The Great Gun Control Debate

[Fishbone Jones]

OK, newly registered after sitting on the side lines as a guest reading with interest. Here goes my first post. Let loose the dogs of sarcasm & criticism.

First off. Remember that a large percentage of "operational" RCMP members (yes many may wear the uniform but few are operational members day to day) were`t / aren`t sitting around crying because the long gun registry is gone. Lots felt quite the opposite. While the CACP was a huge proponent of the registry (for political reasons) the Chiefs don`t speak for the opinion of many of their frontline guys when it comes to publicly sensitive issues.

Front line cops go to all calls thinking about firearms being there. Whether a computer says there is, one, two, sixteen or none at the house, associated to that person. No different than soldiers putting absolute faith in an intel briefing before a patrol. Surprisingly, it may not be fully accurate.

Most of the members I work with use compassion, discretion and common sense when dealing with the public. That included two of my members who were in High River during the floods. Firearms were seized. Was it necessary in every case? I don`t know. In some cases yes it was (left on beds, in living rooms, in garages unsecured) while it was known that less than honest people would be trying to steal from honest people due to the circumstances. So some were seized. Is it as easy to return them. No. Because once they are in our possession we are bound by statute, regulations, policies on how and when we can return them. Have I seen a lot of charges out of firearms violations. No.

Will a complaint investigated by people in Ottawa with no experience in rural policing end up satisfying anyone?

If you'd bothered reading any of this thread, you'd know where most here are coming from.

We don't disagree with, educated, front line officers doing their job.

It's the uneducated, power trippers most law abiding gun owners have trouble with, figuratively and personally. The ones that arrest without knowing the actual laws, the ones that lie to the press and public, the ones that feel themselves above the law they are supposed to maintain.

As for High River, you're entitled to your opinion, but you're only relaying second, third, fourth or whatever hand, you've heard and seemingly biased at that.

We'll see what the various commissions come back with. Hearing, first hand, from people that had guns confiscated, there appears proof someone issued orders or individual officers overstepped their bounds and laws were broken. We'll have to wait and see.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Firearms were seized. Was it necessary in every case? I don`t know. In some cases yes it was (left on beds, in living rooms, in garages unsecured)

Kicking in someones locked door tends to make everything in their house unsecure.


As well,

[quote author=Alberta Bound] Because once they are in our possession we are bound by statute, regulations, policies on how and when we can return them.
[/quote]
So basically what you're saying is that the RCMP entered peoples homes under the pretense of looking for people (okay)  and then took it upon themselves to remove firearms, which in many cases were legally stored under the countries firearms act, in order to keep them away from possible thieves and are citing regulations and policies when it comes to the lack of prompt return of citizens legal property.

 

[Lightguns]

Seems to me I can leave my non restricted firearm on a bed with  security device and the bolt out and I am quite legal.......unless some "1 ADAM 12" hero breaks down my locked door. Creating the need for a rescue does not make you a heroic rescuer. 

Am I dating myself with the Adam 12 ref?

 

[ballz]

This statement is indicative of the misinformation provided by the RCMP, to politicians and the public, since C-68 came into effect. It's a scare tactic to use on sheeple.

While the 'classifications system' has not changed, it contains sufficient wording enabling the RCMP to change the classification of firearms on a whim. They have done this numerous times, since then, with various firearms. Many had their classification changed from non restricted to restricted, and others from non restricted to prohibited, simply because they look military (box magazine and a pistol grip for example). The Firearms Act is full of guns that are restricted and prohibited simply because the RCMP and Allen Rock (Liberal) thought they looked 'scary'. Not because of any mechanical feature. Much of the initial classification by the liberals and RCMP was done by looking at pictures in gun books. If they didn't like the way it looked, it was classified as something other than non restricted.

The RCMP is making a big deal about 'sniper guns' cause that sounds scary. Make no mistake, they will eventually get your hunting rifle. Almost every seizure that is publicized, showing any scoped rifle, is often describing them as sniper rifles or military grade arms.

Even a scoped .22 Cooey squirrel gun.

It's a scare tactic being used by police forces throughout Canada and the States. A form of misinformation designed to create a problem for the uneducated, where none exists.

One recent example:

http://www.insidetoronto.com/news-story/4255920-man-charged-after-police-seize-military-style-weapons-from-scarborough-home/

"Police seized a Savage 30.06 rifle, a Remington Super X 3 semi-automatic 12-gauge shotgun and a .410-calibre single-shot shotgun during the execution of a search warrant at a home near Neilson and Sewells roads on Dec. 3.

“These are very high powerful military-style (weapons)  : that would do a lot of harm to a lot of people,” Yuen said. "

Wow, they managed to rack up 11 different firearms charges out of those three firearms...

"possessing a firearm/ammunition contrary to a prohibition" and then "possessing a firearm knowing its possession is unauthorized." How can that even exist? If you steal something do you also get charged with "theft, knowing that theft is illegal." That's just madness...

 

[The_Falcon]

Wow, they managed to rack up 11 different firearms charges out of those three firearms...

"possessing a firearm/ammunition contrary to a prohibition" and then "possessing a firearm knowing its possession is unauthorized." How can that even exist? If you steal something do you also get charged with "theft, knowing that theft is illegal." That's just madness...

I forget what the term is called, but it's very common for the police to charge for everything under the sun, since most likely the case will just be plea bargained down to 1 or 2 charges anyways. As for your theft example, there could be a charge for theft, and another one for possession of property obtained by crime  ;D

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Derailments removed.

Let's keep the thread topical and informative please.

---Staff---

 

[Jarnhamar]

I forget what the term is called, but it's very common for the police to charge for everything under the sun, since most likely the case will just be plea bargained down to 1 or 2 charges anyways. As for your theft example, there could be a charge for theft, and another one for possession of property obtained by crime  ;D

Shotgunning  ;D

 

[Lightguns]

Appears the Ontario QC is attempting to have the court rule that having a large number guns is abnormal and should be illegal. This link is a post from the NFA they are looking for folks with collections of gun to demonstrate to the court that it is nor abnormal to own guns.

https://www.facebook.com/NFACANADA/posts/566098060124961

Hope some of you can help.

 

[NavyShooter]

I have contributed already....

 

[Lightguns]

All provincial CFOs have had their phones forwarded to CFC in Miramichi today.  Appears that they have been de-funded by the gov't.  Details on the NFA site. 

 

[Fishbone Jones]

All provincial CFOs have had their phones forwarded to CFC in Miramichi today.  Appears that they have been de-funded by the gov't.  Details on the NFA site.

Please provide a link. I didn't find anything there.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Canada's long-gun registry is dead, but the National Firearms Association (NFA) warns some police may still be using data from it.

"If this is actually what's going on, that there's some sort of shadow registry out there that's being used for reference ... this is far away from the intent of Parliament," NFA President Sheldon Clare said Tuesday.

Clare says he's complained to the federal privacy and information commissioners, along with the Commission for Public Complaints Against the RCMP, about three instances when police may have used data that were ordered destroyed.

The best-known case, says Clare, is the RCMP's seizure of rifles and shotguns from flooded homes in High River, Alta., last summer.

He says recordings of RCMP radio transmissions indicate officers knew where to look for firearms and how many to expect before entering homes.

"It could be that this referred to restricted firearms or prohibited firearms, which are still registered, but that in our view is quite unlikely," said Clare.

Two other cases are from June 2012 in Ottawa, and June 2013 in Fredericton, but Clare says he doesn't have permission to release publicly any details.

A spokesman for Public Safety Minister Steven Blaney says an audit confirmed the registry data is gone ....

Toronto Sun, 4 Feb 14

More from the NFA here.

 

[Jarnhamar]

He says recordings of RCMP radio transmissions indicate officers knew where to look for firearms and how many to expect before entering homes.

I wonder if he means where to look as in which houses or where to look as in physically where in the house to look for the firearms.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I wonder if he means where to look as in which houses or where to look as in physically where in the house to look for the firearms.

It meant which houses to search.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Brutal.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Allcon,

I would like to express my regret and say I am sorry for my postings a while back.  I have seen the error of my ways.

This past NS deer season I hunted with a civilian fellow who was into "tactical sports" (I think that's what you call it).  During the evenings, after the last watch of the night, we discussed his passion. 

I have come to see there is no difference in a semi-auto hunting rifle or an AR just looks.  And I would like to express that I have fallen into the ranks who are against any further gun control. 

Recently I completed the restricted firearms course.  While I probably wont ever own a side arm or AR/AK/SCAR ect style weapon I do support those whose passions involve these tools. 

I also recently purchased a Norc M305 (M14 look alike) and have enjoyed immensely. 

Again my apologies and regrets please gentlemen and ladies, I hope will except them.

Yours,

HT

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Welcome to the moderately shaded side. We serve dark beer as well as cookies.

 

[NavyShooter]

Black beer.  With tactical rails.

http://www.battlemug.com/

Welcome to the dark side....

And in case you were unaware, here's a point that's to be discussed at the upcoming liberal congress/conference:

http://www.liberal.ca/151-guns-violence/

151. Fewer Guns, Less Violence

WHEREAS evidence demonstrates a clear relationship between the number of firearms in a society and the number of firearm-related homicides and suicides;

WHEREAS gun violence in our urban and suburban centres remains a significant threat to public safety;

WHEREAS incidents of firearm-related crimes, deaths and injuries decrease when access to firearms is combined with effective policies that keep firearms out of the hands of those who would use them to for such purposes;

WHEREAS the Australian Conservative government of John Howard successfully reduced the number of firearms in that country through proactive initiatives such as gun buybacks which led to decreases in the rates of firearm-related crimes, homicides and suicides;

BE IT RESOLVED that the primary objective of a Liberal government firearms policy shall be reducing the number of firearms in Canada through initiatives inspired by the Australian model.

Young Liberals of Canada

This is basically them laying down the gauntlet.  I will note that they make no differentiation between types nor classes of guns. 

The old tale is true...they don't care what type of gun you own....they are ALL bad or evil in their eyes...so thanks for coming to the dark-side.  Believe it or not, in their eyes, you were here all along.

NS

 

[NavyShooter]

Oh, and not trying to play post-count or anything, but if you need your M-305 tuned up or the gas cylinder shimmed, let me know. 

I *might* know a guy who knows a thing or two about them....

NS

 

[Jarnhamar]

Been reading a few articles online, sounds like the RCMP started kicking down doors and searching for weapons after the threat to life abated.

here's a good youtube video.
http://youtu.be/klUuagzHtLI
Includes emails from the CF saying there's no more danger to life, no need for evacuation, time to go home. Yet police still kept people out, police still kept searching homes.


Sounds like police were breaking into houses that were not damaged or in any danger.