The Ten Commandments of RMS Clerks

[smale436]

      I couldn't agree more with you on the issue in Trapani with the MSF that was initally in theatre. I'm not sure when you where there or who you are, although I likely was the start crew on your jet at one point and I remember every 425 pilot who was there, but when the MSF from Winnipeg arrived in September there was a 200% turnaround in service at the OR. After a week of reduced hours to catch up on the workload left unfinished upon their arrival, they immediately instituted a policy of being open 9-4 every day. They would always answer the door after they closed for the day to let personnel acquire money when they needed it in an emergency. (As many of us techs could not make it there due to our midnight shifts) I understand there were some tough times there when the camp first got set up in March, but the service provided there from May when I arrived there until September when the Winnipeg crowd arrived was disgraceful to the people working 14 hours a day 6 days a week making those missions happen.

    I remember when, after arriving 2 minutes after the OR closed for lunch and having been unsuccessful at obtaining funds the previous 3 days due to the OR itself being out of money, being told by the no-hook Private that "I will allow it this time but if you come again when this door is closed you will have to wait until tomorrow." Thankfully our CO was walking by as this happened and things started to change rather promptly.

 

[armyvern]

Leading Change for suggesting we are not "Customers" and that "Customers" is somehow a new phenomena due to the "civilianization" of the CF??

Not quite.

My father worked in Customer Services as a Sgt ... in the early 80s. Being called a "customer" instead of a "client" means diddly squat in the CF world. The term has been around for decades, the provision of services hasn't changed ... customer services still does what it always has --- despite the "civilianization" of the CF.

Really?? You actually think renaming "Customer Services" to "Client Services" is important and is going to change what soldiers receive from that section or how they are treated? It's unimportant. What IS important and what will actually lead change is getting rid of the "holier-than-thou" attitude that is inherent in the "Commandments" stated in the original post. Something tells me the attitude of the writer would have been obvious to the customer he was peering down his nose at while they awaited service. Might very well explain why that clerk seemed to experience some shitty attitude right f'n back at him/her. Funny that. Respect begets respect. Obviously the writer didn't get much ---- perfect!

 

[armyvern]

Even non-operational, all manner of cf members from snake eating  infanteers to germ hunting p-meds (wink) keep non standard hours. It's not an "I left the wire I'm more important than everyone else" mind set but one that recognizes cf members don't just work 8 to 4.

If Pte smith bites his guts all day and his CoC only released him at 15:55 and he how's up at your counter at 16:09 sending him packing sans help is a dick move.

We should treat everything as if we are operational.

I've always found that a simple phone call to the closed section requesting them to open the doors to provide service to myself or one of my troops in situations occurring 'after 1500, but before 1600" has resulted in the door being opened every time with no complaints from either side.

After 1600hrs ... a call to the duty clerk has resulted in mbr receiving services.

Many a time, at clothing stores, I recd calls from the supervisors of troops asking to send someone over because they had just returned from the field and required replacement kit etc before the morning; it was never an issue for myself or my staff. I think the problem in the "Commandments" writer's attitude is that they seem to erroneously believe that "lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine" is actually a valid statement. One can not plan a 2000hrs evening before return with an 0500hrs departure the next day. One can not plan that kit would be lost/destroyed in the field and require immediate replacement as troop IS in the field.

If it were so, those DUTY cell numbers would not exist. [sarcasm] Perhaps the writer believes that DUTY numbers are for personal use vice DUTY requirements? [/end sarcasm]

 

[Jarnhamar]

Leading Change for suggesting we are not "Customers" and that "Customers" is somehow a new phenomena due to the "civilianization" of the CF??

Not quite.

i actually have NO clue what leading change mean- it just sounds funny to me so I used it sarcastically.

I've always found that a simple phone call to the closed section requesting them to open the doors to provide service to myself or one of my troops in situations occurring 'after 1500, but before 1600" has resulted in the door being opened every time with no complaints from either side.

After 1600hrs ... a call to the duty clerk has resulted in mbr receiving services.

Many a time, at clothing stores, I recd calls from the supervisors of troops asking to send someone over because they had just returned from the field and required replacement kit etc before the morning; it was never an issue for myself or my staff. I think the problem in the "Commandments" writer's attitude is that they seem to erroneously believe that "lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine" is actually a valid statement. One can not plan a 2000hrs evening before return with an 0500hrs departure the next day. One can not plan that kit would be lost/destroyed in the field and require immediate replacement as troop IS in the field.

If it were so, those DUTY cell numbers would not exist. [sarcasm] Perhaps the writer believes that DUTY numbers are for personal use vice DUTY requirements? [/end sarcasm]

Army.ca seems to attract people who "get it".


Just something interesting.
On TF0306 the support from support trades was pretty bad.  "It's 1605 we closed at 1600" was the standard. On TF0308 someone decided all the deployed CF pers in KAF would take a trip outside the wire- I was told it was intended to garner some sympathy for the field guys.  Now most of the time the convoys got from point A to point B without incident and I'm not certain THIS was the reason for it (going outside the wire) but the amount of support (and how we were delt with by) clothing, clerks etc.. was 100% better I felt.

 

[ModlrMike]

I recollect as the Clinic WO in Shilo that I had to change the mindset of the troops as one of my first tasks. There was a sentiment that folks arriving outside of posted hours were an inconvenience to be barely tolerated. It took me a year, but I finally managed to instill the perspective that the most important person in any interaction was the "customer". Things improved greatly from there, and there was little bitching about services at the MIR from then on.

The primary role of Service Support is wait........ service support. All of us in this area need to realize that not everyone has the luxury of leaving their workplace a lunch or coffee to get little things done. They can't ask the WO if they can go to the BOR to get something sorted out during "working hours". They can't have tomorrow off (often gratis) because they have appointments. There's no denying that duty pers are inconvenienced by call backs, that's human nature; but it's our DUTY to provide service to those who need it. Just the same, it doesn't excuse some f&%$knuckle with six weeks notice discovering he doesn't have a copy of his medical the morning he's leaving for course.

I would hope that the increase in op tempo over the last 10 years has improved things at the CDU/MIR, but I'm no longer involved with front line medical care, so I don't know. With large numbers of medics having spent their entire tour(s) outside the wire, one would think they have a new appreciation for the average "customer" now.

 

[brihard]

ie use your obscene amount of charm

Whoah, whoah whoah. WHOAH. I call shenanigans, right there.

Sorry buddy, but I know you and 'charming' is not among your many qualities.  ;D

 

[Fusilier]

I've been off line here for some time and it discourages me that so many people feel the way they do about their clerical staff.  I have to agree with Celtic girl that not all clerks are the same.  I have 27 years of both Reserve and Regular force service.  Upon component transfer to the Reg F I was immediately posted to an infantry unit and stayed with them eleven years, every exercise, domestic and international deployment, and have remained with high tempo operational units since that time.
I went from Cpl Company Clerk to Chief clerk, I have tours to Kosovo, Bosnia; and two tours to Afghanistan both as chief clerk of an infantry BG and the JTF HQ - I have been outside the wire.  I have lost many friends throughout my career and have pushed my grief away in order to do my utmost to ensure that my part, the admin part was done quickly and accurately in order to support the ones left behind.  I gave up much of my time with my own family, staying long hours after spending the day training with the troops for missions spending my nights working on the soldiers (customers) administration to ensure they were all GTG to deploy. 
I am a chief clerk, I am responsible for the pay and administration for all members of my unit.  I am responsible for the proper training and mentoring of my staff, I am responsible to ensure my staff are not bullied, over tasked and burnt out.  However, my priority and the priority of my staff is the troops first and formost.  I am nearing the end of my career and doing the best I can to pass on not just trade knowledge to my clerks but to instil a sense of responsibility and ownership in regards to administering troops.  It's not perfect; I'm burned out.
Jim Seggie, I was your clerk in A Coy and Cbt Sp - sorry buddy but yes you were a soldier but you were also a customer seeking services from me and which I provided and on the many exercises etc I was rarely behind a desk but out with you guys trying to soldier.  I'm disappointed that you can not get past minor terminology. 
The original post was meant to be amusing, it is and should be taken with a grain of salt.  It also could apply to many other trades within the CF. 
Those of you who have issues with your clerical staff - talk to them about it, talk to their supervisors - we are not perfect and we can't fix what we don't know about.

 

[aesop081]

The original post was meant to be amusing,

It failed.

 

[Jarnhamar]

t you were also a customer seeking services from me and which I provided and on the many exercises etc I was rarely behind a desk but out with you guys trying to soldier.  I'm disappointed that you can not get past minor terminology. 

I don't see it as a minor terminology.
The "CF is a business" mindset that so many people seem to have is ruining our effectiveness.  We can't order a piece of gear and get it when we need it because it's treated as a business.  10 years for the new rucksack? All the bitching back and forth about what company gets what tender and who passes the specs and who fails, lawsuits because this that or the other thing is unfair- money money money.

Calling someone a customer tongue in cheek is one thing, promoting the business mindset that is strangling us is another.

IMO.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

But some people want to play grown-up and use all that fancy smancy civie talk don't ya know!  ;D

 

[Maxadia]

The original post was meant to be amusing, it is and should be taken with a grain of salt.  It also could apply to many other trades within the CF. 
Those of you who have issues with your clerical staff - talk to them about it, talk to their supervisors - we are not perfect and we can't fix what we don't know about.

If it needs to be taken with a grain of salt, then it's not going to be amusing to all, and most likely only to those it pertains to - hence the comments to "keep it to yourself".

The original post smacks of arrogance, regardless if it is comic arrogance or not. Anyone who is a clerk should know better than to toss something like that on here.  I seriously doubt the entire clerical staff would find a post titled "10 Ways That Clerical Staff **** Me Off" funny.  Some would, yes, but most would realize something like that is going to incite resentment right away.

 

[Fusilier]

Obviously there are pers here who have issues with their admin , everyone is hot under the collar on this topic .  I suggest that this topic be closed as its getting nowhere other than an opportunity for many to trash a particular trade of the CF.

 

[aesop081]

  I suggest that this topic be closed as its getting nowhere other than an opportunity for many to trash a particular trade of the CF.

Funny, the original post had no problem trashing everyone else.

 

[Good2Golf]

Funny, the original post had no problem trashing everyone else.

...but only if you took it too seriously. 

 

[Journeyman]

......everyone is hot under the collar on this topic. I suggest that this topic be closed as its getting nowhere other than an opportunity for many to trash a particular trade of the CF.

Gee, some people appear to be expressing displeasure with RMS support (granted, sparked by what was clearly intended as humour) -- and your obvious solution is to eliminate any discussion.

I guess that would be the equivalent of the "14:30 -- go away" sign, and that it applies here too.    :

 

[Wookilar]

I've been CSS my entire career and I have always hated the "client" or "customer" labels. I am a soldier, doing my job to ensure that my fellow soldiers can do their job.

While I am a firm believer in using best practices from the civilian business world, we must be able to differentiate between the useful stuff (best value for purchases, modern contracting procedures) and the stuff that is generally useless (bankers business hours, "overtime").

Maybe it's because I started in the EME world in a field unit where there are no regular working hours and have since switched to the Log world where they some are too focused on the civilian business model.

In my experience, I have seen this type of attitude more often from those CSS troops (of all trades) that started their careers on bases and nonoperational sides of air bases. Many people in this kind of environment seem to develop something akin to small man syndrome that they carry with them when they eventually get posted to an operational unit (be it any environment).

If anyone has their doubts that this type of attitude exists, look no further than when 1 Svc Bn was posted to Edmonton. We had a near-70% turnover in snr nco and near-40% in jnr nco (I am not aware of the officer turnover). The CSS career managers of the time were directed to move people out of the wings and bases and back to the field (where many had never been).

The release rate after the infamous 8 week exercise between the move from Calgary to Edmonton made my head spin as many people simply refused to work in that environment. I don't know how many people I had tell me, as I was conducting a class on how to put together webbing in what is now Clothing Stores (or was when i left at least), that they "didn't join up to do this crap."

Soldier first. I am not providing good customer service (yes I know that's what some sections are called in Sup and Tn), I am supporting my brothers and sisters-in-arms. If we want to get rid of this civilianized attitude, we must supplant it with this military one.

Now, I just need to be put in charge of CFSAL 

Wook

 

[George Wallace]

Just out of curiousity, how many of you have RMS Clerks who have productive civilian occupations/professions (and I am not talking about Reservists here) outside of their military duties?

 

[LineJumper]

And how many Lineman/ Veh Techs, etc pad their personal beer funds outside of their duties? My toys aren't a product of service.

 

[George Wallace]

And how many Lineman/ Veh Techs, etc pad their personal beer funds outside of their duties? My toys aren't a product of service.

Are you doing that while on the Queen's Schilling or are you doing that after duty? 

 

[armyvern]

I don't see it as a minor terminology.

It's a minor terminology; it is not the root of the problem. That minor terminology has been around for at least 3.5 decades now - long before the CF was forced to be run like a business in it's procurement and acquisition process.

The "CF is a business" mindset that so many people seem to have is ruining our effectiveness.  We can't order a piece of gear and get it when we need it because it's treated as a business.  10 years for the new rucksack? All the bitching back and forth about what company gets what tender and who passes the specs and who fails, lawsuits because this that or the other thing is unfair- money money money.

Bang on --- and 99.99% of Sup Techs would absolutely agree with you on this too.

Calling someone a customer tongue in cheek is one thing, promoting the business mindset that is strangling us is another.

IMO.

The root of the problem: The fact that the CF is forced by it's it's Procurement and Acquisition process into having pers who need to treat us as a business/manage their budgets. 100% accrural accounting - I don't see it going anywhere soon.