The Khadr Thread

[The Bread Guy]

He might not find it as easy going as he envisions......there's still a huge resentment quotient out there about what he is and has done......

For sure, but I don't think this kind of wording ends up in Canadian diplomatic correspondence without the highest approvals:

.... The Canadian Embassy said in a memo dated Oct. 23, 2010, the Canadian government "is inclined to favourably consider" a request for a transfer to Canada for Khadr to serve the rest of his sentence after another year at Guantanamo ....

How long will it be before he does something after he's paroled? Don't say he won't see the light of day either...he'll be out soon enough due to a sympathetic public.

Indeed "when", not "if".

 

[FlyingDutchman]

I cannot help but feel sorry for him, mostly due to his age at the time of his arrest.  I hope other teens/kids do not follow his path.  Please note I do agree he does deserve punishment for his crime.

 

[tomahawk6]

He was all of what 14 when he killed his first US soldier ? Maybe he should move into your neighborhood  Dutchman.

 

[FlyingDutchman]

Yes, 14, a technical child soilder who idolized his father and made a bad choice due to that idolization.  If he is truly reformed he can go where ever he pleases.  If not, well, keep your friends close.

 

[ModlrMike]

The reality is that he is a Canadian citizen and has the right to return. However... the courts have the ability to impose severe, even draconian restrictions on him pursuant to his release. Whether they have the guts to do so is another question.

 

[krustyrl]

My opinion, and mine alone, I just as soon prefer this terrorist stay the h*ll out of my country.  Those types are not welcome by me.      :2c:

 

[jollyjacktar]

My opinion, and mine alone, I just as soon prefer this terrorist stay the h*ll out of my country.  Those types are not welcome by me.      :2c:

I'll second that.  And the rest of his clan can join him outside Canada too.

 

[OldSolduer]

I cannot help but feel sorry for him, mostly due to his age at the time of his arrest.  I hope other teens/kids do not follow his path.  Please note I do agree he does deserve punishment for his crime.

Give me a f***in break. 14 year olds know right from wrong.


No body from the Khadr clan feels badly about our 157 fallen......RIP troops.

 

[FlyingDutchman]

Yes, I know, see where I say he deserves punishment, which you quoted.

Alright, it appears that I may be coming along as soft for him.  I do feel sorry for him, as I said, but not in a 'poor guy, as a canadian kid he should have been wisked to canada and let go instantly' but more of a 'stupid kid, he should have known better, he had his whole life ahead of him but he killed a soilder which makes him an enemy and now we must watch him like a hawk.'. Do I have hope that he is reformed? Yes, but not alot.  Do I trust him?  Hell no, especially after he was in Gitmo, where he probably was influenced by older terrorists.

 

[Journeyman]

Quoting yourself so it looks like someone agrees with you?  ???

 

[FlyingDutchman]

Doh, quote is right beside modify.

 

[brihard]

He's our problem. He was born here. He's a Canadian. His parents radicalized him and brainwashed him from his youth and he became an ideological enemy of our way of life- yet under any system of law other than that farce of a one applied at Guantanamo he would have been afforded all the protections of either a young offender, a prisoner of war, or a child soldier. Like everyone else, he was not born with an innate concept of 'right and wrong', but learned his from those around him- and everything he heard told him that what he did was 'right' and even virtuous. Many of us, I think, are pretty aware of how damned hard it can be to deal with belligerents who genuinely think themselves to be morally correct in their actions.

I'm certainly convinced that he was guilty of committing hostilities- the video of him planting an IED, for instance. The murder charge though? B.S. He was all screwed up from grenades and had been shot several time. The Americans needed someone they could throw in court, and here was the kid inconveniently alive- even I'll concede it would have been simpler (and probably better) had he simply been killed as a combatant.

But he wasn't.

In war, once an enemy survives hostile action, there is a legal obligation to treat them with respect to their legal and human rights. That's what separates us us from the bloody heathens that we condemn for their barbarity.

Bringing Khadr back home is the only real course of action that will at all ameliorate the perversion of justice that was his incarceration, his Kangaroo Kourt trial, his psychologically coerced confession and his conviction. It's an ugly situation, but doing what is right is what makes Canada worth being proud of. He'll be watched by CSIS for the rest of his life- he'll never have the *opportunity* to be a threat to Canada. And meanwhile we can all be sure that our country has done what is right.

 

[FlyingDutchman]

Thank you, Brihard said it better than I ever could (even when I am not so hopped on cold meds that I tried to start my car with a fork this morning, and took my wife's cell phone thinking it was my wallet... and I may have tried to drink pasta sauce...)

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I see no reason whatsoever for bringing him home before he has served his entire, full sentence in the US.

Then he can come back and spend the rest of his life under a microscope.

 

[krustyrl]

I agree with recceguy.  Serve the full sentence without early release. Of course he would most likely be a "model" prisoner given his injuries and possibly mobility but make him serve the full time. 
Keep him out of Canada as long as legally possible, I say.

 

[brihard]

Don't kid yourselves. Everything about this was carefully orchestrated so as to serve everyone's interests. Khadr would no doubt have continued to remain detained essentially indefinitely had he and his team continued to pursue the myriad challenges available against the Guantanamo system; he would have been there for several years more. Inevitably, U.S. courts must necessarily have frowned upon how things go down there had appeals continued to challenge the military commissions on various constitutional grounds. He would have remained in limbo in Guantanamo for years. America would have continued to have been embarrassed by having a child soldier as the poster boy for their atrocious detainee system. The Canadian government would have continued to have been embarrassed by media attention and by court rulings.

Instead, and facilitated by the years of psychological pressure, all Khadr had to do was cave, give a confession that I'm convinced was largely bullshit, and he gets a rather short sentence which brings him back to Canada promptly. Everyone gets to sweep it under the rug, the underlying constitutional issues in both Canada and the U.S. get to be ignored, and Khadr, whose life is completely f***** anyway, gets to move on some years earlier than he would have. It's a complete perversion of justice and the rule of law in the interests of realpolitik.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Don't kid yourselves. Everything about this was carefully orchestrated so as to serve everyone's interests. Khadr would no doubt have continued to remain detained essentially indefinitely had he and his team continued to pursue the myriad challenges available against the Guantanamo system; he would have been there for several years more. Inevitably, U.S. courts must necessarily have frowned upon how things go down there had appeals continued to challenge the military commissions on various constitutional grounds. He would have remained in limbo in Guantanamo for years. America would have continued to have been embarrassed by having a child soldier as the poster boy for their atrocious detainee system. The Canadian government would have continued to have been embarrassed by media attention and by court rulings.

Instead, and facilitated by the years of psychological pressure, all Khadr had to do was cave, give a confession that I'm convinced was largely bullshit, and he gets a rather short sentence which brings him back to Canada promptly. Everyone gets to sweep it under the rug, the underlying constitutional issues in both Canada and the U.S. get to be ignored, and Khadr, whose life is completely f***** anyway, gets to move on some years earlier than he would have. It's a complete perversion of justice and the rule of law in the interests of realpolitik.

You are entitled to your opinion. However, I don't agree with it. While there is inevitably politics involved, in my mind he's still a traitor, terrorist and a killer, who has been judged and should be treated as such. I passed through my kumbaya stage over forty years ago and have no wish to return to that skewed view of the world.

 

[brihard]

You are entitled to your opinion. However, I don't agree with it. While there is inevitably politics involved, in my mind he's still a traitor, terrorist and a killer, who has been judged and should be treated as such. I passed through my kumbaya stage over forty years ago and have no wish to return to that skewed view of the world.

That 'Kumbaya' stage you're referring to is my firm adherence to the concept of the rule of law, and the values and principles upon which our country is founded and which makes the flag worth wearing on my left shoulder. It's not some naive idea of a world where unicorns shit rainbows and where the children of the third world happily dance on streets cobbled with candy.

You take any kid who's been brought up in a family like that that has decided to make him believe the same things, and he will. You think he's any different, psychologically, from the Madrassa kids who get taken apart by 25mm or a mortar strike when they're spotted planting an IED? Or a kid in Africa who is kidnapped, given an AK and forced into combat after systemic ideological brainwashing? We merely look on them with pity, wishing circumstances had allowed them to be raised differently. This isn't a human being who's made some conscious decision to be evil despite knowing better; it's a kid who was brought up to know 'evil' in a different way from you and I, and whose conceptions of such can be fixed. In any case, he is a Canadian citizen by right of birth, just like you or I. He is a human being, and entitled to be treated as such. It is incumbent upon our government to see that since the U.S. has not justly represented his legal interests that we seek to do so inasmuch as is possible.

The funny thing about 'terrorist, traitor, and killer' is that those are all legal constructs that are enumerated under our laws, and indeed the laws of the U.S.- and not the ones that America created and then retroactively applied to his case in an ex post facto perversion of justice. He was 'tried' under law that didn't come into existence until 2006 for actions he was alleged to have done in 2002. I challenge you to find me a jurisdiction in any free society where that kind of thing happens. The Guantanamo military commissions are a quasi-judicial system that would have done the Cheka proud. They certainly are not in any way consistent with the values that the free world defends.

Khadr was 15 when he was taken in. That makes him either a young offender or a child soldier. America decided it was *inconvenient* to treat him and other detainees in a manner consistent with international law, and so out of pure expediency created a variety of legal fictions that have allowed them to more conveniently sweep this shame under the rug.

It has been a constant disappointment for me in the 10 years of the 'war on terror' to see otherwise principled persons so easily cast our principles and ethics aside out of expediency. I'm far more afraid of what it means for our society to abandon these principles than I am of what some terrorist piece of shit can do to our people, property, or infrastructure. Those are all much more easily rebuilt.

 

[jollyjacktar]

You are entitled to your opinion. However, I don't agree with it. While there is inevitably politics involved, in my mind he's still a traitor, terrorist and a killer, who has been judged and should be treated as such. I passed through my kumbaya stage over forty years ago and have no wish to return to that skewed view of the world.

Exactly.  I have no pity in my heart for him or his clan.  He made his bed, choice of side to take and now must lie with the concequences.  Such a shame I don't see any thoughts directed towards his victim, Christopher Speer or his family from the hand wringers out there.

 

[PuckChaser]

So when Khadr gets home and starts preaching terrorism or gets himself involved in that crowd again, it's all just because he's been brainwashed? I don't buy it.