army, so if you thought that was cool then you could do it if you wanted.
Would a career in the military be a legitimate choice?
Yeah?
Do you find Canada's military to be respectable?
No, I don't like the military at all. I think it is a legitimate career . . . but it is not respectable enough for me to go into. But if someone thinks that it is good enough for themselves, then everybody's got to make their own choices.
Why wouldn't you join the military?
Because I'm not really down with killing people - that's one part of it. Another part of it is they don't really respect soldiers very much . . . . I don't think they respect people enough. And so I wouldn't want to be disrespected by them. They tell you where to live, and they do all these other things that I'm not down with, but if you're okay with that stuff then be my guest.
Do you find Canada's involvement in Afghanistan to be justified?
No, I'm against that, too.
And why?
I'm against killing civilians, and I think that's sort of what they're doing. Also, I feel that we went to Afghanistan so that we could say we're not going to Iraq. So by supporting people who are going to Iraq [by being in Afghanistan] you are in the same way [supporting] going to Iraq.
Ahhhhhhhh finally...the voice of the masses
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Yeah, seems like the student leaders are out of sync with their followers.
Brad Sallows
Army.ca Legend
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>The presence of recruiters on campus does not represent a free and fair choice of employment, but rather a capitalisation on the fact that we as students are under increasing financial pressure due to lack of funding for our education.
Damn, that's an amusing sentence.
1) If you're in post-secondary education with the hope of improving your job prospects, then why should I pay to help you make more money?
2) If you're in post-secondary education because you're a perpetual student who prefers being a tourist in life, why should I pay to help keep you there?
No matter which way it goes, there's no reason others should pay. And, for those who intend to work, presumably recruiters - of all types, representing public and private interests - are to be appreciated for coming to campus and concentrating at job fairs rather than forcing the students to go out and find the prospective employers.
Simpletons.
Damn, that's an amusing sentence.
1) If you're in post-secondary education with the hope of improving your job prospects, then why should I pay to help you make more money?
2) If you're in post-secondary education because you're a perpetual student who prefers being a tourist in life, why should I pay to help keep you there?
No matter which way it goes, there's no reason others should pay. And, for those who intend to work, presumably recruiters - of all types, representing public and private interests - are to be appreciated for coming to campus and concentrating at job fairs rather than forcing the students to go out and find the prospective employers.
Simpletons.
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