The Khadr Thread

[KevinB]

Please avoid the word 'repatriate'. This is not "repatriation". This is laughing at us all the way to the terrorist bank.

Roger that.

I cannot fathom the stupidity of Canadians in wanting this guy back (and I know the vast majority of this board does not want him for anything but target practice).

IMHO the CF and the Cdn Gov should roll back the NDA and Q&RO's to 99, and sentence him to execution by firing squad for treason, he is a Cdn citizen, killed an allied soldier and deserves to die at the hands of a Canadian soldier firing C77 ball into his sorry ass.

 

[GAP]

Khadr sentenced 40 years, plea bargain for eight
Article Link
By BRYN WEESE, Parliamentary Bureau, QMI Agency
Last Updated: October 31, 2010 5:45pm

GUANTANAMO BAY US NAVAL BASE, Cuba - Canada's Omar Khadr to has been sentenced to 40 years behind bars for his war crimes, but will be free in eight because of a plea deal.

It took the military jury here just over eight hours over two days to hand down their sentence.

A plea deal, struck earlier this month, limits the time Khadr will spend in jail to eight years, with the last seven possibly served in Canada.

Sunday's sentence wraps up a week-long sentencing hearing here, which followed Khadr pleading guilty to murder, attempted murder, supporting terrorism, spying and conspiracy on Monday.

The jury, a seven-member panel of U.S. military officers from postings around the world, began deliberating Khadr's sentence Saturday at 11 a.m.

They handed down their sentence, which was 15 years more than the prosecution was asking for, Sunday at 5 p.m.

In closing arguments Saturday, the prosecution had portrayed Khadr as an "accomplished" al-Qaida terrorist who murdered U.S. Sgt. first class Christopher Speer with a grenade during a July 2002 Afghan firefight and attempted to murder "countless others" by making and planting roadside bombs.

Jeff Groharing, one of the prosecutor's in the case, said not only would the jury's sentence hold Khadr responsible for his actions, it would also send a strong message to other terrorists, that, "the United States will not tolerate the cowardly acts of terrorism and terrorists will be punished severely."

"We will meet you any day in the battlefield Š but al-Qaida is not an army and its terrorists like Omar Khadr are not soldiers," Groharing said in his closing arguments Saturday. "Omar Khadr is not a rockstar and he's not a victim. He's a terrorist and a murderer. Tell him that with your sentence."

While life behind bars was a possible sentence, even "appropriate" according to Groharing, the government asked for 25 years given Khadr's age of 15 when he committed his crimes.
More on link

Don’t welcome back Khadr
Slam shut Canadian doors to this psychopath — we don’t need him on our streets
By EZRA LEVANT, QMI Agency Last Updated: October 31, 2010 2:00am
Article Link

When life gets you down, what do you think about to raise your spirits? What’s the “happy place” in your mind? Someone you love? Something you’ve done that makes you proud?

When prison life got Omar Khadr down, he said he would think about how it felt to kill Christopher Speer, the U.S. army medic he murdered in Afghanistan.

Daydreaming about murdering Speer “would make him feel good.” He “felt happy” when he learned that Speer had died.

Khadr said building remote-controlled roadside bombs to kill American soldiers in Afghanistan was “the proudest moment of his life.” He had a special hatred for Jews.

That’s no run-of-the-mill murderer. That’s Russell Williams stuff. It’s Paul Bernardo territory. Normal people would feel remorse or disgust at taking a life. Only psychopaths feel pleasure and re-enact the murderers again and again in their minds.

Khadr is a psychopath. And he’s coming back to Canada.

The details of the secret deal between Canada’s foreign minister, Lawrence Cannon, and U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton have not been revealed. But reports out of Guantanamo Bay are that Khadr will be sentenced to eight years in prison: One year in the U.S. before coming to Canada for the rest of the sentence.

But, under Canadian parole laws, Khadr will be out on the streets almost immediately — likely within months of arriving here.

Khadr has never renounced the jihad. He has never renounced al-Qaida. And he most certainly has not renounced murdering Speer.
More on link

 

[HavokFour]

If he is allowed back into this country I am seriously considering organizing a protest, anything. Canada does not want this scumbag back.

 

[OldSolduer]

If he is allowed back into this country I am seriously considering organizing a protest, anything. Canada does not want this scumbag back.

I agree. We may have no choice as he is a Canadian citizen...one of very dubious loyalties. Make your feelings known to your MP.

 

[HavokFour]

I agree. We may have no choice as he is a Canadian citizen...one of very dubious loyalties. Make your feelings known to your MP.

Writing him up now. If anyone else wants to write their MP but do not know who that may be, look here.

 

[GAP]

Will it take a coalition to welcome back Khadr?
Norman Spector Globe and Mail Update Posted on Sunday, October 31, 2010
Article Link

Contrary to some reports last week, there was no agreement between Lawrence Cannon and Hillary Clinton that Omar Khadr would return to Canada after serving another year at Guantanamo. As Paul Koring is reporting, the United States will allow him to make the request, but the "decision on that is solely up to the Canadian government." Which is pretty much what Vic Toews – the minister responsible for the International Transfer of Offenders Act – said last week.

Given the overwhelming sympathy for Mr. Khadr in media circles, one can imagine a re-elected minority Conservative government – especially one with a thinner plurality – allowing Mr. Khadr to come home, where he could expect an early release on parole. However, in light of the 40 year sentence voted by the jury – and judging from the tone of this column, the Conservative base will likely remain quite bloody-minded at the prospect of Mr. Khadr's re-patriation. Moreover, Mr. Khadr’s lawyer didn’t do his client any favours by indicating that the stipulation of facts was all “fiction” and that he was “innocent.” And Mr. Khadr’s decision not to testify under oath – as is his right – which would have allowed him to be cross-examined, will raise doubts as to the sincerity of his repentance.

Mr. Khadr’s prospects for repatriation would be much better under a coalition government – which Michael Ignatieff says he's prepared to lead after the next election. And which is now in the cards, according to Frank Graves – though not according to Angus Reid.

How do we know that Mr. Khadr’s prospects would be better under a coalition government?
More on link

 

[George Wallace]

So?  Does it now look like the return of Khadr may become an election issue.  The Left against the Right.  Those wanting his return vs those who don't.  Is it now the time to start the letter writing campaign, especially to the Liberal MPs who will likely be voting the Party Line to have him returned?

 

[PuckChaser]

I'm ok with bringing him back, as long as he ends up in Gen Pop of Kingston Pen. Then, prison justice will probably make him want to go back to Guantanamo.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Is it now the time to start the letter writing campaign, especially to the Liberal MPs who will likely be voting the Party Line to have him returned?

I don't think writting Liberals will help.  Remember the gun registration? Liberals don't seem to mind pulling an 11th hour change of mind.


If Canada takes him back I wonder if he'll grab a university course or two while in prison.

 

[George Wallace]

If Canada takes him back I wonder if he'll grab a university course or two while in prison.

Has he not already stated that he intended to?

 

[Jarnhamar]

No idea but now that you mention it I think I've heard people commenting about that.
Personally  I'll go out of my way not to listen to him sniveling and crying.


I love hearing the left talk about giving him a medal and him running for some kind of office  :

 

[Gunner98]

Run for office?  Maybe we could give his own sitcom - Welcome Back, Khadr!

 

[Fusaki]

Omar Khadr belongs to an Al Qaeda family that, as far as I can tell, only likes Canada when it is time to take advantage of our health care after they've been injured while waging war in support of establishing a global Islamic caliphate.  It's parisitic.

But sentencing him to 40 years in prison for war crimes is unethical and bad for the war effort.  if anything, the plea bargain only underscores how his trial is about politics - not justice.

The LOAC and the Geneva Convention is unsuitable for modern war.  These laws were developed with western-style state vs state conflict in mind, not the kind of population-centric armed social work we carry out in contemporary counter-insurgency or the kind of "global counter-insurgency" we carry out in the course of modern counter-terrorism.  Attempting to apply these antiquated laws in a war against the globalized influence of non-state actors such as Al Qaeda has limited our ability to carry out this war effectively and has lead us to give up much of our moral highground.

What are Canadian soldiers supposed to do in a war where every detainee we take is an unlawful combattant?  Are they all war criminals?  Of course not!  Most of them are just foot soldiers without uniforms.  It's unethical to treat them any less humanely than we would a uniformed enemy combattant.  Likewise, does it make sense to afford insurgents the same protections as non-combattants simply because they're not wearing uniforms? Of course not!  An insurgent who stashes his weapon and attempts to blend into the population is still an insurgent, armed or not.  Will insurgents avoid killing our medics becase it is against the Geneva Convention?  Then why do we still restrict our medics from engaging in aggressive action?  What are we supposed to do when we're sent to a country at the request of an international body to assist in the stabilization of its government, but then we're told that it is illegal hand over detainees to that government if those detainees will be mistreated?  What if we need to work with warlords, drug barons, child-molesting cops, and illiterate and corrupt politicians in the short term, for the sake of long term stability?

We can not, on one hand, say that the current laws are inadequate for the current conflict when they restrict us from doing our job, but then on the other hand seek to apply those laws to the letter when they rationalize our vengeance on a child-soldier.

And that's what Omar Khadr is - a child soldier.  Calling him a murderer and a war criminal because he's an ununiformed combattant for a non-state actor cheapens those terms and it fails to address the nature of modern war.  In the eyes of the world we're seen as hypocrites, undermining our percieved moral highground.  Modern counter-terrorism is about showing the world that we're not the bad guy.  It is about de-legitimizing the cause of Takfiri terrorists in the eyes of the world's Muslim population.

You want to make an example of Omar Khadr?  We should be showing our compassion.

 

[OldSolduer]

Pardon me while I disagree with some of you assertions, Wonderbread.
This individual and his family have shown no loyalty to our nation, nor humanity. Their avowed purpose is to terrorize the nation that welcomed them, while using the benefits of Canadian citizenship. They are traitors, pure and simple.

 

[George Wallace]

I love hearing the left talk about giving him a medal and him running for some kind of office  :

If you really want to get outrageous, think of Louis Riel.  One hundred years (plus) later, we have statues to him, schools named after him, and perhaps a holiday.  Will we see the same thing in one hundred years for a person like Khadr?

 

[GAP]

You're right....Manitoba celebrates traitor day Reil Day..... :

 

[OldSolduer]

The latest prediction is that our poor young misunderstood Khadr will be back on our soil in 18-24 months.  :rage:

 

[brihard]

My thoughts are best summed up elsewhere, so I'll just C&P them here.


If Khadr is in fact guilty of what he has pled guilty to - and I don't for a second doubt that the psychological coercion of eight years at Gitmo has has something to do with it - then he is a piece of shit and probably remains an ideological enemy of our country.

With that said, the manner in which he has been treated has been such a mockery of the rule of law and of common principles of justice as to make me gag. The quasi-judicial process can't even begin to be described as just. He's been slapped with this 'unlawful combatant' status, which is pure legal fiction by the United States to accommodate people they're unwilling to acknowledge as prisoners of war but to whom they don't wish to extend the protections of due process. Frankly, that scares the shit out of me, that the U.S. can arbitrarily invent such a status, enforce it, and yet recognize that it's such a bloody fake and unconstitutional fiction that they dare not try to enact it on the continental United States lest the courts properly kick them back into line.

Instead, out of a cold, cynical expediency and out of a desperation to show that Guantanamo's perversion of law has accomplished anything, they have convicted an individual who was a child at the time of the offense. They have done so through denial of due process, through suppression of evidence, through admission of tainted evidence, through denial of proper representation, and with utter disregard for the presumption of innocence that underlies any real criminal justice system. Guantanamo has been a kangaroo court in its most disgusting and blatant form.

The worst bit, that which pisses me off the most, is that our government (who, I regret to say, I helped to elect) have gone along with this mockery. Not content to allow the United States to piss all over its own rule of law, they've pissed all over ours, utterly disregarding the Supreme Court's findings that the government has a responsibility to govern all our dealings in the case according to our laws.

I'm convinced that Khadr wished us harm, and that given the opportunity he would have fought. I'm not convinced he did in fact do so. I'm not optimistic that he can be rehabilitated.

I am fucking CERTAIN that there is not one bit of harm, real or potential, that he can do to us, our allies, or anything we hold dear which comes close to the harm caused by our acceptance of a perversion of justice, discarding the rule of law, employment of legal fiction, and pandering to fear of the terrorist hiding under the bed in order to normalize the suspension of rights.

In the case of Khadr, both the U.S. and Canada have willingly abandoned the moral high ground that is the only thing that justifies our intervention in ugly, blasted countries. We have comrpomised our own principles in the Khadr case- which begs the question, if we're willing to do that, what the hell are we fighting for?

Khadr is responsible for his actions, whatever they may have been, and a guilty plea was his right to enter. But there is a tremendous burden on the state - both ours, and that of America - to execute its role in the process fairly and with proper resort to actual law. The rule of law is far too important and essential to abandon out of expediency.

I dearly hope that Khadr is returned to Canada and successfully appeals his incarceration under section 7 and that he is released under 24(2). Our government needs to be reminded what the law says, and hopefully such a slap in the face might help America wake up to what it's doing.

I will happily accept the miniscule risk to our safety if he is released, if that means that the rule of law and due process is defended.

This will, I'm sure, be an unpopular opinion around here. I'm fine with that.

 

[The Bread Guy]

If you really want to get outrageous, think of Louis Riel.  One hundred years (plus) later, we have statues to him, schools named after him, and perhaps a holiday.  Will we see the same thing in one hundred years for a person like Khadr?

You're right....Manitoba celebrates traitor day Reil Day..... :

Apples and oranges - even the most die-hard Khadr booster would be hard pressed to make a reasonable case that he was working with AQ to fight against what he considers an unjust Canadian government for the betterment of his own group on Canadian soil 1. 

Meanwhile, according to the Globe & Mail....

The Harper government has agreed to allow convicted war criminal Omar Khadr to return to Canada after he serves one year of sentence in a Guantanamo Bay prison.

Noting the government was not involved in negotiating the sentence, Foreign Affairs Minister Lawrence Cannon confirmed that Ottawa will allow Mr. Khadr’s repatriation during Question Period on Monday.

“We will implement the agreement that was reached between Mr. Khadr and the government of the United States,” Mr. Cannon said in response to a question from Gilles Duceppe.

The Bloc Québécois Leader had asked the minister: “Yes or no, will the Prime Minister authorize the transfer of Omar Khadr once he has served his one year?” .... Picking his words carefully, Mr. Cannon said the “government of Canada did not participate in negotiations around the sentence.”

1 - NOT necessarily agreeing with how Riel is perceived in some circles, only stating what the perception is - that debate is a whooooooooooooooole other thread's worth of discussion.

 

[Kat Stevens]

Does Khadr have a valid, current Canadian passport?  it would be very sad if his RTM were to be delayed because of some beaurocratic hiccup in the long, convoluted process of obtaining/renewing a passport.