The War of 1812 Merged Thread

[ExSarge]

This is a worthy project that deserves support. Although it was my impression that the exact site of the battle has been lost. I stand to be corrected on this by our experts, but I'm sure I read in one of Donald Graves works that battle site is in dispute.

 

[Remius]

This is a worthy project that deserves support. Although it was my impression that the exact site of the battle has been lost. I stand to be corrected on this by our experts, but I'm sure I read in one of Donald Graves works that battle site is in dispute.

+1 to that.

I did a battlefield tour of the war of 1812 and 14-15.  Amazing stuff.  Plus if you haven't seen the Brock monument  you have missed something for sure.  Too bad Tecumseh  (despite his contribution) has only a plaque to his name.

Some people think our history is boring.  I say they just haven't looked at it properly  .

 

[ChristianMN]

My family came to Canada in 1806 at the request of Lord Selkirk. My understanding is that we came to fight against the Americans. I'm wondering whether or not there is a list of Canadian militia that fought in the war. So far I have been unable to find anything related to my families participation in my own family records which date to the early 1600's. These records are extremely accurate in almost every way, but there have been almost a dozen branches of my name since our landing. If anyone could point me in a direction, any direction, that would be extremely appreciated.

 

[bily052]

Here is the official gov't web site.  I do not know if it goes back as far as you want but well worth the try. 
http://www.collectionscanada.ca/war-military/index-e.html

Good luck

Billy

 

[niner domestic]

One of the mods was kind enough to post a very good resource list at: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/42325.0.html

 

[Michael OLeary]

British Forces in Canada until 1871. "British military and naval records up to and including the First World War are in the custody of the National Archives in England, formerly known as the Public Record Office (PRO), in the War Office and Admiralty series. Library and Archives Canada has acquired copies of some of those records relating to regiments that served in Canada."
http://www.collectionscanada.ca/genealogie/022-909.002-e.html

 

[Bill Smy]

"My family came to Canada in 1806 at the request of Lord Selkirk. My understanding is that we came to fight against the Americans. I'm wondering whether or not there is a list of Canadian militia that fought in the war. So far I have been unable to find anything related to my families participation in my own family records which date to the early 1600's. These records are extremely accurate in almost every way, but there have been almost a dozen branches of my name since our landing. If anyone could point me in a direction, any direction, that would be extremely appreciated."

The problem with responding to this post is that it's too vague. What part of British North America? The reference to Lord Selkirk would lead me in the direction of Manitoba, but there were no militia units in Manitoba in 1812, and I know of no battles, campaigns, etc, that far west.

What are the possible family names in the 1812 period?

 

[pbi]

The Selkirk settlement wasn't founded until 1812, so if your folks came over in 1806 they probably didn't go to the Selkirk Red River Settlement right away. There were no military operations of the War of 1812 in Manitoba, so they probably weren't brought to fight the Americans. However, Selkirk did have a fight on his hands with the Northwest Company (it eventually culminated in the Seven Oaks Masssacre where 22 settlers were killed) and he did ask the colonial administration for troops at the end of the War, to defend thte settlement against NWC and their Indian allies. He got a few volunteers from some British  and British-hired regiments that  were finishing their service, (notably the Swiss Des Meurons Regt, after whom Desmeurons Avenue in Winnipeg is named). Maybe your family were in that group of soldiers? Try Manitoba Heritage or this site: http://www.iaw.on.ca/~jsek/selkirk.htm.

Cheers

 

[3rd Herd]

There was also the "Fur Trade War"

Hudson's Bay Company faced fierce competition from the North West Company in Rupert's Land and in general, North America. Both companies wanted to control the fur trade. As a result, a bitter rivalry developed. By the 1800s the two sides were at war with each other.This war resulted in both groups having settlers in Rupert's Land prior to the Selkirk settlement.There is a very good reference on the early settlers of Manitobia, I believe it is called "Who's Who" and is by date and era.

Forts:
Fort Maurepas (1734 - 1763), (Fort Alexander)
This French fort was located just across the Winnipeg River, also on the Fort Alexander Indian Reserve. It had burned down in 1747, was rebuilt in 1748, and burned down again in 1763.
Fort Gibraltar 1804 - 1821), Winnipeg A North West Co. post. First located here was the French Fort Rouge (1737 - 1804).
Fort Bas-de-la-Rivière (1792 - 1821), Fort Alexander A North West Co. post, also known as Winnipeg House

As for personal or family records an excellent site is Vital Statistics http://web2.gov.mb.ca/cca/vital/Query.php
You can access birth records, marriages and etc from this time period. My ancestors arrivied in Manitoba somewhere in the 1750's as part of the North West Company settleing in both the today Winnipeg area prior to the Selkirk settlement by 50 odd years and also in the Portage La Praire area. They got naming rights to some of the geographical physical features.

 

[BernDawg]

Contact Mr Carstead at the Forces of Lord Selkirk site. (link above) If there is anyone in Canada that has the info you seek it's him.  I've been involved with this org in the past and they take the history of it pretty seriously.  If you are a direct descendant I'm sure he will be quite pleased to make your acquaintance.
Good Luck
Bern

 

[Zartan]

ChristianMN,

During the 19th Century, Lord Selkirk thought it was a wise idea to populate British North America with Gaelic speaking Highlanders. His reasoning was that with a different language and a fierce population than the United States, the remaining colonies would be better protected from American cultural or military imperialism. He founded the Red River colony and brought hundreds of Kildonan Scots to the colony, but they were devastated at the Battle of Seven Oaks, and never assumed a large role in the colony (overshadowed by the Metis, and later, other European settlers)

 

[pbi]

During the 19th Century, Lord Selkirk thought it was a wise idea to populate British North America with Gaelic speaking Highlanders. His reasoning was that with a different language and a fierce population than the United States, the remaining colonies would be better protected from American cultural or military imperialism.

From what I can make out from several on-line sources (including Encyclopedia Britannica) Selkirk's real aim was to relieve the suffering of Scots  and Irish "crofters"(small holding peasants)  who had been kicked off their lands in Scotland  and Ireland  by changes in property ownership laws. He wanted to find a place with lots of cheap land where he could settle these people (and make some money out them, as well). He established settlements in Eastern Canada first, then he decided to try the Red River area. The Northwest Company (which employed large numbers of Metis) resisted because they didn't want any competition in "their" area of Canada, so Selkirk and a partner bought shares in HBC in order to secure some of the land grant along the River. There was very little US presence in the Northwest then, so I'm not sure the settlement was a response to any US threat. Military operations of the War of 1812 pretty well left the Northwest alone: I think the seizure of the US fort at Michilimakinac was the most westerly operation. I can't find any mention of a US threat in any of the stuff I have looked at so far. Do you have a source for that?

but they were devastated at the Battle of Seven Oaks

Actually it seems that the original settlement was already in decline by 1815. Seven Oaks happened in 1816, and it was really a chance encounter, not a premeditated attempt to stamp out the Scots.  The NWC Metis were on their to a spot further down the Red when Semple's men met them. The loss of 20-25 men (including Governor Semple) was pretty bad, but I'm not sure that it devastated the Red River colony. It actually led to the merger of HBC and NWC, whuch probably contributed to strengthening the colonial presence in the Northwest.

and never assumed a large role in the colony

IIRC, the Scots and Irish settlers formed a big part of the early settlement pattern and along with the English, were the dominant cultural group in the area until well into the 20th century. The "other Europeans" didn't really start to arrive until after the CPR was built.

Cheers

 

[Kirkhill]

I'll second pbi's observations.  The Kildonan Scots were very much part of the Manitoba scene as were the Hudson's Bay Orkneymen from the North and, mingling with the French, Norwesters from Montreal. 

(Thomas Douglas, Fifth Earl of Selkirk)
Thomas Douglas, commonly referred to as Lord Selkirk, was the founder of the Red River Settlement, known today as Winnipeg. Lord Selkirk was born in 1773 and was educated as a lawyer. He realized that many Scottish peasants, or 'Crofters', were loosing their homes because land owners found it more profitable to raise sheep on their land, rather than rent it to tenants. Unlike most other wealthy noblemen, he took an interest in them and felt that he could help them. He decided to settle the poor people in British North America to improve the situation in the British Isles as well as life for these peasants. To acquire the land needed to colonize in B.N.A. (British North America), Lord Selkirk bought enough shares from the Hudson's Bay Company. In doing that, he was granted 160 000 square miles of land called Assiniboia. He sent poor Irish and Highland Scots from the British Isles to B.N.A. to start colonizing the Red River Valley.
The colony was under constant attack from the hostile North West Company and their Metis allies. Eventually, the Nor'Westers were successful in destroying Fort Douglas and driving the Selkirk settlers out of the colony. In order to regain control of his colony, Lord Selkirk hired 100 disbanded Swiss soldiers. They captured Fort William, the North West Company headquarters, hen proceeded to Assiniboia to restore the settlement.
Meanwhile, the Nor' Westers issued a warrant for his arrest. Lord Selkirk was fined 2000 pounds for his actions at Fort William. Disillusioned and in poor health, Lord Selkirk returned to France where, in 1820, he died. His settlement had a huge impact on our area.
Polson, John Henderson, John Pritchard, Munroe, Angus McKay, and Neil Campbell Schools were all named for Selkirk settlers.

http://timelinks.merlin.mb.ca/ourcommunity/Famous/Lord_Selkir.htm

There is also this:  800 Selkirk Settlers from Skye to Belfast, PEI in 1803
http://www.islandregister.com/skye/skye2003.html

And this, that makes reference to an 1804 colony at Baldoon, Upper Canada.
http://www.lordselkirk.ca/settlers.html

And finally this, that references the arrival of the "Spencer" at PEI in 1806 with settlers from Colonsay, an island in the Hebrides off the west coast of Scotland.
http://www.islandregister.com/colonsay_selkirk.html

If there is a military connection it is likely with one of the Fencible Regiments raised in Nova Scotia and New Brunswick around this time.  The New Brunswick Fencibles were converted to Regulars in 1810 and joined the line as 104th Regiment of Foot (The New Brunswick Regiment).  It was very active during the war of 1812 soldiering as far away as Upper Canada.
http://www.cmhg.gc.ca/cmh/en/image_290.asp?page_id=360
http://www.warof1812.ca/104th.htm
http://www.regiments.org/regiments/uk/inf/104-810.htm#bh

 

[Zartan]

From what I can make out from several on-line sources (including Encyclopedia Britannica) Selkirk's real aim was to relieve the suffering of Scots  and Irish "crofters"(small holding peasants)  who had been kicked off their lands in Scotland  and Ireland  by changes in property ownership laws. He wanted to find a place with lots of cheap land where he could settle these people (and make some money out them, as well). He established settlements in Eastern Canada first, then he decided to try the Red River area. The Northwest Company (which employed large numbers of Metis) resisted because they didn't want any competition in "their" area of Canada, so Selkirk and a partner bought shares in HBC in order to secure some of the land grant along the River. There was very little US presence in the Northwest then, so I'm not sure the settlement was a response to any US threat. Military operations of the War of 1812 pretty well left the Northwest alone: I think the seizure of the US fort at Michilimakinac was the most westerly operation. I can't find any mention of a US threat in any of the stuff I have looked at so far. Do you have a source for that?

You are correct - those were the motivations for Selkirk to act. However, in order to get allies among the government to assist him, his reasoning (as previously mentioned), was a means of getting it. Certainly there would be no American operations anywhere near the Red River - I believe Prairie du Chien was the furthest west the war went (with the exception of the seizing of Fort Astoria on the Pacific Coast from American fur traders).

I do have sources, however at the moment I do not have them privy, and furthermore, I warn that you may find them inaccessible (as they may require University enrollment to access).

Actually it seems that the original settlement was already in decline by 1815. Seven Oaks happened in 1816, and it was really a chance encounter, not a premeditated attempt to stamp out the Scots.  The NWC Metis were on their to a spot further down the Red when Semple's men met them. The loss of 20-25 men (including Governor Semple) was pretty bad, but I'm not sure that it devastated the Red River colony. It actually led to the merger of HBC and NWC, whuch probably contributed to strengthening the colonial presence in the Northwest.
IIRC, the Scots and Irish settlers formed a big part of the early settlement pattern and along with the English, were the dominant cultural group in the area until well into the 20th century. The "other Europeans" didn't really start to arrive until after the CPR was built.

You can easily say that Seven Oaks was the straw that broke the camel's back. 20 killed, out of a population of about 100, is pure devastation. Many would leave, but by Confederation, the Red River Colony had only over 10 000 settlers, only several hundred of which were descended from Selkirk's efforts (specified in demographics as Kildonan Scots). French-speaking Metis made up over 1/2 of the population - I'll have to check, if you like for the composition of the remaining populace.

 

[pbi]

However, in order to get allies among the government to assist him, his reasoning (as previously mentioned), was a means of getting it.

This could quite possibly have been one of his arguments, but it doesn't seem to have survived very well in available open sources.(Of course, that doesn't mean it's wrong)  As well, I'm not sure that "the Government" had much direct influence in what happened in the Northwest in those days: IMHO most meaningful control was in the hands of either the NWC or the HBC.

do have sources, however at the moment I do not have them privy, and furthermore, I warn that you may find them inaccessible (as they may require University enrollment to access).

OK-no need to put the info on line. Can you name the source document?: I can probably get it through the College library here.

You can easily say that Seven Oaks was the straw that broke the camel's back. 20 killed, out of a population of about 100, is pure devastation

True enough, but it didn't stop the flow of British settlers into the area, nor did it wipe out the influence of the Scots in the Valley area: the communities of Selkirk, East Selkirk, Kildonan, North Kildonan, West Kildonan and St. Andrew's all testify to the lasting influence in the Winnipeg area. It is probably safe to say that the original group didn't fare well, but the flow of the Anglos had already begun. The railway (much later) brought the Eastern Europeans.

Cheers

 

[3rd Herd]

PBI,
you are correct as 'Ruperts Land' was under the control of HBC through their initial charter under Charles I I. The NWC was attempting to break this 'royal' monopoly and the Fur Trade war resulted. In addition to the Seven Oaks there was also the Pemmican Rebellion. Pemmican a staple food source for trippers, traders, travellers came from one major tribal group.  Who ever controlled the pemmican also controlled access. As for the original group most did quite well and to most extents were successful such as 3M for example, tape, sand paper etc came out of this area, Ducks Unlimited. Most though lost it all in the dirty thirties.

 

[Zartan]

pbi, I'm going to have to get back to you with the precise document, but if I remember correctly, it was likely one of the articles (on Red River), in the latest edition of "Readings in Canadian History" (pre-1867)... or at least it'll have some of my sources! I'll try to look it up for certain on Friday or so... got another 2200 words to write for tomorrow!

 

[pbi]

OK. Standing by...

Cheers

 

[tomahawk6]

Hadnt really thought about it until I read this article today. The war began because the US could no longer abide the enforced impressment of US sailors. Then there was the war between France and GB wich saw a blockade of French ports which hurt southern US trade. In 1810 the RN fired on the USS Chesapeake which almost started a war. In the end I think the fact that GB gained no territory and the Battle of New Orleans saw a US victory [after the war was officially over] in american eyes was a victory considering the power of GB at the time.

http://www.canada.com:80/components/print.aspx?id=900d840b-5f36-4dca-a875-b4cce5df2e62

BACK STORY

The War Of 1812: A Primer

Who started the 1812 war? The United States declared war on Britain in June of 1812. As part of the British Empire, Upper Canada was brought into the conflict.

Why? Americans were angry that Britain, in its war with France under Napoleon Bonaparte, had threatened U.S. sailors and trading channels. Was that all? According to the Oxford Companion to Canadian History, there was also tension about the violation of treaties with First Nations. The Americans claimed that Natives at trading posts around the Great Lakes were conspiring against them.

How far did the conflict stretch? Uprisings stretched from Florida to the Upper Great Lakes.

How did it end? By 1814, New England began to voice opposition to the war as American forces were faced with a lack of secure sources of supplies, the Oxford Companion says. Peace negotiations began in August, 1814, after Britain began to devote more time and effort to the American campaign.

Who won? The failure by either side to win a decisive victory led to a peace treaty signed at Ghent, Belgium, in December, 1814, which restored the status quo. However, the slow communications of the day meant a bloody clash at New Orleans was fought after the war ended. How did the Americans feel? "Two years war and no conquest? The little province of Upper Canada holds out two years against the whole force of democracy? This is very grating," according to Nathan Ford, a local official in New York State.

Katie Rook, National Post

 

[sneezy]

Hadnt really thought about it until I read this article today. The war began because the US could no longer abide the enforced impressment of US sailors. Then there was the war between France and GB wich saw a blockade of French ports which hurt southern US trade. In 1810 the RN fired on the USS Chesapeake which almost started a war. In the end I think the fact that GB gained no territory and the Battle of New Orleans saw a US victory [after the war was officially over] in american eyes was a victory considering the power of GB at the time.
http://www.canada.com:80/components/print.aspx?id=900d840b-5f36-4dca-a875-b4cce5df2e62

In the end I think the fact that GB sacked and burned Washington saw a GB victory (with almost no opposition) in Canadian eyes was a victory. Six of one, half dozen of the other. Every time I've heard this topic argued/ discussed, it's been fought to a draw, just like that war was.