The War of 1812 Merged Thread

[Danjanou]

Oh no please not this one again :

 

[Haggis]

T6:

What I find interesting is that having visited two of the US Army's biggest museums (Armour in Ft Knox and Infantry in Ft Benning) I recall seeing absoultely no mention of the War of 1812 at etiher.  Surprising, really, when one considers that most conflicts of that age were fought by cavalry and infantry.

 

[sneezy]

Oh no please not this one again :

That's the point I was trying to make. It's an exercise in futility.

 

[ExSarge]

When I was in Panama, back in the mid 70’s, I was assigned to 3/5th Inf. The 5th traced its linage back to the war of 1812 and carried a number of battle honours for the Niagara campaigns. I must say I was a little conflicted as I have an ancestor who served in the 8th (Kings Regiment) in some of the same engagements.

 

[tomahawk6]

GB stopped pressing US sailors. I dont see where the US made a serious attempt to capture Canada. It looked more like a raid than anything else. There were elements during the revolution that wanted to capture Canada but it didnt happen. I think the colonies were just glad to be rid of GB rather than demand GB giving up Canada. The benefit to the US was that GB recognized the US claim to Louisina which the US had purchased for $15m in 1803.

 

[Danjanou]

Ok for those insistent and to paraphrase a fellow DS here “search”

http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php?action=search2

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/20165.0.html

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/60597.0.html

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/47874.0.html

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/47874.0.html

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/62717.0.html

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/26131.0.html

 

[Haggis]

GB stopped pressing US sailors. I dont see where the US made a serious attempt to capture Canada. It looked more like a raid than anything else. There were elements during the revolution that wanted to capture Canada but it didnt happen. I think the colonies were just glad to be rid of GB rather than demand GB giving up Canada. The benefit to the US was that GB recognized the US claim to Louisina which the US had purchased for $15m in 1803.

Several raids, actually.  In one American raid, at the Battle of Crysler's Farm (just west of Cornwall, Ontario) a force of some 4000 American troops were routed and forced to retreat by a combined force of 800 British Regulars and Canadian Militia.

Ask a Canadian and it was a defeat.  Ask an American and it was a withdrawal.  Ask me and I'll tell you that, after 195 years, I don't really care who won.

We're allies now.  It was in all the papers.  ;D

 

[tomahawk6]

I dont care either, I was just surprised at how seriously Canadians take the War of 1812. ;D
However, there is an interesting whatif. The British strategy was to strike into the US in three places. Louisiana,New York along Lake Champlain and the Hudson River to sever NE from the union and Chesapeake Bay as a diversion and then wring territorial concessions from the US. If this strategy had been successful the US might have failed as a country or it would have meant another war. Alot of interesting possibilities.

 

[Danjanou]

I dont care either, I was just surprised at how seriously Canadians take the War of 1812. ;D

Almost as serious as some of your countrymen below the Mason/Dixon line take another little fracas almost as old.  8)

 

[tabernac]

I'm surprised as to how much American's downplay it..... But as Haggis said, its in the past, and were allies now. 

 

[Haggis]

I was just surprised at how seriously Canadians take the War of 1812. ;D

We take it seriously because it annoyed us.  The Battle of Ogdensburg happened during winter. So does hockey.  Your "war" interrupted the hockey so we dropped our gloves, attacked across the ice and burned Ogdensburg.

How would you Americans like it if we staged a raid during a NASCAR Nextel Cup race?

 

[foo32]

I suspect the war of 1812 gets little mention in the USA out of sheer jealously.  With each passing generation, more and more Americans fantasise about burning down the White House, but the poor sods will just never get the chance. ;D

 

[tomahawk6]

Whats even more galling is that our allies the Brits wont return the goods they stole from the White House. 8)

 

[Thorvald]

Actually this topic never gets too far with anyone that knows the history of York (Toronto).  The Yanks burned the York government buildings in April of 1813 as well and stole our Mace (and captured the entire town).  The white house was burned in August of 1814, so it was simply a matter of tit-for-tat... 

The mace has an interesting history though:

"The mace vanished from the Parliament Buildings and turned up later in a the military museum in Annapolis, Maryland. President Franklin Roosevelt returned it 121 years later on the occasion of Toronto's centennial birthday in 1934. Today it hangs on the wall of Fort York."

Good synopsis here:
THE CAPTURE OF YORK
http://www.uppercanadahistory.ca/1812/18124.html

------

Even more interesting is the finding of a wreck off the coast of Nova Scotia that supposedly has some of the white house plunder:

"Interesting article appeared in Military History, April 2007, page 10, titled British Claim ownership of sunken, stolen, War of 1812 relics found off Nova Scotia. "An ownership debate about valuables looted from Washington, DC, by loyalist troops during the War of 1812 has pitted the British against the Americans once again. Last fall divers from U.S. based Sovereign Exploration Associates finished a reconnaissance of a double shipwreck site off the Nova Scotia coast uncovering artifacts that include White House china, silverware, Capitol relics and coinage from the U.S. Treasury. One of the vessels is believed to be the British frigate HMS Fantome, which sank while leading a convoy back to Halifax after the 1814 sacking of Washington. Following the discovery the British High Commission claimed ownership of the warship and its contents under the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea. Based on that British claim the provincial government of Nova Scotia rejected a recovery permit application filed by the salvage company. The site will remain off-limits until the Americans and the British can come to terms. (Dueling pistols, anyone?)""

Any of Madison's China still there?  ;D

 

[TN2IC]

Whats even more galling is that our allies the Brits wont return the goods they stole from the White House. 8)

I wonder "what if" the US piped up on that issue to the UK. I wonder how that would play out. 


Regards,
TN2IC

 

[tomahawk6]

Should have been a quid pro quo Lend Lease for White House china [I think it was]. ;D

 

[geo]

If I remember right, the UK just finished paying it's WW2 war debt (in past 20 months).

 

[Foxhound]

How does that old chestnut go?  “History is written by the victors.”  I guess it depends on who you think won….

Article link

The War of 1812 revisited
Chris Wattie, National Post
Published: Thursday, September 27, 2007

As early preparations for the 200th anniversary of the War of 1812 get underway in Canada and the United States, organizers in Canada have run into an unexpected hitch: Their American counterparts seem to think they won.

The historical disconnect between American and Canadian interpretations of the war, during which tens of thousands of American troops invaded Canada - then still a British colony - and were repulsed by the outnumbered defenders, has left Canadian organizers of the bicentennial events shaking their heads in bemusement at their American colleagues' staunch insistence that the war was a victory for the then-young United States.

Sandra Shaul, the city administrator in charge of the bicentennial projects, said she was a little surprised to hear her counterparts on the U.S. side of the border discuss their view of the War of 1812 and see some of the plaques and presentations at historic sites such as Fort Niagara, in Lewiston, N.Y. or Sackets Harbor, N.Y., the base for the two attacks on Toronto in 1813.

"The Americans, well, they feel they won the war," Ms. Shaul says, choosing her words carefully. "They have their perspective and we have ours. It's a question of emphasis: They emphasize their version of the story ... and of course we emphasize ours."

Connie Barone, the site manager of Sackets Harbor state historical park in northern New York, sounds pretty unequivocal about the outcome of the three-year war: "Certainly we won. Because if we hadn't, we'd be using loonies and toonies instead of dollar bills, wouldn't we?"

…more on link

Perspectives, eh?

 

[Red 6]

I suspect the war of 1812 gets little mention in the USA out of sheer jealously.  With each passing generation, more and more Americans fantasise about burning down the White House, but the poor sods will just never get the chance. ;D

Whoa now, Red Rider! We don't want to burn the White House down. The gummint wouls just raise taxes to fix it up again!  ;D ;D Ya'll are just jealous anyway becaue we got the better viewpoinbt at Niagara Falls.  :cheers: Can't we all just be friends.

 

[ExSarge]

Ya'll are just jealous anyway becaue we got the better viewpoint

What do-ya- mean better view point? We have a southern exposure; any realtor would tell you that, a southern exposure is the preferred option!

Anyway you wouldn’t even have a White House if it wasn’t for the Brit’s getting the “Presidential Mansion” all covered with soot (trust that damn Brits to mess up a simple pillage and burn!)