U.S. Military Deserters in Canada Megathread

[Danjanou]

The problem is Layton is a bit beholden to the more left-wing section of the NDP, which has its power base in Ontario. Layton has to pretty much appeal to this section to ensure he survives a leadership review, or garner enough votes to remain in Parliament. Once you leave Ontario however, the members of the NDP are generally more strongly centralist, such as the British Columbian chapter of the NDP, which is fairly strongly centralist (of which I am a member). Layton sympathises with the former NPI faction of the party, which was more left wing, but not as left wing as the real nut jobs in the party (re: Socialist Caucus). We'll see what will happen to him at the next leadership review.

Hmm I wonder if that little blip in the late 1970’s that saw the Bennet Soc Cred Dynasty  defeated briefly by the NDP under Dave Barret had anything to do with it. The NDP that came to power then under Premier Barret IIRC were so far to the left that they made Bob Rae’s little experiment in socialism here in Ontario look like Ronald Reagan. Like Rae this protest government lasted one term and was promptly tossed.

I guess the NDP out in lotus land regrouped and developed them selves as more centrist.

Anyways, minor thread hi-jack there. Now back to your regularily scheduled lefty bashing ;D

 

[HollywoodHitman]

Jack Layton and his band of left wing wackos will undoubtedly contest our involvement in the Sudan if we are sent there. If we are sent there, he will also end up criticizing the manner in which we do our business.

The only way I would vote NDP is if someone took my cold dead hand and scratched an X on the ballot for me.

Jack Layton, you and your like minded non militaristic cronies can sit back on the blanket of freedom that the military you detest provides you. Between the hits off your pipe and sticking pins in little dolls of Stephen Harper, maybe you can come up with some new schtik? Your material is boring. :threat:

 

[vonGarvin]

I've emailed resisters@sympatico.ca <resisters@sympatico.ca> and have been involved in a "discussion" with a Mr. "Z" of this organisation.  He is re-writing history.  IF you wish to be witness to what has transpired in these discussions (both what I sent and what I received), let me know.  Here is a brief:
1st send: I mentioned that these guys are dupes (the War Resisters group) for supporting these guys and that the deserters don't face the same situation as the Vietnam "Draft Dodgers"
1st Reply: "the War Resisters Support Campaign will continue to work to ensure that Canada lives up to its great tradition of welcoming Americans who refuse to fight in aggressive wars "
2nd send: "those "resisters" (read: deserters) are criminals, and as such, should be sent back to face whatever faces them for making that decision.  THAT is true courage."
2nd Reply: "We ignored you back then, and we’ll ignore you now, because we know you are a small minority...Please don’t write again."
3rd Send: "You may re-write history any way you wish.  I am NOT in the minority, and I will continue to express my opinion freely, just as you do, and just as you should."
3rd Reply: "There you go writing again. I mention the “minority” issue not to prove I’m right, but to make it clear that the war resisters will likely, in time, be allowed to stay in Canada, because most Canadians are fine with that.  PLEASE no more of your thoughts. I have gotten your point – everyone here is a coward, you’re a hero. Thank you and goodbye."
4th Send: " I certainly hope you truly don't believe that just because someone has a minority (or popular) position, that it makes them right.  If it were, there would be no gay rights now, no women's rights, segregation, etc.  Right is right is right, and regardless of right or wrong, EVERY ONE has an opinion and may freely express it."
4th Reply: "This will conclude our correspondence. I understand you feel strongly about this issue, and I respect your right to your views. But I do not have time to engage in further exchanges with you. I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree on this."

This guy is a piece of work.  He says that he is doing the same noble work as Martin Luther King (though, admittedly, not with the same grace, etc).  I would offer that you email him and state how you feel about these deserters in our country, whether you support them or otherwise.  He is trying to get his message out, but refuses to listen or even want to listen to any dissenting arguments.  He is condenscending, and holier than thou (in my opinion) and not once did I attack him: no ad hominem attacks, please.

Many thanks for listening to the result of my frustrating exchange of emails


Garvin out

 

[Kirkhill]

Hey Von Garvin

I just e-mailed Z to let him know that if you are in the minority it is a minority of 2.

Cheers, Chris.

 

[vonGarvin]

Kirkhill:
Thanks, dude.  PS: that email address is publicly available on their website, though Mr. Z has been using his own (I believe) in his later correspondence with me.  Out of respect for his privacy, I have not and will not post that email address, just the one available publically on his site (which I hyperlinked from cbc.ca)

 

[military granny]

Edmonton Sun editorial: Dont fight Jack's war

http://www.edmontonsun.com/Comment/Commentary/2006/05/11/1573962.html

What do you guys think?

 

[GO!!!]

What do you guys think?

Excellent editorial, I could'nt have said it better myself.

Methinks Jack is only alienating more voters with opportunistic press conferences like the last one.

 

[William Webb Ellis]

Can you post the "resisters" website?

 

[vonGarvin]

http://www.resisters.ca/

Enjoy


Garvin out

 

[Edward Campbell]

http://www.resisters.ca/

Enjoy


Garvin out

Can you be surprised?  Here is an excerpt from http://www.resisters.ca/declaration.html

We, the undersigned, call on the Canadian government to demonstrate its commitment to international law and the treaties to which it is a signatory, by making provision for US war objectors to have sanctuary in this country.

June Callwood, journalist and broadcaster
Shirley Douglas, actor
Maude Barlow, author and activist
David Suzuki, broadcaster and environmentalist
Steven Bush, author, senior lecturer and war resister
Anton Kuerti, musician
Bill King, musician and war resister
Heather Mallick, journalist
Naomi Klein, author
Jane Orion Smith, General Secretary, Canadian Friends Service Committee (Quakers)
Margaret Clare Ford, Clerk, Canadian Friends Service Committee (Quakers)
John Hagan, Professor of Law and war resister
Gale Zoe Garnett, artist
Zafar Bangash, scholar and journalist
Wayne Samuelson, President, Ontario Federation of Labour
Canadian Labour Congress
Canadian Arab Federation
Ron Hawkins, musician
Buzz Hargrove, President, Canadian Auto Workers
Paul Cliche, author and activist
Amir Khadir, spokesperson, Union des Forces Progressistes, Québec
ahdri zhina mandiela, theatre artist
John Fraser, author
Moyez G. Vassanji, author
Ann-Marie MacDonald, author
Fiona McCall, author and sailor
David Cronenberg, film maker
James Lockyer, lawyer
Françoise David, activist
Sarah Polley, actor
Students Administrative Council, University of Toronto
Jean-Claude Parrot
Canadian Federation of Students - Ontario
Union des Forces Progressistes
Madeleine Parent, trade-unionist and feminist
Martin Duckworth, film maker
Bruce Cockburn, musician
Pierre Jasmin, musician
Ron Kovic, Vietnam veteran and author
Arthur Sandborn, trade-unionist
André Frappier, trade-unionist

This is the (inbred) 'nobility' of the loony left; they have a collective IQ in the low one digit range and are barely able to breathe unaided.  Thankfully the Government of Canada will give them all the attention they have earned: none, nada, zilch, etc, etc, etc.

 

[a_majoor]

We, the undersigned, call on the Canadian government to demonstrate its commitment to international law and the treaties to which it is a signatory...

Well, that simplifies things. Since we should uphold our legal and treaty obligations, those deserters should be in custody and on their way to the United States by the end of the day. See, sometimes the Looney Left can get it right too.  :

 

[vonGarvin]

Funny how they spin things.  In one email response, Mr "Z" said that "there is no Canadian Law that prohibits one from deserting the US armed forces, therefore, they are not criminals".  HA!  But I suppose that there IS a Canadian Law that prohibits Americans from murdering Americans in America?!?!  /sarcasm off/

I just found it amusing that Mr. Z would have none of my arguments, told me to stop emailing, and resorted to ad hominem attacks as opposed to countering my arguments that these guys, right or wrong, should go home and face the music (read: accept responsibility for their actions).  After all, Hinzman, for example, is/was an infantryman in the 82nd Airborne.  Sure, he joined before 9/11, but who cares?  Had he stayed, I'm certain he would have been out of the forces by now.  Perhaps if nothing else, he should repay all pay and benefits to the US military for breach of contract (in addition to any sentencing if convicted by a tribunal)

 

[Danjanou]

Methinks Jack is only alienating more voters with opportunistic press conferences like the last one.

I hate to disagree with you there but unfortunately it seems that here is an almost endless supply of basically well meaning but naïve hand wringers in this country with their collectives heads shoved so far up their fifth point of contact that we’re in no danger of not hearing the Patron Saint of the Sound Bite and his cheesy porno mustache thrill us with his self righteous and condescending diatribes for some time to come.

 

[Kirkhill]

Given the high proportion of musicians and the artistically inclined in the list of supporters, perhaps a song is appropriate......

"It seems to me I've heard that song before......"

Fortunately many of them are approaching pensionable years. Perhaps they won't miss the government grants that have kept them gainfully employed in the past.

Cheers.

 

[nd.07]

I found this website...

http://www.jeremyhinzman.net/faq.html

It seems his grandfather is the only member of his family who thinks clearly.

 

[ArmyRick]

I just emailed the web site telling him to get the F*ck out of our country...

 

[ArmyRick]

They have the audacity to ask for donations on Hinzman's "feel sorry for me" web site? What nerve they have  :threat:

 

[HDE]

Ummm...

  Wouldn't the heroic thing have been to stay, make your case and deal with the consequences?  Instead we get this posturing phony trying to recycle himself into "a guy who ran away because it was the right thing to do".

 

[TMM]

  Wouldn't the heroic thing have been to stay, make your case and deal with the consequences?

No kidding. Soldiers don't get to pick and chose their wars. If they decide to do so, then they must face the consequences, especially since these guys joined of their own free will.

Who would care about Gandhi or Mandela if they fled? The difference between heroes and zeroes is bollocks. Far too many people missing a pair. I'd love to donate some to Hinzman but if he can't grow is own...

 

[HDE]

Exactly!

  Gandhi and Mandela shamed their captors because they stood up for their beliefs, took the pain and grabbed the moral high ground.  Then there's this clown... :crybaby: