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The brown Temperate Combat Boot (AKA: Mk IV Cbt Boot) - No longer CADPAT

  • Thread starter Thread starter petoth
  • Start date Start date
Meanwhile, in the British Army they seem to have finally got it right (after centuries of getting it wrong).

They went with an off the shelf design by Altberg - a British company - and reports are good from those I have talked to:
http://www.altberg.co.uk/category/military-boots/


The Ministry of Defence has signed a multi-million-pound contract for new boots for the Army, the Royal Navy and the Royal Air Force.

Armed Forces personnel will receive a new range of brown combat boots to replace the black and desert combat footwear they currently wear.

As part of a contract worth £80 million, troops will have the choice of wearing five different boots, depending on where they are based and what job they are doing. The five types available are:

•Desert Combat: worn by dismounted troops conducting high levels of activity in desert environments exceeding 40 °C
•Desert Patrol: worn by mounted troops, typically drivers or armoured troops conducting lower levels of activity in desert environments exceeding 40 °C
•Temperate combat: worn by dismounted troops for high levels of activity in temperate climates
•Patrol: worn by mounted troops, typically drivers or armoured troops conducting lower levels of activity in temperate climates
•Cold Wet Weather: worn by dismounted troops for high levels of activity in temperatures down to –20 °C.

Each of the five boot types comes in two different styles, so personnel can wear whichever one is more comfortable for them.

Warrant Officer Julie Lodge models the new boots for female personnel. Different foot shapes of men and women

The improved brown boots, which have been developed to match the Multi Terrain Pattern uniform worn by all service personnel, will be made in two different width fittings, taking into account for the first time the different foot shapes of men and women.

The new boots have been chosen after months of trials involving 2000 troops serving across the world in Kenya, Cyprus, Canada and the UK. The brown boots will be rolled out to personnel in all three services later this year.

Minister for Defence Equipment, Support and Technology Peter Luff said:

"This contract will provide our troops with the high-quality footwear they need whilst on operations and back in the UK. Our Armed Forces will have more choice than ever before to make sure they are as comfortable as possible, whatever their role."

Warrant Officer Class One Julie Lodge from the Ministry of Defence's Defence Clothing team said:
 
"The boots we have now do the job well, but having footwear that is specially designed for female troops means we get an even better result, and marks a real development in the kit available to us. The new boots are very comfortable and fit so well I feel like I could run a marathon in them.
 
"We have had excellent feedback on the new boots from both male and female soldiers and we are buying a variety of styles to cover the full range of conditions we might encounter on operations, which means all our troops will have new boots for all seasons."
 
The right boot for the right job

WO1 Regimental Sergeant Major Ian Wright of the Parachute Regiment took part in the trials and said:

"The choice offered to us with this new range of boots is fantastic as it means troops can find the right boot for the right job.

"It is important that we continue to feel comfortable in the boots that we wear and reassured that they are going to provide the right protection - and these new brown boots offer that.

"They performed well on the trials and I am sure our soldiers will be delighted with them."

Black boots will continue to be worn with most non-camouflage uniforms and by units on parade in full dress uniform, such as Guards regiments on ceremonial duties in central London.

http://www.army.mod.uk/news/24306.aspx
 
Which brings us to the question: Why doesnt Danner supply the CF with boots?
 
PrairieThunder said:
Which brings us to the question: Why doesnt Danner supply the CF with boots?

Because this is Canada and not Britain.

Danners are Made in the USA footwear; here in Canada, it's all about politics (by law we have to "buy Canadian") ... thus the always-QC contracts for useless footwear.

Being that contractors are also well aware of this little factoid they have very little incentive, nor inclination, to improve their products.

And, contrary to popular belief, troops march on their feet, not their stomachs.  Feet problems lead to knee problems, which lead to hip problems, which lead to back problems ... and we wonder why our troops disintegrate.  Simple: Shitty footwear forever plus a day now.

Attempting to get a boot allowance so that troops can buy a style and type that works for them has already been tried too to no avail for same reason as above (job protection).  PS:  Even your beloved Danners don't work for everyone.  We need choice and a variety of styles and that is the only thing that will ever fix this problem.

The current CAF situation with lack boots is embarrassing; when we have no boots to issue to troops, but can expend resources on other pet projects (not necessarily CAF directed projects  ;)) something is indeed seriously wrong.
 
I'm not a ninja at reading MREX (or I guess its called Buy and Sell now?), but it looks like 3 contracts were awarded for LOTB trials, 2 to Kodiak and 1 to L.P. Royer (never heard of them). I sense another failure at user acceptance, although I've worn civilian Kodiak winter boots, and they were pretty good.

https://buyandsell.gc.ca/procurement-data/award-notice/PW-PR-751-62564-1
https://buyandsell.gc.ca/procurement-data/award-notice/PW-PR-751-62564-0
https://buyandsell.gc.ca/procurement-data/award-notice/PW-PR-751-62564

Edit: Link is a little messed up, had to do individual links.
 
From what I understood at the clothing store counter, the boots that were ripping and cancelling themselves out were quarantined boots that the supply system was handing out because it had nothing else to issue.

I have two pairs of these boots, combat, arid regions and so far after a month of forced marches and combat patrols they have only been scuffed.  The stitching behind the heel is holding up fine too.  I know, I'm finding it hard to believe myself.  The date on the tag is the manufacturing date or the contract date?
 
...at the very least, the tech spec should require quadruple stitching...one of my pairs of Mk 3's is over 25 years old...two re-soles later and the stitching is still like new.  Is Grebb still in business?
 
So we spend over $500 000 in a frigging stealth snowmobile so we can ride on snow "quietly", but we can't have boots to walk from A to B. I currently hang my head in a small amount of shame.
 
I was on a waiting list to get issued the Brown Boots, a few weeks ago I was told all issue of them had ceased, is this no longer the case?
 
The Valcartier clothing store is only issuing brown boots; unless they still have your size in black.
 
The US has also 'gone commercial':

This use of a commercial boot design is nothing new. Over the last decade the army and marines have changed their attitudes towards combat boots. Instead of trying to design boots themselves, the military has recognized the superior design of commercial boots created for hikers, mountain climbers, and outdoor activists in general. This has resulted in a new generation of combat boots that are more durable, and comfortable, than earlier generations of combat footwear. http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htinf/articles/20130624.aspx
 
markppcli said:
I was on a waiting list to get issued the Brown Boots, a few weeks ago I was told all issue of them had ceased, is this no longer the case?

Correct: because they are crap and they are all falling apart, all the new brown combat boots have thus have all been quarantined.  However, some are being issued out of quarantine to new pers or others without any boots to wear etc because there are simply no other boots to issue them with.
 
Mr. St-Cyr said:
The Valcartier clothing store is only issuing brown boots; unless they still have your size in black.

But note that the brown boots were just contracted in to replace the black boots. Note how they give you black boots first if they still have your size.  See my last post.  The new brown boots suck and are all quarantined --- they are issued as a last resort.
 
Good2Golf said:
...at the very least, the tech spec should require quadruple stitching...one of my pairs of Mk 3's is over 25 years old...two re-soles later and the stitching is still like new.  Is Grebb still in business?

I still wear MkIIIs as well; have never had a single issue with them.  Mine are on their first re-sole.
 
Cheers, thanks for that. I'm in a situation where my orthopedics don't GP boots... thus I am a special snowflake just like my mommy always said, and am waiting to see how they want to handle my reissue of boots. I know other options where trialed and I'm curious if they'll fall back to one of the those boots.
 
markppcli said:
Cheers, thanks for that. I'm in a situation where my orthopedics don't GP boots... thus I am a special snowflake just like my mommy always said, and am waiting to see how they want to handle my reissue of boots. I know other options where trialed and I'm curious if they'll fall back to one of the those boots.

If you are in Edmonton, request that clothing stores contact the SM to request permission to try you in the desert boot instead (which also seem to be holding up to the stress of wear).  We were just approved to do that at this location for pers requiring boots.

Hopefully, they can accomodate your orthos.  If not, the CFSM still contains apporopriate reference stating that the supply system is required to provide you with footwear that fit and accomodate. Currently they are forecasting at least 1 year until the contract is back in place for getting you custom footwear made by the system so that is not a viable COA to get you boots either.  If desert boots won't do it, then work with your supervisor through your CoC on a memo insisting that clothing stores purchases you footwear that does.  If you require the ref and can't access, fire me a pm and I will get it to you ... fack -- I'll write your damn memo for you.
 
So if this replaced the Interim Combat Boot, than what is the new Land Ops Boot I am hearing about?
 
Infanteer said:
So if this replaced the Interim Combat Boot, than what is the new Land Ops Boot I am hearing about?

LOTB is just a continuation of the Temperate Combat Boot, which has consistently failed trials for years. The brown boots in the system are supposed to be quarantined AFAIK as they're terrible quality and fall apart quickly but since there's rapidly shrinking quantities of GP boots, they're being issued someplaces. Kingston is trying to have pers waiting on custom boots sized in the new desert boots because PWGSC is sitting on their hands for the SOA to have the custom boots made.
 
markppcli said:
Cheers, thanks for that. I'm in a situation where my orthopedics don't GP boots... thus I am a special snowflake just like my mommy always said, and am waiting to see how they want to handle my reissue of boots. I know other options where trialed and I'm curious if they'll fall back to one of the those boots.

ArmyVern said:
Hopefully, they can accomodate your orthos.  If not, the CFSM still contains apporopriate reference stating that the supply system is required to provide you with footwear that fit and accomodate. Currently they are forecasting at least 1 year until the contract is back in place for getting you custom footwear made by the system so that is not a viable COA to get you boots either.  If desert boots won't do it, then work with your supervisor through your CoC on a memo insisting that clothing stores purchases you footwear that does.  If you require the ref and can't access, fire me a pm and I will get it to you ... fack -- I'll write your damn memo for you.


To add in on AV's post

Edmonton has a plan in place for members that require special sizing as we are approaching critical mass.  Make sure you have identified yourself to clothing as needing it (if you haven't already).  I am not in clothing but was participating in the discussion this pm about the work around.  It won't be fast but hopefully we can get you into proper boots.
 
The boots on the left is the current hot weather combat boot.  It is smooth leather body with canvas tongue and canvas sides from the ankle up. 
The pair of boots on the right is the current temperate weather combat boot.  It is suede or nubuck thourout.

Oddly enough, the boot on the left is coloured much like chocolate Easter bunnies and has a significant amount of contrast with the arid uniform with which it should usually be paired, but it works really well with the temperate uniform.  The boot on the right is a little lighter and works well with both temperate and arid combat uniforms.

If the Army is still looking at one colour of boot for both uniforms, hopefully there is a lesson learned on how dark is too dark.
 
ArmyVern said:
Because this is Canada and not Britain.

Danners are Made in the USA footwear; here in Canada, it's all about politics (by law we have to "buy Canadian") ... thus the always-QC contracts for useless footwear.

Being that contractors are also well aware of this little factoid they have very little incentive, nor inclination, to improve their products.

And, contrary to popular belief, troops march on their feet, not their stomachs.  Feet problems lead to knee problems, which lead to hip problems, which lead to back problems ... and we wonder why our troops disintegrate.  Simple: Shitty footwear forever plus a day now.

Attempting to get a boot allowance so that troops can buy a style and type that works for them has already been tried too to no avail for same reason as above (job protection).  PS:  Even your beloved Danners don't work for everyone.  We need choice and a variety of styles and that is the only thing that will ever fix this problem.

The current CAF situation with lack boots is embarrassing; when we have no boots to issue to troops, but can expend resources on other pet projects (not necessarily CAF directed projects  ;)) something is indeed seriously wrong.

Honestly, I was on the beer and do not even remember posting that statement.

I will agree with the overall message:

WE NEED SOME FRIGGIN BOOTS. FRIGGIN BOOTS THAT WORK!
 
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