The Ten Commandments of RMS Clerks

[Eye In The Sky]

First of all, soldiers aren't customers, they're soldiers. Soldiers sometimes need assistance outside normal office hours.

I am glad someone else noticed this and said something.  I, for one, despise this "customer" BS.  I am a customer at my VW dealer, or MEC or a restaurant.

The civilianization of the CF has gone to far, with words like 'customer' and 'supervisor', just to name 2 of them very quickly.

 

[LineJumper]

op:

 

[Jarnhamar]

I am glad someone else noticed this and said something.  I, for one, despise this "customer" BS.  I am a customer at my VW dealer, or MEC or a restaurant.

The civilianization of the CF has gone to far, with words like 'customer' and 'supervisor', just to name 2 of them very quickly.

There you go again leading change

 

[OldSolduer]

There you go again leading change

Well at least he's leading......not managing....

 

[mariomike]

I, for one, despise this "customer" BS. 

I was curious if use of the word is official.
They use it in the first sentence, and highlight it in the second:
http://www.borden.forces.gc.ca/index-eng.asp

 

[OldSolduer]

When I freer to the military people in our organizations, I refuse to use the words "client" , "customers" or anything else civilian. You are soldiers, sailors and airmen, and not my "client".

We need to get back to this mindset WRT "customers" and "clients".

 

[Celticgirl]

Wow, I did not expect this volume of responses, let alone such ferocity.    Clearly, some members have issues with their ORs.

FYI, folks:  I posted this because I thought it was cute/funny, albeit in an exaggerated way.  I didn't write it and don't agree with all of it.  It just gave me a chuckle, so I passed it on.

I have not been in the clerk trade for very long (and anyone who has followed my story knows this is not where I started out), but I do feel it necessary at this point to say that there ARE some of us who take our jobs seriously and do make an effort to be as courteous and efficient as possible.  I can assure you that I try to put myself in every member's shoes when doing my job and try to get them the most/best available within the regulations possible and will go to bat for them when I think it is warranted.  Ultimately, it is someone a lot higher than me on the food chain who says yay or nay.  Do not shoot the messenger.  

Cdn Aviator, I personally haven't lost any member's paperwork yet, but I am sure that it has happened plenty of times to plenty of members.  There are duds in any trade.  Please take George Wallace's advice and keep copies of absolutely everything.  It is YOUR career, after all.  8)  I always encourage members to keep copies of submitted paperwork and even go so far as to make them a copy myself.

With regards to the complaints about clerk hours, I can only tell you that at my unit, we have a 'duty clerk' at all times (24/7 with a duty phone and duty book) and I have absolutely been called on evenings, weekends, and yes, even at 0300 hrs, to help a member with something.  One member was sweet enough to send a nice email to my Admin O praising me up for my assistance, and I certainly appreciated the recognition, although it wasn't necessary...I was just doing my job.  Also, when our window closes, we still get plenty of knocks at the door and have yet to turn anyone away (I even joked with a SAR tech ldr that I had better help him out if I hoped to be rescued at some point in the future...haha ).  My fellow clerks and I have all stayed late at various times to work on things for members and we have come in early to make sure something was arranged for someone when there was a short time limit.  I can't speak for all clerks and all units, but please don't paint us all as uncaring, clock-out-as-soon-as-I-can types.  Some of us do give a shyte.  No matter how much you pizz us off sometimes. 

One last thing:  Jim Seggie, for the few years I have been doing this, I have always heard (and used) the word "customer".  Many of us clerks do believe we are in customer service and that the other members are customers that we are "serving".  Servitus Nulli Secundus!

Cheers to all of you who are striving to do your best at whatever your trade is!!!! :cheers:

 

[OldSolduer]

Soldiers are soldiers....you serve them, however they are soldiers. They are not purchasing goods or services  from you; they are ther because they need your particular skill in administration.

 

[Celticgirl]

Soldiers are soldiers....you serve them, however they are soldiers. They are not purchasing goods or services  from you; they are ther because they need your particular skill in administration.

Very true.  I serve them and their admin/fin needs, therefore they are my 'customers'.  I am a soldier, too, and usually the other members are cognizant of that (except maybe on civvy Fridays). 

One additional point I forgot to mention above ~ I agree that it is crappy to make someone wait at the counter while you dish about your past or future weekend plans, etc.  I've been victim to it myself and so I know how it feels and therefore strive to never let anyone wait more than a few seconds at 'our' counter regardless of how busy I am.  Rude is rude.  Totally agree on that point!

 

[Celticgirl]

And if I were a clerk, I sure wouldn't be forwarding this little "gem" around, not even to fellow clerks, much less to the members that have to bear the burden of admin errors.

Well, ballz, I guess I can live with your low esteem of me.  After all, you have no idea what I am like in real life, both personally and professionally, and therefore, your opinion of what I 'forward' isn't going to pop my happy balloon.    Have a nice day.

 

[Good2Golf]

I was curious if use of the word is official.
They use it in the first sentence, and highlight it in the second:
http://www.borden.forces.gc.ca/index-eng.asp

Perhaps part of the issue may be the emphasis on a cost-effective, vice operational mindset of the Base where CF administration is taught?

The mission of Canadian Forces Base Borden (CFB Borden) is to support all of its customers in the most cost effective manner to enable them to accomplish their missions.

Cost effective may not necessarily equate to operationally effective, a level of effectiveness expected of operational units or elements of the CF.

I have been fortunate in my career as I have generally had excellent experiences with admin support.  That said, the exceptions were not any more frequent than the exceptions to excellent MSE support, or Supply support, etc... 

Furthermore, as the average experience of CF members becomes significantly reduced at respective ranks across the board, we may find ourselves frustrated as we expect levels of knowledge and experience that no longer exist.  The impact of this phenomenon may be particularly frustrating for CF members who continue to work in operational environments that are no more forgiving now than they were when experience levels CF-wide in the past were notably higher. 

Yes, I would like to think that members' frustrations would be held in check professionally when communicating with clerical support personnel; however, I would equally expect that those providing clerical support to other CF members would be mindful of the operational perspective (and real-life dangers) that exists beyond the confines of their UOR/BOR cubicle.

Regards
G2G

p.s. For some reason, this thread reminds me of the time I got some funny looks from my passengers during a pre-flight briefing I gave prior to a familiarization flight.  The passengers included a number of RMS clerks.  During the briefing, I told all the passengers that, even though I was the aircraft captain, each and every passenger that day was responsible and accountable for the safe conduct of the flight, even in an emergency situation.  A bunch of hands shot up as I fielded questions and statements about how that wasn't fair, or realistic, or appropriate.  I asked, "Why isn't it fair?  You're all benefitting from the flight."  They told me they weren't trained how to fly a helicopter, especially just a few feet over the ground at over 200 km/h.  I told them, "Of course it's fair.  It's no different than when clerks tell me that I'm responsible for all aspects of my pay!  I'm still waiting for that QL3 pay course and access to CFPS that I asked the BAdmO for."  They all got a chuckle out of the (semi)joke and I never had any problems with that BOR... 

 

[Celticgirl]

I would equally expect that those providing clerical support to other CF members would be mindful of the operational perspective (and real-life dangers) that exists beyond the confines of their UOR/BOR cubicle.

Absolutely agree, G2G.  I'll give a real-life example from this past week (my last post on this tonight as it is getting to be waaay past my bedtime ).  I was booking flights for pilots going to the UK for a week of sim trg.  I had the option of booking a direct red-eye flight (arriving the day prior to the start of the taskings) or a $300 p.p. cheaper flight option that included a couple of U.S. connectors and would mean the mbrs would be travelling for an entire day and then some.  Although the regs say to always go with 'most economical', I had no qualms telling the AMEX operator that I was not going to subject the mbrs to that amount of time and tribulation prior to a tasking in which they needed to be mentally alert.  I booked the red-eye flight.  If an auditor ever questions me about it (they can call AMEX and find out who was the booking agent and what flights were offered and declined), I will also have no qualms telling them the same thing, even if they disagree with my logic.  I have no doubt that the pilots in question will perform better with the flight I booked them than with the lower-fare alternative, and I will sleep well knowing I did what I could to assist them in their operational role.  Not every TD has this requirement, of course, and the most economical means is still what we always shoot for...but we are a SUPPORT trade and that is absolutely what we should be doing.

Besides, it's not like I got them first class tickets with hot towelettes and caviar appetizers.  ;D

 

[Loachman]

I can't speak for all clerks and all units, but please don't paint us all as uncaring, clock-out-as-soon-as-I-can types.  Some of us do give a shyte.

Yes, but like any readily-identifiable group, you get the blame for your duds.

I have two Clerks working for me. Both are brilliant, especially my Sergeant, and do stuff far beyond the boundaries of their trade, and well past official quitting time most days. I could not function without them.

 

[ballz]

EDIT:

Getting off track. Mods, please feel free to delete this.

 

[Sythen]

Besides, it's not like I got them first class tickets with hot towelettes and caviar appetizers.  ;D

But they're air force! How did they survive without? 

Jokes  >

 

[PuckChaser]

EDIT:

Getting off track. Mods, please feel free to delete this.

Its in Radio Chatter, this is where shenanigans posts are supposed to happen...

 

[Jarnhamar]

I've found in the reserves if your claim is taking too long you can get creative- ie use your obscene amount of charm to convince the clerks civilian friend to lie to the clerk and pretend you owe her (civilian) money so she bitches at the clerk to speed up the claim so she can get 'her' money via you getting paid with the claim.  It's funny how a claim in waiting for 7 months can get processed in under a week. 

My current clerk is phenomenal and at least twice a week I drop by his office and ask him if I can buy him a coffee or snack as a thank you for the great work he's doing at such a thankless job.


I think it's safe to say whoever came up with these 10 commandments had their head up their ass and just butt hurt over it.

 

[Timmy!]

therefore they are my 'customers'.

And this is why I want out of the Logistics branch. It's all numbers and blowing sunshine up "customers"  butts. I never "care" for it, hints the OT in the future. I'll do my job now.


Just blows my mind with the Empire in Ottawa enforces.

"Do you have a fin code?"
"No, you can't have a car"
"Your 404's is expired"
"Yup, I drive around in circles all day."
"No we shut down at 1530hr, not 1445hr"
"You are no longer qualified on such vehicle.."
etc..


And then the MDO's get the nice highway runs with over time. And I get a local "drunk bus" runs over the week end.

Not all Logistics trades are Monday-Friday deal. And then no block leave in my trade/unit.

Oh The RCR has block leave. Guess where I'm going?
Yeah, it's time for an OT.  ;D

 

[Monsoon]

Although the regs say to always go with 'most economical', I had no qualms telling the AMEX operator that I was not going to subject the mbrs to that amount of time and tribulation prior to a tasking in which they needed to be mentally alert.  I booked the red-eye flight.

Actually, here's what "the regs" (CFTDTIs) say about international air travel (s8.30):

(2) (Members) Subject to paragraph 8.20(2) (Selection), a member — who is not a senior
officer — is:

• (a) in respect of a flight or series of flights in which the total travelling time — from takeoff at the first airport to landing at the last airport — is nine or more hours without an overnight stay during those hours, entitled both to travel in business class and to be reimbursed for actual and reasonable expenses for that travel; and
• 
  (b) in any other case, entitled both to travel in economy class and to be reimbursed for actual and reasonable expenses for that travel.
  

If you search "most economical" in CFTDTIs, you'll find it occurs exactly once, and is not in any way a description how modes of travel are to be selected. Now of course subordinate HQs and units always like to tack the "most economical means" provision into their joining instructions, but you can safely dismiss this as BS. The words can be read to mean one of two things:

1 - As a synonym for "cheapest", in which case the "most economical" means of transport would always be to force people to hitchhike or ride on tramp steamers. This is obviously not the correct interpretation; or

2 - To mean, "least expensive, given all other operational considerations and applicable regulations". The applicable regulations are CFTDTIs, which are set by DCBA and based on the Treasury Board Travel Directive that governs all travel in the federal government. No subordinate HQ or unit can amend or deny these mandated travel benefits, any more than they can specify "member to be paid at 50% of salary for duration of TD" in the joining instructions either.

In your example, you actually followed the regulations to the letter and saved the CF money by booking travel for the members on the shorter international route, thus getting around the need to book them on business class. I don't blame you for not knowing about how these regulations should be read (many quite senior clerks don't know it either), but you need to understand the benefits members are entitled to if you're going to allocate them correctly.

 

[SupersonicMax]

4) YOU SHALL NOT MAKE WRONGFUL USE OF THE NAME OF THE COMMANDING OFFICER, MY BOSS, YOUR BOSS.

I am certain that they would rather keep me around than you.

Really?

5) REMEMBER THE ORDERLY ROOM HOURS, AND KEEP THEM HOLY.

Don't be banging on the doors thirty minutes before we open, there's no clerks logged into the computer to check on your pay or to look something up for you. Unless it is an emergency, as decided by the Chief Clerk or CO, don't expect to be let in five minutes past closing, we're trying to clean up our backlog and figure out complicated crap to benefit you without a million interruptions. As for all of you piss-poor planners who make your screw-ups our emergency and hassle us for results incessantly and wonder when we don't respond immediately, Take the hint! Fail to plan, plan to fail. Give more advance notice. Provide what information is required and GTFO.

I'll caveat my comment by saying that our unit has the best OR in the entire CF.  I am not kidding.

If/When I am a CO, it will be that the OR follows the operation's schedule. If we are night flying, OR the be manned from 3hrs before the first launch to 2 hrs after the last landing.  Operations should not be accommodating support.  I have issues with the tail wagging the dog.

Reminds me of an anecdote...  When in Trapani last year, the OR had a sign: "OR Hours of Operations: 0900-1100 AND 1300-1500. Closed Sunday".  Well, doing combat operations at any time of the day, you may not be around during those times, especially if you are on a night schedule.

We put on our Mission Planning door: "CF-18 Operations: 0000-2359. Monday to Sunday".  They did not like that...