Women in U.S. infantry (USMC, Rangers, etc. - merged)

[cupper]

The Navy is going to open SEAL training to women.

http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/story/military/2015/08/18/women-seals-greenert-losey-buds/31943243/

It will be interesting to see what happens if the Marine Corps chooses to keep their infantry trades closed if The Navy gets a successful female candidate through BUDS, and the Army opens up the Ranger Regiment.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Cutting and pasting someting from another site.  I've heard the story about a general visiting from a few places  now.

Army wanted 200 of the most badass women from the army, guard and reserves to start ranger school in April. The deal was they had to pass RTAC to get a slot.

138 women attended several RTAC classes and 20 passed

The 20 women were put in their own unit to train exclusively for Ranger school in the months preceding their start date. 1 quit before school started.

19 women started Ranger School in April. 

11 failed in the first 3 days: pt test, land nav and road March 

All 8 failed patrols and were inserted into Darby the following class. 

All 8 failed patrols again. 5 were sent home and 3 were offered day 1 recycles.

Nearing the end of their third attempt at Darby, all three had 2 failed patrols, and General Scott Miller (movement excellence commander of Ft Benning) showed up to be their guest walker. All three passed.

All three advanced to Mountains

Nearing the end of the patrol phase of mountains all three women had 2 failed patrols and guess who showed up again to be their guest RI walker..... 2 of the three passed, and one has been recycled. 

Some of the guys I work with here remember Miller from Delta. I'm sure that's not what's being reported, but when we first heard a general had walked them, three of them chimed in with "Scotty Miller" in unison. 

They will pass, and probably be honor grads. "

 

[PuckChaser]

It's a shame if true. I would like to think these highly educated women would see if they're being used, and blow the whistle on the whole operation. It's worse now if this story proves true, than if they just attempted and fail, than to be pushed along by outside interference. For the sake of the integrity of the Ranger school, and the US Army, I really hope it's not true.

 

[dapaterson]

It's a shame if true. I would like to think these highly educated women would see if they're being used, and blow the whistle on the whole operation. It's worse now if this story proves true, than if they just attempted and fail, than to be pushed along by outside interference. For the sake of the integrity of the Ranger school, and the US Army, I really hope it's not true.

Plenty of men have been recycled through Ranger training, only to pass on a subsequent trip through.

 

[Lumber]

I'm not sure I understand the inference. When it says they were "walked through" by Gen. Miller, I sounds to me like he was there just to help motivate them to finish, which to me doesn't seem like a problem? Am I not reading that correctly?

 

[tomahawk6]

Here is a counter to the article that was previously posted.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2015/08/20/ranger-school-officer-combats-rumors-about-how-women-passed-in-pointed-facebook-post/?tid=pm_pop_b

https://www.washingtonpost.com...inted-facebook-post/



Gentlemen,

I am not much for posting on social media, but feel that I should comment on the current situation at Ranger School. First and foremost the Ranger instructors are professional noncommissioned Officers and trained the Ranger students the same way they have since 1952. If you believe nothing else, you should have faith in your fellow Rangers to adhere to their beliefs and the Ranger Creed.



I have spent the last 18 months as the Ranger Training Brigade operations and training officer, and am now the RTB executive officer. I have been part of the process from start to finish and have watched the professionalism of the RIs in each phase. Bottom line; The RIs trained Ranger, period. I had the privilege of having RIs like Sgt. Firsts Class Grenier and Command Sgt. Maj. Purdy in Benning and Sgt. 1st Class Brimstin (now a retired command sergeant major) and Command Sgt. Maj. Edmunds in Mountains and Sgt. 1sts Class Hammond in Florida. Don’t really remember much after that, but I do remember their professionalism and what they taught me and I see the same thing today when I watch the current batch of instructors.

I would like to address a few of the rumors that have been floating around the Internet and to inject fact into the conversation.

1. The female students watched a Ranger Class before they went through the course — This is false. The females did not watch a course prior to coming through. I do find this funny, though. We have the Merrill’s Platoon members who perform operational forces [Editor’s note: Meaning they ambush Ranger students in training sessions] and support duties for RTB and then they end up going through training. Do they get an unfair advantage? NO. The school is hard, and it sucks. You can know the answers, but you still have to perform as evident by the pass rate of the Merrill’s Platoon members.

2. The females were afforded unprecedented recycle opportunities – The women were not afforded any advantage on recycles. They went through Darby Phase, recycled and were Darby inserts. Upon a second failure they were offered a Day 1 recycle. This means they started Day 1 and had to complete the Ranger Assessment Phase a second time. There is no advantage to this. Would any of you volunteered to go through RAP week twice and take a Day 1 recycle? Most people would not as evident by the several men who were also offered a Day 1, but declined. The Day 1 recycle precedent has been in place for many years, and is nothing new. Unless you have been part of the RTB leadership… and have sat on the academic boards you would not know how common it actually is.

3. Command Sgt. Maj. Arnold is the command sergeant major of the RTB and is the most professional NCO I have worked with in 26 years. At no time did he pass anyone on a patrol. Nor did he pressure anyone to pass anyone (Male or female). As with any good NCO, he was out in the field with his RIs. He has walked patrols before the females were here and will walk patrols after. If he wasn’t then there would be complaints that he was the type of NCO who sat in his office and did nothing. He was setting the standard for his subordinate leaders, but had no grading precedent on the patrol.

4. There have been all kinds of accusations that the class got more sleep less physical training and were coddled – That simply did not happen. Just watch the videos that were taken of the Darby Queen [obstacle course]. If you honestly think an RI was going to take it easy on this class, you are mistaken.

5. Packing List – There were no changes to the packing list except for the addition of a few items. There were no additional supplements or vitamins. There was no reduction in weight. It was the same except for the few female-specific items that the women carried.

6. The commanding general [Editor’s note: Miller] walked a patrol in each phase of Class 8-15. It was his 30th anniversary of attending Ranger School. He intentionally did not walk a patrol that a female was being graded on to ensure there was no conflict of interest. The infantry commandant [Editor’s note: Rainey for most of the female soldiers’ time at Ranger School] has walked patrols and so has the CG. This is not unprecedented.

7. Observer/Advisors – This subject has caused a lot of consternation. They are non-grading cadre [of women] who were assigned to the RTB to help. They had no authority and they worked for the chain of command.

8. The ridiculous rumor that President Obama was coming to this graduation and that RIs were told to pass them before they even started Florida is absolutely false. He isn’t/wasn’t coming to graduation. [Editor’s note: A White House official confirmed that is accurate.]

9. The final comment I will say is this. No matter what we at Ranger School say the non-believers will still be non-believers. We could have invited each of you to guest walk the entire course, and you would still not believe, we could have video recorded every patrol and you would still say that we “gave” it away. Nothing we say will change your opinion. I and the rest of our cadre are proud of the conduct of our soldiers, NCOs and officers, they took the mission assigned and performed to the Ranger Standard. Rangers Lead the Way!!!!!

 

[Infanteer]

Nice post - that should pretty much settle any doubts; except haters gotta hate so we'll still be hearing the silly rumours.

 

[jollyjacktar]

I have no doubt these ladies busted their humps with their classmates, fair and square.  They can hold their heads high and wear the Ranger patch with justifiable pride.  BZ!

 

[Jarnhamar]

Nice post - that should pretty much settle any doubts; except haters gotta hate so we'll still be hearing the silly rumours.

For sure.  Some people will never let it rest. They can't stand the US military catching up to the rest of us in 2015.

 

[dimsum]

For sure.  Some people will never let it rest. They can't stand the US military catching up to the rest of us in 2015.

And Australian Army - they were talking about integrating women into Combat Arms trades back in 2012 but don't think it has progressed beyond that.

 

[tomahawk6]

Their names have been released 1st Lt. Shaye Haver and Capt. Kristen Griest.Haver is an Apache pilot and Griest is an MP.

http://news.yahoo.com/army-pilot-military-cop-1st-women-pass-ranger-090909029.html

 

[cupper]

This point from the article (saw the interview clips on tonights news) says all that needs to be said:

Several male classmates chosen by the Army to attend a news conference with Griest and Haver acknowledged they too weren't sure at first that female soldiers could handle long marches and patrols carrying rucksacks, rifles and other gear weighing 100 pounds or more.

Spc. Christopher Carvalho, a medic in the same Ranger school class, said his skepticism ended on the first road march when the women left many of their male counterparts far behind.

"Right then and there that's what validated me to say these women are here to stay," Carvalho said.

Classmates 2nd Lt. Michael Janowski and 2nd Lt. Zachary Hanger both told of how Haver and Griest jumped in to help carry heavy loads when other male trainees were too fatigued to assist.

Hanger called the women "absolutely physical studs."

 

[cupper]

Heard an interesting take on how the Army approached this from a pundit on a news show I caught yesterday.

He basically said that the Army had a choice when the directive was issued to determine what combat arms positions would be opened to women come 2016.

The logical and expected path would have been to open up combat arms trades and limit initial employment to units not scheduled to deploy until there was a general acceptance of women in the combat arms ranks. Then you could keep the SF closed as a tradeoff for opening up conventional units.

OR

You could take the approach they did and go all in and open Ranger School to female candidates. Once you've had a successful completion of the course by females you have removed the argument that women are not capable.

 

[tomahawk6]

Its a tough course for soldiers of both genders and the drop out rate is very high.It was my experience that it weeded out those who were not very motivated.Many of the drops historically have been the result of injuries.Running on forest trails in the dark causes injuries.So while I applaud the female graduates they are what 2% of those that turned out initially ? Lets keep this achievement in perspective.

 

[George Wallace]

An update.

A good read, from a member of their graduating class.  Very positive atmosphere and lots of respect for the two amongst the Ranger community.

http://sofrep.com/42761/really-happened-women-ranger-school-class-06-15/

 

[LightFighter]

A good read, from a member of their graduating class.

To clarify, the author wasn't part of the graduating class(08-15) with the female Rangers. His class(06-15) was the first class to have the female students until they were recycled into another class or dropped(RTU) from training during Darby phase.


Good article though, along with others saying the standards were held, etc. However no matter how many of these types of articles come out, I'm sure many people will still claim they had it easy and were held to a lower standard.

 

[George Wallace]

...... However no matter how many of these types of articles come out, I'm sure many people will still claim they had it easy and were held to a lower standard.

That seems to be the common theme.  We just went through a similar spat of posts reference women in SAR.  Some people will just not accept that there are exceptional, talented, and motivated people of any gender, race, etc. who can achieve the high standards set on demanding courses. 

 

[Kirkhill]

That seems to be the common theme.  We just went through a similar spat of posts reference women in SAR.  Some people will just not accept that there are exceptional, talented, and motivated people of any gender, race, etc. who can achieve the high standards set on demanding courses.

:goodpost:

 

[The Bread Guy]

That seems to be the common theme.  We just went through a similar spat of posts reference women in SAR.  Some people will just not accept that there are exceptional, talented, and motivated people of any gender, race, etc. who can achieve the high standards set on demanding courses.

Sad but true ....

 

[cupper]

Some people will just not accept that there are exceptional, talented, and motivated people of any gender, race, etc. who can achieve the high standards set on demanding courses. 

Also known as Taylor Swiftism ©