U.S. Military Deserters in Canada Megathread

[jc5778]

When you sign the dotted line, you agree to put your personnel wants, feelings and fears aside for what your country tells you to do.  NO US army deserter should be allowed to stay in Canada period.  He's lucky that they no longer shoot deserters.  Now if your forced to join, say conscription, well then maybe you would have a leg to stand on.  Be a man, not a coward.  When you sign up for the infantry, especially in the US, you HAVE to be prepared to serve anywhere in the world and do the dirty deeds.  This is not a video game that you can quit.  :threat:

 

[Slim]

This is not a video game that you can quit. 

Bang on!

 

[mrosseker]

What concerns me about all of this isn't so much the guy deserting, or his reasons, but the fact that he came to Canada. I don't think we need any bad PR with the U.S., especially not now.
And, if this guy cant either stand up to a commitment or face the consequences in his own country, what kind of Canadian citizen will he be?

I dunno, just my .02

 

[Slim]

For some reason it seems that we are the haven for every PC slimeball that comes down the pipe!

Why can't they go someplace in Europe?

 

[Bograt]

Why can't they go someplace in Europe?

Its too cold to swim.

I am curious to know what happens when the refugee board rules against him. Will he disappear like some many others who hear unfavorable immigration hearings. Will he volunteer at Sgro's next campaign? Will he decide to strip for a living?

I watched the 60 Minutes story last night. They are apparently the darlings of Canada's anti-war movement. I wonder what is more humiliating- Darling of Canada's ant war campaign, or poster boy for Erectile Dysfunction Disorder.

 

[FastEddy]

Hey Infanteer - not to sound disrespectful of a staff member like yourself, but in your comment "I hope you stay away from my army" - I've already been in your army for 4yrs now (Reserve).   So, no disrespect - but get to know someone before you chomp down on em'.

I was trying to feed debate.   There are two sides to every story - and always a multitude of ways to look at something.   I was simply trying to expose what some of those other ways might be.   Its easy to call him a coward and close the book on em', sure.   I was merely trying to expand on a sense of empathy - NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH SYMPATHY - as to why he might have chosen the actions he did.   Did he demonstrate courage in regards to his unit and fellow soldiers?   No.   But did he demonstrate courage in regards to standing up for personal beliefs?   Perhaps.   I'm just saying - there are a lot of ways to look at a situation.   Remember,   perception is reality - if he perceives things differently than us, than obviously he's going to react differently.

Just trying to feed debate is all.    :threat:

"i WAS TRYING TO FEED DEBATE"  No, you sound like a Defense Attorney.

"IF HE PERCEIVES THINGS DIFFERENTLY" So do Serial Killers,Child Molesters,Rapest and Kidnappers.

"I"VE BEEN IN YOUR ARMY FOR 4 YEARS" I'm sure we all can draw our own conclusions to that statement.

I'd rather take my chances living next door to any of the above Criminals than a Deserter, at least they will be aventually arrested. But having to look at him every day, well I guess even you can figure that one out.

 

[Horse_Soldier]

I simply can't believe that Canada, as a responsible country, is actually harbouring a deserter from the army of our closest ally - and allowing him this travesty of a refugee hearing (which is done before political appointees - Liberal political appointees).  We should have arrested his ass the moment he crossed the border and handed him over to the US Military Police - just as we would like them to do if Pte Bloggins from the West Nunavut Fusiliers deserts the moment he's put on orders for deployment to whatever 'Stan is the target of the moment.

 

[pbi]

If he is trying to make a case against the war, his best bully pulpit will be in the US, where domestic media and US anti-Bush and anti-war groups can easily get access to him and give him far more exposure. But, of course, that would mean that the US MP's could get access to him too, amd by now he'd be cooling in Leavenworth.

As for his contention that he would be more severely punished because of his political beliefs, he is obviously playing on Canadian ignorance of (or left-wing antipathy to...) the Universal Code of Military Justice (=our Code of Service Discipline). It is very unlikely that his defenders or supporters would sit still for that kind of distortion of the court martial process. And, as far as I can make out, the US Army seems to be handing out rather less than draconian punishments these days.

Finally, as other posters have noted, Mr H may be an example of what you get when your recruiting stresses benefits over service.(A sin we often guilty of, IMHO...)I wonder what his squad mates, NCOs and officers remember about him. After all, he deserted them. That's why it's called "desertion" not "expressing one's political stance by abrogating a contractual obligation as a defence worker".

Cheers.

 

[Marauder]

Hinzman is a failure. First, he is a failure as a man. He took the coward's way out. If he was so interested in his beliefs and standing up for them, he would have manned up and spent a few years making big rocks into little rocks. But instead he ran. Yeah, way to *stand* for anything.

Second, he is a failure of the training system. He should have been tagged as a washout who's sole purpose in uniform was extracting "free" college money. Nuff said on that.

Last, he is a failure of the Canadian refugee system. If cases like this can't show the sheeple how broke our immigration system is, then nothing else can, I don't think.

 

[axeman]

I agree with you on that he joined so he would get the benifits of the payout in the end , but he did not think that to get to the end you have to go somewhere. It is the American Army , one of the other reasons ppl join is to travel  boy  in th CF have i ever done that  in the US Army you will definitly do it also .  the 101 Rakkasann's deployed to Afghanistan  with us in tow  and shortly after deploying back to the US they were packing up to go to iraq. In my thoughts some one  should drop him off at the border . but hey thats me , i dont think  and again its just me  that he should be allowed to stay . hell cassius clay you may know him as mohhamad ali did 2 years in a lot less freindly envirions then here in canada he stood up and was counted . it cost him yes but he made his stand where it was heard, not here in canada. let the deserter  go back or be allowed to leave the country which he has fled to  not stay .

 

[jrhume]

Just a quick note:

Concientious Objector status is available only to draftees.  People who enlist of their own free will are not covered by the law(s) establishing the category.  In addition, CO status does not exempt one from military service, it merely ensures that the CO will be placed in non-combat roles.  At least one CO won the MOH in WW2 while serving as a medic. That's courage.  Courage of conviction and physical courage.

Jim

 

[Bill Smy]

I went to his website. Thought I'd let him know what I thought. Guess what? No email capability. But if you want to send money, his lawyer's address is there.

Peter Worthington's article hit it on the head.

:gunner:

 

[Michael Dorosh]

I simply can't believe that Canada, as a responsible country, is actually harbouring a deserter from the army of our closest ally - and allowing him this travesty of a refugee hearing (which is done before political appointees - Liberal political appointees).   We should have arrested his ass the moment he crossed the border and handed him over to the US Military Police - just as we would like them to do if Pte Bloggins from the West Nunavut Fusiliers deserts the moment he's put on orders for deployment to whatever 'Stan is the target of the moment.

He's entitled to a fair hearing.  He's also entitled to be shackled immediately after and send south on the first cattle car.

 

[Horse_Soldier]

As long as he eventually gets to prove his committment to his personal convictions (whatever they are) in an appropriate place like Leavenworth, and not befouling Canadian soil, I'm happy. ;D 

 

[JasonH]

As long as he eventually gets to prove his committment to his personal convictions (whatever they are) in an appropriate place like Leavenworth, and not befouling Canadian soil, I'm happy. ;D 

Well said 

 

[vangemeren]

I do not have any sympathy. He joined the army voluntarily. It's not like he was forced to join through conscription.

He said he signed up at his father's urging...

The brave thing to do, would have been telling his father, "Dad, killing people is not my thing, the Mc Donalds down the street sounds better." Then he would have  no obligations to the army what so ever. What I would like to know is, what did he expect to do in the Airborne? Parachute into enemy territory and spread sunshine, lollipops, flowers, and good feelings to the Iraqi National Guard?

...the practising Buddhist...

I'm no expert in theology or religious studies, but since when did a Buddhist worry about money?

 

[Bograt]

I'm no expert in theology or religious studies, but since when did a Buddhist worry about money?

They don't like it when you point out the hypocrisy. SHHHHHH.

;D

 

[buzgo]

How many combat jumps have members of this board got? I believe he's got 18 in Afghanistan... Doesn't sound very cowardly to me.

 

[vangemeren]

I think it's more the IvolunteeredtojointhearmytogetfreemoneyandnowwhenthearmyneedsmeIrunaway atitude thing rather than the airborne thing.

Personally I would never jump out of a working airplane or is it just me?

 

[Goober]

I do not have any sympathy. He joined the army voluntarily. It's not like he was forced to join through conscription.

I'm no expert in theology or religious studies, but since when did a Buddhist worry about money?

Just because someone is a Buddhist it doesn't mean they don't worry about money. You don't need to be an expert in Buddhism to realize that a Buddhist needs to pay rent just like a Christian or Muslim would. Buddhism teaches mindfulness and awareness so one can deal with emotions such as worry, but they are not immune to those emotions.