War Museum Controversy and Follow-up Thread [merged]

[Bruce Monkhouse]

I agree with the Legion stand, it happened and attempts to gloss over the "un nice" stuff does no justice to those who we honour.

I find the statement "some 10,000 Canadian Airborne Regiment men have been put to shame" is unwarrented.
The shame belongs to the people involved in the original scenario and to the back-stabbing polititions of the day.

 

[Roger]

I find the statement "some 10,000 Canadian Airborne Regiment men have been put to shame" is unwarrented.

The shame I refer to is the shame of disbandment.... It is a pain I suffer everyday, I was with the CAR a short time in the 70's but the disbandment hust as much as the members that where on parade....

 

[Marty]

Shameful as is might be , its still part on our history . We don't get to pick and choose . You have to take the good with the bad ..........there must be hundreds of cliches

 

[KevinB]

Makes me want to puke.

I mean WTF maybe we should have a painting of WWII Germans getting machine gunned as POW's ?

Or some FYR mental patients being "serviced" by CANBAT pers...

Or maybe a Afghan kid getting run down by a CF vehicle?


Why the need to memorialize a shameful event?  Yeah it happened but deal with it, and soldier on.

 

[Roger]

Shameful as is might be , its still part on our history . We don't get to pick and choose . You have to take the good with the bad ..........there must be hundreds of cliches

Yes well how would you feel if it was your Regiment, I feel like a dog who has to get my nose shoved in the S**t.

 

[2 Cdo]

KevinB, good post. There is no need for that picture to be in the museum when there was plenty of good that the Airborne Regiment did over it's life that could be displayed! How does a museum that purports to honour those who served/serving with this piece of inflammatory crap! Sorry but this museum will NEVER see a nickel of mine due to this disgusting slap in the face!

Once again time to honour that Canadian tradition of finding fault with anything remotely associated with real soldiering! The Airborne was our premiere fighting force for many years and due to the actions of a few arseholes and politicians this is how they will be remembered!

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Hey to be truthful I don't want it there either, however, what I HOPE the curators are trying to do is not give the anti-military types any ammo to say that "we are covering up atrocities/etc" : You know this is Canada and heaven forbid the press would let us worship Canadian heroes.
We can say, with our heads held high, here is our history.....deal with it or #$%& #@&*.
I, personally, would rather be pro-active than re-active.
.......not to mention I would like to see the context of how it is presented BEFORE I make a judgement.

 

[BruceR]

I haven't seen the work in question, but I spent the better part of a week in a command post last year with Ms. Kearns, who is a CF-commissioned war artist. I found her to be an empathetic and intelligent individual, with a natural affinity for soldiers and soldiering, and a sincere determination to capture their stories truthfully. For what it's worth.

 

[BruceR]

I haven't seen the Somalia images, but you can see some of artist Gertrude Kearns' Dallaire-Rwanda images here, in case you're curious: http://www.carleton.ca/jmc/mediagenocide/background/kearns.html.

 

[Canadian Sig]

This just makes me wish I was allowed to stand out front on opening day with a sign to tell all why this troop will not go in. I was looking quite forward to seeing the new museum and now I'm not sure I ever will. I know a whole lot of troops who's pictures deserve a place of prominence rather than these two. Just my $.02 

 

[Canadian Sig]

Just sent a letter off to the following address and I would encourage those who disagree with these paintings inclusion to do likewise.

grandopening@warmuseum.ca

 

[Zartan]

While I think it important for a country to admit the mistakes that has occured in its past, (lest they become self-righteous), did anyone really have to get a person to paint a painting commemorating this? "I know, let's commission  someone to immortalize one of the biggest disasters we (Canada) have ever been responsible for. That should win the hearts and minds of Canadians."
This is probably going to be a PR nightmare. Some elementary class is going to take a tour of the museum, and when they go home, all they are going to ask is "why were they mean to the Somali?" They won't remember any of the great things the Armed Forces are responsible for that they would have learned in the museum. Civilians will complain about revisiting this.
I expect that picture to be removed within the year. How typical.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

How does a museum that purports to honour those who served/serving

I'm sorry, is THAT what a museum does?  I thought it was about preserving history - true and unvarnished...

How can anyone refuse to set foot in a building because of a display they've never seen?  ???  Judge it in context.  It does sound ill-advised, but if anyone can point to a bigger "Army" story of the 1990s, feel free.  Medak Pocket?  Sure, but it was unpublicized at the time.  Good or bad, the Somalia affair is the first thing anyone thinks about when you mention the CF in the 90s.

 

[Canadian Sig]

Good or bad, the Somalia affair is the first thing anyone thinks about when you mention the CF in the 90s.

Agreed, and as long as we stay quiet that is all they will think of.

Sorry, not me. 

 

[Roger]

How can anyone refuse to set foot in a building because of a display they've never seen?   ???   Judge it in context.

The point is the Liberal government of the time used the press of what happened to disband an expensive unit when they where looking everywhere to cut spending. I would have no problem with the painting if the Canadian Airborne Regiment who at the time had between 700 and 1,000 men serving at the time, who have had some 10,000 serve from WWII till disbandment had not used the issue to forward their position. What about a painting of the troopers who where killed on ex in Petewawa, or the troopers killed in Cyprus in the 70's. No, use a painting that served a Liberal cause to disband the CAR, where was all the press in all of the good things the CAR had done. The Canadian Airborne Regiment will always be remembered for that incident because it was in all of the papers and television for 2 years over and over and over and over. I am sure if it was a reservist from the Calgary Highlanders that was involved in the incident and the Calgary Highlanders where disbanded you would have a different view.

 

[Canadian Sig]

Seems to me that this is just a very sad legacy to remind the public of considering it is a "fallen Jumper" parade in Pet this Sunday and those are CAR pers who deserve a painting in prominence at "our" (Canada's) museum.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

The point is the Liberal government of the time used the press of what happened to disband an expensive unit when they where looking everywhere to cut spending. I would have no problem with the painting if the Canadian Airborne Regiment who at the time had between 700 and 1,000 men serving at the time, who have had some 10,000 serve from WWII till disbandment had not used the issue to forward their position. What about a painting of the troopers who where killed on ex in Petewawa, or the troopers killed in Cyprus in the 70's. No, use a painting that served a Liberal cause to disband the CAR, where was all the press in all of the good things the CAR had done. The Canadian Airborne Regiment will always be remembered for that incident because it was in all of the papers and television for 2 years over and over and over and over. I am sure if it was a reservist from the Calgary Highlanders that was involved in the incident and the Calgary Highlanders where disbanded you would have a different view.

If the Calgary Highlanders brutally murdered a teenage civilian detainee, performed hazing rituals on new soldiers, and exceeded their rules of engagement, they would deserve to be disbanded, but that's another argument I won't go into again here.

The painting itself - out of context as it is on the link provided - doesn't seem to fit in with what I would anticipate a museum display is supposed to do.  If it is part of a larger display about the Airborne Regiment, it might be different.  I will hopefully see the entire museum one of these days and be able to make a more informed judgement then.

 

[Canadian Sig]

Still think I will save my money to visit the Museum of the Regiments next time I'm near home.

 

[KevinB]

If the Calgary Highlanders brutally murdered a teenage civilian detainee, performed hazing rituals on new soldiers, and exceeded their rules of engagement, they would deserve to be disbanded, but that's another argument I won't go into again here.

:
WTF dude,

I cant really comprehend where your pulling that from - other than taking ISOLATED instances and using a BROAD brush to paint people and a unit unfairly with.   Do you have any idea WHAT the ROE where for Somalia?   Do you know that many troops where cited by the US for heroism and bravery.  

edit:
Michael I am extremely disappoint with your point of view, since your are a soldier and articulate and reasonably intelligent, I just can't follow your point of view as you have explained it here.

 

[Britney Spears]

And I thought the tacvest thread would never die.......