The brown Temperate Combat Boot (AKA: Mk IV Cbt Boot) - No longer CADPAT

[63 Delta]

Every year my wife gets to claim $150 for bras.

If she can claim bras, I should be able to claim boot. As no two breasts are a like, no two feet are a like, and these Double D feet of mine dont fit well in the army issued boots

 

[dale622]

I as well don't mind forking over a few of my dollars to be comfortable. I just hope they don't make their own shade of brown. Would make it really hard to find matching boots. I understand Canadian business always has to have a percentage of our procurement but come on! Making something completely different from everything else just seems like and idiotic idea. Big companies like Danner would take a long time if ever to make a set of boots in our "new" brown.

 

[Mr. St-Cyr]

I need a new pair... been looking at the Blackhawk Warrior.  Can't decide whether I need black or coyote brown.  All signs are pointing to black!

 

[dale622]

So... I'm hearing grumblings of soldiers having no option but to buy boots. The QM was out of black, (crappy) brown, and tan as well. If this is the case, should they not be reimbursed? This footwear problem appears the be getting as bad as the shortfall on combats. If they are going to run out of sizes completely and have to pay troops to get boots anyways. They should just start a boot chit program. Just my 2 cents.

 

[MJP]

So... I'm hearing grumblings of soldiers having no option but to buy boots. The QM was out of black, (crappy) brown, and tan as well. If this is the case, should they not be reimbursed? This footwear problem appears the be getting as bad as the shortfall on combats. If they are going to run out of sizes completely and have to pay troops to get boots anyways. They should just start a boot chit program. Just my 2 cents.

I see you are 1CER so I will assume you are in Edmonton.  You are right clothing is very short on certain sizes of boots due to unforecasted demands by the TF2-13 folks eating into normal levels of supply.  I was in DRMIS today looking at things and there are boots coming, it just takes time to get them in. 

Unfortunately there is no mechanism to reimburse for boots a la boot allowance, however there is a mechanism to LPO or rush deliver if someone absolutely needs boots now due to all of theirs being FUBAR.  IF this is the case then they need to identify that fact to Clothing and BPT show the level of deterioration to get the ball rolling.


edited to fixed bad copy paste skills

 

[dale622]

I'll send the troops that direction. Have seen some pretty haggard footwear.

 

[Ostrozac]

due to unforecasted demands by the TF2-13 folks eating into normal levels of supply. 

I wouldn't call the Kabul training mission unforecasted. We've known about it for years. The Libya war, the First Gulf War, DART missions, lots of deployments have been unforecasted. But not TF2-13.

 

[REDinstaller]

The mission isn't unforcasted, but the demands on the supply system by the pers that are deploying on it weren't forecasted. There are also 3 PTAs that are undergoing training at Ex Maple Resolve that are taxing the system as well

 

[MJP]

The mission isn't unforcasted, but the demands on the supply system by the pers that are deploying on it weren't forecasted. There are also 3 PTAs that are undergoing training at Ex Maple Resolve that are taxing the system as well

Ex MR has limited impact on Clothing stores in Edmonton or the system writ large.  The unforecasted demand was the fact that folks in some cases came lacking basic issues of footwear or waited till they came to exchange their old stuff.  Generally that doesn't happen but for a host of reasons it has.  Clothing is restocking as fast as the system can get the stuff there.

 

[REDinstaller]

I beg to differ about that, as 2 of the PTAs are sub C/S of my Regt and a huge portion of the Bde Sigs Sqn. So yes Edmonton Clothing is impacted as Svc Bn would issue kit to these soldiers, some of whom have been on constant exercise since Jan 13.

 

[MJP]

I beg to differ about that, as 2 of the PTAs are sub C/S of my Regt and a huge portion of the Bde Sigs Sqn. So yes Edmonton Clothing is impacted as Svc Bn would issue kit to these soldiers, some of whom have been on constant exercise since Jan 13.

You can beg to differ all you want.  Your context into the matter is limited to your domain and I understand where you are coming from.  I am telling you from 1st hand knowledge that there is limited impact from Ex PR or MR.  You can take it for what it's worth or you can PM me and and I can give you some more info.  I don't wish to interrupt the main thread with this sidebar.  I merely came on to help out Bananaman wrt his troops and to clarify to some extent what the hold up is/was.

 

[dale622]

Which I do thank you for MJP. Troops have been notified and direction given.

 

[DirtyDog]

Can you imagine the impact on the system if all those who wear personally purchased non-issued boots (and it's a lot where I come from) decided, or were forced to, actually rely on issued boots through the system?

What a joke.  It kills me how us low on the totem pole are held accountable and face serious questions when we fail to perform, yet these bozos who deal with kit and equipment seem to sh1t the bed on a near constant basis....

 

[Halifax Tar]

Can you imagine the impact on the system if all those who wear personally purchased non-issued boots (and it's a lot where I come from) decided, or were forced to, actually rely on issued boots through the system?

What a joke.  It kills me how us low on the totem pole are held accountable and face serious questions when we fail to perform, yet these bozos who deal with kit and equipment seem to sh1t the bed on a near constant basis....

Solid point my friend!

 

[OldSolduer]

Can you imagine the impact on the system if all those who wear personally purchased non-issued boots (and it's a lot where I come from) decided, or were forced to, actually rely on issued boots through the system?

What a joke.  It kills me how us low on the totem pole are held accountable and face serious questions when we fail to perform, yet these bozos who deal with kit and equipment seem to sh1t the bed on a near constant basis....

It's not totally the fault of DND for our procurement/kit issues. Yes there are some fingers that could be pointed, but that is counter productive right now.

Consider this: DND has been mandated to purchase kit that Canadian companies can manufacture, like boots. If there is a Canadian company that can make boots to our specs, then that Canadian company will be contracted, within reason of course.
If there are any procurement experts, please weigh in, and if I am wrong, correct me please.

 

[DirtyDog]

It's not totally the fault of DND for our procurement/kit issues. Yes there are some fingers that could be pointed, but that is counter productive right now.

Consider this: DND has been mandated to purchase kit that Canadian companies can manufacture, like boots. If there is a Canadian company that can make boots to our specs, then that Canadian company will be contracted, within reason of course.
If there are any procurement experts, please weigh in, and if I am wrong, correct me please.

By all means, I wasn't excluding bureaucrats from blame. 

I don't  know who specifically, or which departments/organizations exactly, are to blame for our many kit woes.  But somebody IS to blame.

What you call finger pointing, I call being held accountable.  The levels of organizational dysfunction are disgusting and people need to start being shown the door, and/or kicked in the d1ck.  No excuses.

Again, I apologise for my cynicism but it's sad to see what we accept as a standard.

 

[Teager]

I think there should be just a boot allowance instead of issued boots. Members can only claim a certain amount and if the boots you want cost more then you can pay the extra. Obviously one type of boot made for everyone doesn't work and probably never will. If you go to a physio therapist near a base the amount of CF members that are there for back, knee, or foot issues is pretty staggering. This usually comes from improper foot wear and is costing large amounts of money. (I know this as I have spent a few years in physio and have spent numerous conversations with numerous physio therapists that have said the foot wear is the main problem.)

IMO if the boots issued are going to cause you pain or problems down the road its just not worth it to wear them. The people with non issued boots seem to be happy and aren't having any health related issues. Perhaps this should be looked at further.  :2c:

 

[OldSolduer]

Maybe you two can convince Treasury Board, oh and all the Canadian companies that make  boots and could benefit from a DND contract.

Good luck with that. I think a boot allowance, in an ideal world, is the way to go.

We don't live in an ideal world.

 

[buzgo]

Part of the problem is that the statement of requirement for a given item of kit is written in a way that constrains industry. For example the LOTB SOR goes into details about boot construction, sole attachment, height, heel counters etc. This means that DLR wrote an SOR that is so restrictive that the boot manufacturers (Terra, Danner, Kodiak, etc) can't do what they do best - make boots - if they want to win.

When SORs are written in a way to specify WHAT an item will be like instead of specifying the capability required, you end up with a crappy brown boot.

So, ultimately the Army gets exactly what they ask for, and it is taking them a few tries to understand that they need to ask for a boot capability, not a specific boot.

 

[Teager]

Maybe you two can convince Treasury Board, oh and all the Canadian companies that make  boots and could benefit from a DND contract.

Good luck with that. I think a boot allowance, in an ideal world, is the way to go.

We don't live in an ideal world.

Yes, Jim we don't live in an ideal world. Since being injured there have been a lot of changes that have come and changed the military for the better that have been pushed upon the CF. If no one did any pushing or bring about ideas into the "ideal world" we would never have any changes. In a way I almost believe through your comment your bringing about motivation to myself to act upon this and maybe bring about change. The word maybe being used strongly as it can go either way. I beleive through your postion you are stuck at enforcing what the CF says even though you have your opinions and are entitlted to them and for the most part agree.

Boot companies will still be at an advantage regardless of a DND contract. If there is a boot allowance it allows members to choose boots from any company. I'm sure multiple companies will benefit from this and heck it might even cause companies to improve upon there own current footwear which benefits everyone.

IMO it takes DND time and lots of it to take on change but eventually it can happen with the right amount of push and if there is a majority pushing. Also if it benefits the soldier and saves DND $ in the long run theres nothing but good to come of it.