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UNAUTHORIZED DISPOSAL OF COMBAT UNIFORMS AND EQUIPMENT

CI Phlipster, every now an then(when CADPAT first came out, Ebay was loaded with it) you will find real Issue cadpat, they even come with the manuels(like the tac vest)


a quick search on ebay.ca and I found these items(only listing a few, theres to much cadpat kit on ebay to list it all here)

Helmet with CADPAT cam cover
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=36068&item=2240865386&rd=1

CADPAT Boonie Hat
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=36068&item=2240975672&rd=1

Slip Ons
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=36068&item=2241323941&rd=1
 
Just a little history on the development of the CADPAT project. I personally was involved in the second round of trials for the Air Force. During round one, it came to the attention of the CDS that the Army and the Air Force were looking at the same patterns for a new working uniform. So the two projects were told to combine. The biggest problem for the Air Force was the requirement for anti-FOD (Foreign Object Damage) pockets and a material that is anti-static.

The Air Force pockets were originally flat and closed with Velcro, but the Army didn't like the Velcro for very obvious reasons. So a compromise was made with covered buttons.

As for the uncovered button CADPAT that are currently being issued, it was an interm operational issue.

The new issue is to start with in the next three months, with 19 Wing Comox as the test issue site.
 
I beleave that the issue only applies to Bases/Wings/Units that have not as of yet recieved their first issue. Even on my Wing I have seen support people how have been on deployment over sea with part of both on, ie. covered button shirt and uncovered button pants.
 
I got my full mk2 CADPAT january. 3 sets, all with the covered pckets. the guys who went over to afghanistan came back with the mk1 version. go figure.
 
Well back to Crown Assets. I Been too there sales and have seen more Kit that you would dream off. From Gortex Jackets,Boots.Lots of OD CBTS I have seen LBVs in OD green. There seems to be very little Cadpat uniforms but yes its starting to go Crown Assets. Its upto Base R&D to destroy this stuff but they are not. That why you are starting to see it on EBAY.

The Best Bid Wins::
 
The huge majority of CADPAT on ebay are frontenac(fake).

about 98%. The majority of real CADPAT is only the boonie.

Why risk owning issued gear and get caught...

Convert your frontenacs to like-issued condition...

I‘l post a photo of myfrontenacs that I hemmed and converted to issued like state.
 
Originally posted by Tpr.Orange:
[qb] The fake cadpat isn‘t based on the NANO pixle design surrounding a maple leaf


that is how you know if the cadpat is real. Cadpat is based around a maple leaf design and the MARPAT used by marines is based around there logo of the eagle on a globe. Its extremely hard to spot but thats how you tell. [/qb]
What the **** are you talking about?!? MARPAT is not based around the eagle and globe logo, I would know, my cousin is a marine and he‘s shown me his MARPAT uniform.(very cool I might add but I don‘t like the elastic waist thing) They do have however, small eagle and globe logos clearly embedded throughout the fabric and CADPAT is not based around some maple leaf design either. A complex computer algorythm loosly based on many many digital pictures of common terrain is what produces the pattern. The algorythm for CADPAT is owned by the Canadian Government, hence the reason the Americans had to develope their own design and colour scheme. CADPAT material is available for sale to/by a select few licenced textile companies and the Canadian government gets a share of the proceeds on non military CADPAT sales. It is illegal for those select textile companies or anyone to produce current issue military clothes or kit in CADPAT for civilian consumption however they do produce "look alikes" with the authentic CADPAT material. For example, the CADPAT pants for sale at most surplus stores are clearly made with real CADPAT material but they don‘t have re-enforced knees and butt, or metal zippers etc. etc. Any soldier on this forum could easily see the differences between issued and bought CADPAT clothing if they were to go to a surplus store even though the material/pattern is the same. As for you Tpr. Orange, I suggest you do a lot more reading on CADPAT and MARPAT before you post such obviously ill-informed replies.

I did have a more official site to dispell Trp. Orange‘s all too common false views but I seem to have lost the link, however if you look at the large MARPAT example about halfway down the page in the following website, http://www.mcaroy.com/cadpat.htm
you will see in the bottom left corner a small green marine logo in the middle of a brown blotch. It is not pixallated like the rest of the pattern but a clear small logo and you can even almost make out the USMC letters.

I‘ll look for that website since it was more detailed and I‘ll post it if you guys are still interested.
 
I'd like to chime in on this matter:

It *is not* illegal for any person to possess Cadpat items.

It *is* illegal to possess stolen Cadpat items.

It *is* illegal for a store to sell brand new Canadian Forces issue/spec items that they have purchased from the CF's supplier.

It *is not* illegal for a store to sell brand new CF issue items that they have purchased as surplus from the CF.

So...if you go on EBay or whatever, and purchase stolen goods...that's bad.  You may be charged with possession of property obtained by crime.  If you purchased it from a person or store that bought it as surplus from the CF, you have just paid a lot of money for something that will be available much cheaper in the future.

Seeing as how there is no law that states you have to carry a receipt for clothes that you're actually wearing, it is extremely unlikely that you will get in trouble for wearing Cadpat.  Now, if you go on a CF base/station/detachment/whatever...that's a different story, as you're voluntarily on the base and are subject to the local rules & regs.

How does something get listed as surplus, and how come brand new stuff is showing up?  Well, when it comes to new items, be they gadgets or clothes or whatever, we want to see if we can get a better deal from the manufacturer by generating further sales.  If the allies buys the stuff too, the price goes down.  So how do we get them interested?  By giving some 'evaluation' items to our allies, for their own, internal R&D.  So, the UK gets, say, 50 sets of Cadpat to put through the paces to see if they would like it.  Maybe their R&D guys have already gotten some through...er..."trading", and have decided that they don't want anything to do with it.  Bam!  50 sets of Cadpat are now available for the retail public.  (R&D, or R&E people have all the fun, and are the best "traders" in military, police, or fire department circles, bar none.  Granted...some projects suck...like, let's try the new vegetarian and tofu IMP...)

Whaaa!  We don't have our stuff yet...how come Ottawa is giving it to the US, UK, etc?

Heh.  Welcome to procurement practices.  If we *might* be able to get the price down, just by giving away a few hundred sets, it's worth it in the long run.  Short term losses *may* equal long term savings.

Don't get me wrong, though.  I think it's criminal that Arid Cadpat was not available for Afghan bound troops.
 
CI Phlipster said:
I had, in my possession a CADPAT Gortex parka on base, and during a kit check I had it confiscated. Since I was not entitled one I did notget it back. BOO URNS!

Well, I was peeved.

And you expect us to be sympathetic?  That was pretty stupid!
 
I was a bit miffed when I went into CFB Kignston clothing stores tog et my CADPAt (I'm an infantry reservist, and only recently got it. I'm doing my SQ right now, and BIQ later in the summer). I got three pants with the covered pockets, and three shirts with the uncovered ones. I grimaced, and mentioned to the supply private that I'd probably get jacked up for mixing Mk 1 and Mk 2, but he told me to just say 'kit deficiency' and tell them that's what I was issued. Anyway, happy ending, my course has less of the petty BS than I expected, adn I haven't been jacked up for the mix. I still hope to swap my shirts for covered ones at some point, though I realize the chances of pulling that off for the near future are slim.

About CADPAT in general, the brand new recruits into the reserves are getting it now. There's a whole BMQ course going at CFB Kingston right now is wearing it. That's actually kind of funny, since a few of the people on the SQ course with me, mostly hose from the Brock Rifles, are still in OD greens. Unfortunately, their unit neglected to sign them up for the MIMS system, so they can't draw it from the CFB Kingston stores. Either way, they'll be QL3 qualified at the end of the summer regardless, so they'll get all the great kit, IECS, etc. I got lucky when I went in to stores- I got my wet weather boots, goretex glvoes (OD cuffs, not CADPAT), new sock system, etc. The socks especialyl are great. I value them as much as any of my gear. Whoever designed the sock system is a bloody genius...
 
Lol, I've never been beat up and the closest I've come to being beat up was being punched once and before I had a chance to punch back about 40 people swarmed the other guy and did it for me, I guess I'm just that well liked  :D  And I said I wanted to be a soldier, I said nothing about being a commando and the fact that you would jump on me leads me to believe you have some deep seeded psycological problems, maybe from you being beat up as a kid. Anyways this is way off topic, if anyone wants to make strange accusations towards my popularity then send an IM so the rest of us can deiscuse the legal sale of CADPATS. [/qb]Then explain exactly when and where your wear your cadpat?....

Well, even if he is an air cadet, they still take part in survival training (aka Aircrew Survival), as sea cadets take part in a similar training. Both events are meant to prepare them , the cadet, for situations that could possibly occur in their training. You're probly asking "That doesn't explain why they would wear combats, especially Cadpats"; however, since the cadet program in general is meant to promont an intrest in the military it would seem natural that people in this program would like to look like the people they admire and wish to become someday. Not to mention the fact that combats are the ideal clothes for these "survival" situations.

Now, those of you that think only military personal should have Cadpats, whats exactly is your problem? I have no problem seeing a civilain in combats, in OD's or CadPats (as long as they are not stolen). Ask yourself  exactly why you dont like others wearing it. It's not as if the majority walk around all the time in them. Most people have them for situations where they come in handy, such as hunting, camping, war games (paint-ball), and beat-a-round clothes.

Just a question or two, those of you that complain about others (civis) wearing cadpats, have you been issued any yet? Do you have any problem with civis wearing OD's? What exactly is the difference between OD's and Cadpats? They are both standard issue, for now.

Another point, if you get upset about civi's wearing combats, do any of you have any sports jerseys? I know its not the same thing, but its the same idea; if you see a cadet wearing combats (OD's Or Cadpats) why dont you feel proud instead of jealous or upset? This kid is probly looking up to you, wishing, someday, to be like you.
 
Ranger Al said:
Just a question or two, those of you that complain about others (civis) wearing cadpats, have you been issued any yet? Do you have any problem with civis wearing OD's? What exactly is the difference between OD's and Cadpats? They are both standard issue, for now.

Another point, if you get upset about civi's wearing combats, do any of you have any sports jerseys? I know its not the same thing, but its the same idea; if you see a cadet wearing combats (OD's Or Cadpats) why dont you feel proud instead of jealous or upset? This kid is probly looking up to you, wishing, someday, to be like you.


Your right, sport jerseys are not the same thing. I don't care about someone being mistaken for a sports player. I don't care about Cadets in uniform as long as it's worn properly. What I do have a problem with is a dorky, slovenly civvie prancing around in a uniform. The first thing people think about when they see that is the military, some don't realize he's just a goof with misplaced priorities.
 
Now that I agree with. I have no problem with civis waering any combats, as long as it is worn properly, and they are respectable. People really do automaticly assume someone is in the military when they see the combats; and that is diffently something to get pissed at. It pisses me off when i see a civi in combats acting like an ass, but what i truly dissagree with is the way people shoot-off about cadpat being in surplus and they havent got it yet. It's not so bad now, as that most places are issued cadpat, I believe some reserveist are still waiting. It's a fairly slow process, but as the CF motto goes; "Hurry up, and wait!"
 
Personally I dont believe cadets should be getting CADPAT.
It's likely that their are people in the CF who still have OD's, give them the CADPAT first.


As for civies walking around in combats.  It really depends on the situation.  I have seen tradesmen, fishermen, campers where the old OD pants because they serve those purposes well.  If it's OD's than it's not really a big deal.

As for cadpat, your not going to see as many civies wearing that as OD (at least I haven't) so it's not really a big deal right now.  The average person who sees someone wearing a cadpat shirt with a pair of jeans is just going to think they are a goof before thinking poorly of the army.  Aslong as we dont have people impersonating soldiers from the PPCLI, in the subway claiming they faught in afghanistan, than we really dont have a big problem.

 
Hats off to Franko!  His gut instinct was right ...

Franko said:
Probably a leak in the supply chain. Can't see it being a soldier who is actually responsable for his kit. At least not in that quantity.

http://www.canada.com/edmonton/edmo....html?id=519bf705-bbb1-4883-a90c-d7df543ee3f0

State-of-the-art uniforms sold by mistake
Jim Farrell
The Edmonton Journal, October 26, 2004


MORINVILLE - A military surplus dealer wonders how he will recoup his investment in what could be the civilian world's biggest collection of state-of-the-art camouflage clothing.

In August, the army threatened to arrest Scott Collacutt if he sold his 3,500 cadpat "Canadian Disruptive Pattern" uniforms.

Collacutt, owner of Morinville's CEL Army Surplus, purchased the uniforms sight-unseen from Edmonton Garrison as scrap textiles.

The uniforms were buried within shipments of assorted cast-off military clothing that Collacutt buys on spec. After buying the clothing, Collacutt and his employees rummage through the boxes to find things to sell. Anything that can't be sold is trashed.

The factory-second or damaged uniforms began appearing in his boxes in the summer of 2002, within months of first being supplied to Canadian soldiers, Collacutt said. This was about the time the military declared them "controlled goods" that must be mutilated or burned rather than sold when worn out or damaged.

"I wasn't told about this until I got a phone call on July 27 of this year," said Collacutt, who has already sold some of the uniforms to a movie supply company in Vancouver. Other uniforms have been sold to soldiers whose own needed replacing.

"Ninety per cent of my business is with the regular force or the cadets," he said.

To broaden his market, Collacutt gave 50 uniforms to a colleague who took them to Las Vegas, where he distributed them at a convention of military surplus dealers.

On Sept. 2, 37 days after the military informed him in a letter he would have to return the uniforms or face charges, Collacutt got his first indication he'd hit pay dirt.

"I'm looking for 500 pair of the Canadian camouflage uniforms in assorted sizes as soon as possible," a co-owner of Mad Dog Wholesale in Chico, Calif., informed him in a fax.

"I will need this amount approximately every 60 days," Dutch Padgett wrote.

American hunters would love to own one of the Canadian uniforms, Padgett told The Journal on Monday.

"Any kind of (camouflage) is good," said Padgett. "Cadpat is special because it's the newest thing out there."

American hunters would pay plenty for the newest thing in camouflage, Collacutt said.

"The uniforms I have could retail (for) $150 and up. I could probably get $90 wholesale."

Researchers first began working on

the Canadian design in 1988, looking for a "disruptive" pattern that would trick the human eye.

Eventually, they came up with a computer-generated design of small rectangles, called "pixelation," which had to be reproduced on fabric with exacting accuracy.

At one time the U.S. Marines considered adopting the design for its new pattern but the Canadian government owns the copyright.

To assist the Marines, the Canadians supplied information to help them develop their own computer-generated pixelated uniform.

To date, American military surplus dealers have been unable to get their hands on any new marine uniforms, Padgett said.

"They want to control it."

So does the Canadian army.

"We would prefer if this not be walking out there," said Maj. Scott Lundy, public affairs officer for the Edmonton-based Land Force Western Area.

Collacutt can understand why the Canadian army changed its mind about the uniforms.

Following the destruction of the World Trade Center, militaries everywhere clamped down on sales of equipment, fearing terrorists or others might disguise themselves as bona fide soldiers, he said.

The commanding officer of Edmonton Garrison's 1 General Support Battalion denies there's a security risk. Because of illicit sales, plenty of uniforms have made it on to the civilian market, Lt.-Col. John MacKay said.

Nevertheless, these uniforms shouldn't have been put up for sale.

"It was a bad error," MacKay said. "We have fixed the process."

In exchange for returning 30 large boxes of uniforms, the military is offering 30 boxes of "scrap textile" plus an extra 15 boxes "in compensation for your time and effort," Collacutt said.

When he originally bought the boxes of mixed cast-off clothing, Collacutt paid approximately $2 a pound.

To return the uniforms scavenged from those loads, he now wants $159,000, plus $5,000 in legal fees, $3,600 in lost wages and a one-year extension on his contracts with the military.

If a deal is struck, the military will haul away the uniforms and burn or shred them.

jfarrell@thejournal.canwest.com
 
I was just speaking on an Airsoft message board, and some guys were talking about buying the CF Tac Vest.  I mentioned it being illegal to sell such an item, and one invidual said the guy selling it had, and I quote, "paper work to show that the CF had in fact approved the sale of those items to him, and that paperwork has been verified to be authentic."

Just wondering if it's possible?
 
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