The way JUNIOR--junior NCM‘s are treated

[elscotto937]

I have raised my voice once, I was very junior and very angry. Since then I can honestly say that I have not had any problems getting things done. I have been yelled at, and it only motivated me to a certain extent (enough so I didn‘t get yelled at again). However, explaining things to me in a rational manner has had a better effect. But it is up to the leader to determine the method of motivation that you use, and this should be based on the subordinates. I have seen soldiers that only react to be told to do things in a very direct manner.
Infanteer, here‘s a question are we in the same army? Because in my army it‘s not how much you yell it‘s strictly how you accomplish the mission. Dorosh is absolutely correct SHARP training was necessary because we wanted an army were you (who ever you were) could be fairly judged on your accomplishments, not some racial slurs that some morons learned on TV... OK I‘m on a rant...But seriously, Infanteer how long were you in the Army before the Sharp program came out, did you find it better with respect to the things I mentioned above?

 

[Slim]

Originally posted by Garry:
[qb] Slim,

In my experience, you just don‘t find people abusing the Troops- at least not for long.

I‘ve seen Snr NCO‘s pound the hail out of one of their own- he was abusing the Troops.

[/qb]

Hey Garry
I‘ve also been pretty lucky and had some really excellent leadership during my "time in".
Unfortunately I‘ve, on occasion, worked with some less than stellar NCO‘s ( junior to be sure) and have had them make life pretty difficult on occasion.
I‘m not wining...I know some situations call for harshness...
...Fortunately the good ones far outway the bad ones!
Cheers all.

 

[Infanteer]

Scott937,
Look at the people who are complaining on this thread. Sir, if you honestly believe this is how recruits should be handled (with kiddie gloves), than maybe we are in a different army.

Recruit Training Video

To anyone who thinks they are getting hammered on, adopt this motto.

FIDO- "Fu*k it, drive on", it‘ll serve you alot better than "Fu*k it, my feelings are hurt" in the long run

 

[Jarnhamar]

When i have to yell it‘s because who ever i‘m in charge of is tired, hungery, wants to sleep and isn‘t thinking at their best. If you ask them to do something when things are hectic they will look around and try to figure out whats going on and mess themselves up. When I yell at them they, because they are trained soldiers, react to the words of command and do what i tell them to without thinking about it very much.

Thats not to be confused with the wimps whom because they don‘t have confidence in their ability to inspire try and frighten. If theres one thing i can‘t stand it‘s "leaders" who go into detail about how great they are or talk about how tough they are and they will do this or do that if someone doesn‘t listen.

 

[cheechue]

if you honestly believe this is how recruits should be handled (with kiddie gloves), than maybe we are in a different army.

But it is a different army...things have changed so drastically in the last decade.

 

[Infanteer]

But it is a different army...things have changed so drastically in the last decade.

But is it for the good? We are in an army that, unlike our closest allies, hasn‘t been in major combat operations since 1953.
Since than our biggest enemy has been ourselves, and I‘m worried that the next time the flag drops, we again may have to reinvent the wheel at the cost of soldiers blood.

 

[gate_guard]

In my opinion, yelling at troops has a time and place. Some NCOs use it a lot to great effect, others have a different leadership style (the silent, deadly type). In both cases, there was no less respect on my part for either NCO. Sheila Molina, your attitude is exactly what the NCOs don‘t want. Sure, you may know a little more about something based on your life experience or know the Carl G‘s characteristics cause you just finished your wpn‘s course. The last thing a section needs is someone second guessing the leadership though. The reason for yelling, and other forms of "I‘m the head honcho, shut up" style of leadership is to inform you who‘s boss. That‘s the reason for drill, to get you to react to the word of command in adverse situations. Not to sit there and think "Well jeez, he didn‘t have to yell so loud." If your NCOs are drilling you on stuff you don‘t know and them yelling at you is "hurting your feelings", how do you think it‘ll feel in the same circumstances but in a combat situation? I pray that you won‘t just sit there saying "Well they never taught me this so..." The army‘s not fair, life‘s not fair, and war is definitely not fair.

Cheechue, you‘re right, this is a new army, an army full of kids who have been coddled by their parents. If a little yelling gets under their skin, they shouldn‘t be in the military. The army may be changing, but the horrors of combat never do and God help us if we send a battalion of touchy feely, new age troops who have never been yelled at to the line. Our job is a nasty business and sometimes calls for nasty words. Those kiddie gloves that Infanteer‘s talking about are genuine CF issue, and I keep them in a special place where I keep all me useless kit.

One of the best pieces of advice I‘ve heard before QL2, given to me by a medic no less, was "When they yell at you, extract the one or two pieces of information that you need to do your job, then do it. The fact that they‘re yelling at you means do it NOW."

 

[dhan74]

Wow Infanteer, is that how basic training is now in the CF? Group, if you thought yelling was excessive in the CF, try basic in the US Marine Corps, LOL! SIR YES SIR!

You gotta admit, you can definately motivate an individual to move faster with a very loud and aggressive voice. However, one of the most important leadership traits taught to Marines is TACT. An effective leader should always praise in public and criticize in private.

 

[Infanteer]

You gotta admit, you can definately motivate an individual to move faster with a very loud and aggressive voice. However, one of the most important leadership traits taught to Marines is TACT. An effective leader should always praise in public and criticize in private.

No disagreement here, I always looked at it like this.

11. There is a salient difference between profanity and obscenity; while a leader employs profanity (tempered with discretion), he never uses obscenities

 

[Bellman]

I‘m with Gate_Guard on this one. I‘m doing basic right now and when I‘m tired I need to be able to hear the word of command. I don‘t mind being yelled at, especially when the converse is not hearing the word of command and messing up.

 

[Bellman]

I‘m with Gate_Guard on this one. I‘m doing basic right now and when I‘m tired I need to be able to hear the word of command. I don‘t mind being yelled at, especially when the converse is not hearing the word of command and messing up.

 

[Slim]

Originally posted by gate_guard:
[qb]
"When they yell at you, extract the one or two pieces of information that you need to do your job, then do it. The fact that they‘re yelling at you means do it NOW." [/qb]

This is exactly the mindset that soldiers should have! Even if you know that your knowledge of a piece of kit or a given situation is better or more recent, piping up to the NCO about it whether in front of the group or in private will not elevate you in anyones eyes...And, I hate to say it, but being a female will probably make it worse! They‘ll just think your another girl trying to "show up the boys!"

 

[OLD SCHOOL]

Hmmmm... Yelling?

In the U.K out for a tour of the hills,a soldier falls out with leg cramps. Much yelling from the SGT. Much swearing from the SGT. No movement on the soldiers part. Hmmmm... I noticed rapid movement and a new gung ho drive the body mentality after the SGT. put the boots to his gut.
Wow, was that ever effective. After seeing that, I was one fast Canadian. Would have loved to have used that on a few malingering @#$#@& back home.

Ahhh, the old days.

Excuse me Warrant, could you keep your voice down?
LMFAO! NEVER happened,and when we are taking fire you will hear me and you will move as directed.

Some people need to just join the Coast Guard and save us the trouble. :crybaby:

 

[elscotto937]

Old School, that is definately a motivation tool.

Let me clarify things, yelling, as I have mentioned previously, is NOT the act of telling soldiers in a direct and concise manner to accomplish a task with a level of volume to be heard (i.e. so that the subordinate does not have to stuggle to hear). The yelling that I‘m talking about entails threats, verbal abuse, and degradation (in some form or another). One axiom that I like to think about is this "When you are not under fire and you have the time, take suggestions on accomplishing the mission and make an informed decision, your subordinates will feel that they have had thier suggestions heard and will therefore have confidence in you that you have weighed all the options. Then they will have no hesitation to follow your orders under contact as they trust you that you have made the informed decision. " An interesting suggestion, I can‘t say that I always follow it. Now, I may have to change my opinion as my Tech was reading over my shoulder and he doesn‘t necessarily agree.

 

[Erborn]

You don‘t like the yelling
Well thats to damm bad
If you wanted to hear yelling the 1st BatPPCLI 1951 was the place .It was called a Jr.NCO Course then.
You can lead by fear or you can lead by example.

BobbyC

 

[squeela1984]

yeah i'm not complaining for myself here gentlemen!!  I do just fine in the military.  I was saying for the benefits of others who were being yelled at in an inappropriate way (i.e harrassment,and degrading words.)  When I say harrassment I don't mean disciplinary yelling (your boots aren't shiny or do up your buttons).  That's all apart of anywhere you go.  And the WO is definitely old school, that's all I'm saying.
I don't know who commented on being a female is probably worse cause i'm just trying to show up the guys, but that's so not true.  The fact is, most females tend to be "not-as-up" as the guys, in respect to PT or leadership.  And in saying that we have to try harder so guys don't feel that women are being treated like babies or coddled.  I've seen it.  "Oh she's a girl, she doesn't have to try as hard."  Whatever the guys wanna think is their perogative but we are in the same military.  And yes promote in public criticize in private.  There's nothing I hate more than when I see some MCpl giving someone shit or making fun of them in a big crowd so he looks cool.  Seen it!!
I love the military-hence why I signed my 2nd BE. 

 

[Infanteer]

If you didn't realize it, we stopped talking about this half a year ago....

 

[mclipper]

yeah i'm not complaining for myself here gentlemen!!   I do just fine in the military.   I was saying for the benefits of others who were being yelled at in an inappropriate way (i.e harrassment,and degrading words.)   When I say harrassment I don't mean disciplinary yelling (your boots aren't shiny or do up your buttons).   That's all apart of anywhere you go.   And the WO is definitely old school, that's all I'm saying.


Harrassment is another issue all together.  If someone is genuinely being harrassed.....they will be dealt with.  Discipline is not harrassment.  I have seen MANY cases within the last 10 years where some Pte gets jacked up (because they actually did screw up) and they start screaming harrassment.  Another of my favorites is the person who doesn't get what he/she wants....them screams harrassment!  People really need to stop throwing around words like harrassment and racism when it's really discipline.

 

[CdnGalaGal]

Hmm... Why were you asking about Maggrah?

 

[Fusaki]

  I was saying for the benefits of others who were being yelled at in an inappropriate way (i.e harrassment,and degrading words.)  When I say harrassment I don't mean disciplinary yelling (your boots aren't shiny or do up your buttons).  That's all apart of anywhere you go. 

Geez... I've taken my share of scream burns, some of them justified and others I felt I didn't deserve. But I've moved on, because there are more important things to worry about. When something really intense is going on, you need to be able to pick up the right information and filter out the rest. Not shut'er down and mope around because someone hurt your feelings. This is a serious business, and you want people who can - at the very least - keep on moving after after you've hurt their ego. (ummmm... yeah, what gate_guard said)