U.S. Military Deserters in Canada Megathread

[Michael Dorosh]

Wow, so Jack is saying that we value busting a contract just to get out of doing something our job requires of us? I wonder if he would be so supportive if any member of the CF decided to desert because they didn't want to go to say, Afghanistan? This man is all the more reason to never vote NDP.

I'd love to see Jack yhelp if they broke his golden-plated pension contract...

 

[Danjanou]

I will also confess...that I have met Jack a few times and am surprised that a man who is that sharp would come up with stuff like this.

I'm surprised that you consider Jack sharp.  ;D Yappy, self righteous, opinionated- sure, over educated and boorish- most likely, sharp naah.

For the record the Co-op was market rent (I used to live next to it ). Not sure though if they were originally paying market rent though 8) And IIRC at that time in pre Condo boom in downtown TO "market rent" for a down town co-op was significantly lower than real rent for a private for profit apt building due to the low vacancy rates and land lords charging whatever they could get for a unit. Either way you look at it Jack and Olivia were getting a sweet deal especially considering their then combined salaries as City Council types.

Speaking of Olivia anyone read this month's Toronto Life article that basically implies she or her supporters were guilty of voter fraud in the last election? :

 

[a_majoor]

Jump to this topic and read the article. It may have interesting insight into what is actually going on inside Smiling Jack's head:

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/42941.0.html

 

[RangerRay]

The deserters should be arrested and returned to the American authorities poste haste.  They are fugitives from a country with whom we have an extradition treaty with.  If they are so "principled" then they should be more than willing to do their time in Leavensworth like real men (or women, if the case may be).  To me, they are worse than draft dodgers.  Deserters signed on the dotted line, trained and served with their mates, then deserted their mates when they needed him most.  Draft dodgers never signed anything, never trained with mates, and never let their mates down as a result.

As for the Vietnam draft dodgers, I'd like to round them up and deport them too.  They too, broke American law and fled to a country with an extradition treaty.  The influx of American socialists into our society coincided with a sharp left turn for this country.  Again, if they were so principled, they should have been willing to emulate Cassius Clay (Mohammed Ali) and do their time in prison.

 

[vonGarvin]

Again, if they were so principled, they should have been willing to emulate Cassius Clay (Mohammed Ali) and do their time in prison.

EXCELLENT example of true courage: making a decision, standing by it and then accepting the consequences.  Running away and claiming "persecution" is absolute garbage.  Well said.

 

[canadianblue]

What a joke, and what an insult to those Canadian's that have lost their lives in other ways. These "soldiers" decided on their own to join the military and sign a contract. What they are doing is more cowardly then anything, and the only reason they are doing it is because now their afraid. I signed a contract, and will live up to it until its finished, which should be the same for every other service member.

 

[Kirkhill]

"In no sense do I advocate evading or defying the law......That would lead to anarchy. One who breaks an unjust law must do so openly, lovingly and with a willingness to accept the penalty."

Martin Luther King.

Muhammed Ali lived that.  Hinzmann et al have not and are not.

 

[TMM]

Martin Luther King.

Muhammed Ali lived that.  Hinzmann et al have not and are not.

+1.

I will sound like an old fart here but I no longer care.

Unfortunately this attitude of entitlement is not limited to the military but to all walks of life. I deal with university co-op students and they have no clue about consequences. If you believe in something enough to write a letter, desert, protest or partake in civil disobedience you've only done part of the deal. The other part of the deal is that YOU not your parents, not your colleagues, not your brothers in arms, but YOU have to take responsibility for whatever happens because of that; not run, not duck and cover, not fork over the chequebook. Anyone can stand up and say "I believe this is wrong" "I believe this is right" but very few are willing to pay the piper for singing their tune.

Rant over - off to find a virtual rocking chair and knitting needles.

 

[medicineman]

  Running away and claiming "persecution" is absolute garbage.  Well said.

I'm surprised many haven't filed for refugee status based on they might face "certain death" if required to serve out their service contracts.

MM

 

[Danjanou]

NDP - well Comrade Jack I am not impressed.  Deserters are my favorite subject  >

Major, how big is the trunk in that car of yours?  >

 

[Peanutssuck]

GOODBYE TROLL

 

[Danjanou]

I'm surprised many haven't filed for refugee status based on they might face "certain death" if required to serve out their service contracts.

MM

A couple have tried and been denied. They are now starting the lengthy and convoluted appeal after appeal process oft used by foreign drug dealers and other criminals who prefer to stay here and suck at the public trough.  I understand the majority were watching to see how this turned out prior to flodding Immigration with their own claims. :

 

[aluc]

NPD = anarchy

Simply thinking about the moustache makes me shiver! :-\

 

[Chimo]

There is another way an American "Soldier" may seek refuge and that is through Contentious Objectors Status, an Army Regulation that may be applied through the Chain of Command. With this option available, it places Jack into an even weaker position.

"Conscientious Objection
The issue of the conscientious objector in a volunteer Army also received a great deal of publicity. Inevitably, some Regular Army and Army Reserve soldiers ordered to deploy decided to apply for conscientious objector status. The relatively small number of applicants was not surprising, considering that these soldiers had voluntarily entered the military. However, the small number of potential objectors showed that critics, who believed that many young people entered the military for educational benefits and did not intend to go to war, underestimated the sense of responsibility felt by these soldiers.
Active-duty and reserve soldiers who decided to apply for objector status were free to do so, but the Army
required them to deploy with their units while it considered their applications. Those who submitted applications were often assigned duties that provided a minimum practicable conflict with their asserted beliefs. Between August 1990 and April 1991 the Department of the Army Conscientious Objector Review Board reviewed 131 requests from soldiers in the Regular Army and 10 from the Army Reserve and Army National Guard. The board approved 89 of the above cases. Seven of the soldiers withdrew their requests.79

Several reservists and active-duty soldiers who declared themselves conscientious objectors received a great deal of press coverage. Spc. Stephanie Atkinson was the first reservist who refused to report, claiming objector status. Atkinson held that she had joined the Army Reserve for the educational benefits and claimed that she had never really considered."

http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/books/www/www9.htm

If a Soldier truly believes they are in the wrong business, they need to find the moral courage and address it through their Chain of Command and not through a secondary country like Canada. 

 

[The_Falcon]

Not to sound like a wet blanket or anything, but shouldn't this by moved to the already lengthy topic about these yellow bellied bast@rds, cause we are basically going over the same old stuff here, cept now Comrade Layton has added his two rubles.

 

[medicineman]

NPD = anarchy

Simply thinking about the moustache makes me shiver! :-\

NDP= Not Destined for Power

MM

 

[Infanteer]

I'm sure Jack Layton would call for sending them back if they were needed to invade Sudan....

 

[Armymatters]

The problem is Layton is a bit beholden to the more left-wing section of the NDP, which has its power base in Ontario. Layton has to pretty much appeal to this section to ensure he survives a leadership review, or garner enough votes to remain in Parliament. Once you leave Ontario however, the members of the NDP are generally more strongly centralist, such as the British Columbian chapter of the NDP, which is fairly strongly centralist (of which I am a member). Layton sympathises with the former NPI faction of the party, which was more left wing, but not as left wing as the real nut jobs in the party (re: Socialist Caucus). We'll see what will happen to him at the next leadership review.

 

[a_majoor]

Given the 11+ Liberal Party leadership hopefuls seem determined to paint Jack Layton as "the Enemy" and move the Liberal party more left, I wonder how much of this is "theatrical" in the sense he wants to seem left wing and Anti American enough to keep his people from flocking to (say) a Bob Rae Liberal Party?

With a rudderless Liberal Party and a cluless NDP contending for the political left, you could be forgiven for thinking the Conservatives might be able to achieve a majority in the next election. It is Mr Harper's to loose.

 

[Cloud Cover]

With a rudderless Liberal Party and a cluless NDP contending for the political left, you could be forgiven for thinking the Conservatives might be able to achieve a majority in the next election. It is Mr Harper's to loose.

The press corps will do their best to stop a majority for any government. They have a succesful formula to engineer perpetual minority governments by taking up the cause of the moment to cause governments to flip flop on issues. Even Harper is having a tough time staying on message.