The brown Temperate Combat Boot (AKA: Mk IV Cbt Boot) - No longer CADPAT

[armyvern]

Gotcha.  So, instead of doing what is possible within the constraints placed upon the CF, we should throw our collective teddy-bear to the corner and hold-out for what has been denied.  Recognizing there are already accomodations in place for custome sizes & to meet medical requirements, if we could provide 2-3 different styles of boot to pick from in the supply system, I think we will have landed on the mark.  The troops & thier health can be looked after this way.  ... and you will note that I am not advocating the current way.  I am advocating a mechanism of choise within our constraints.

I'm not tracking your argument of effeciency.  Should we just abolish the whole existance of base clothing because supply chains costs money?

Got me!!?? You're starting to sound like my 15 year old.

Go back through all my posts again fine Sir; there'll you'll find other posts (and even some of the same quotes you've used "without" my "from day 1 stance of boot allowance" that I've said:

1) WHY we have the tac vest;
2) That boots are political; and
3) WHY don't we have a boot allowance EVEN if it's political.

My outlook has never changed. You've got me on SFA. At one point in time, Treasurey Board denied us many things ... your impetus for me to now, in 2010, curl up into a corner and NOT to advocate for "the right thing for the troops" certainly isn't going to change that.

Now, instead of throwing "the collective teddy bear of millions of dollars in trials and O&M, delivery costs" ad naseum simply because "it's political" ... let's not; let's do the right thing. POLITICS is costing us millions that would be MUCH better spent elsewhere.

Sure, let's abolish supply if that's what you want. Apparently, you may not actually realize that boots take up MOST of the shelving in warehouses, depots and clothing stores of all personal kit allotment items. Go ahead and take a walk through clothing sometime and check it out for yourself. Cehck out anyone's basement too to understand the sheer volumes of pairs of useless footwear they have issued ... for what?? Because "politics" says so? Nor have you stood at the counter scrapping slightly-worn boots because they didn't work for someone, or had to help a soldier out trying on "stocked" boots whose feet were trashed because they are obviously one of the 20%. 

Once you get rid of me, you can rid of the truckers too; then the tfc techs ... and so on.  :

 

[McG]

Got me!!?? You're starting to sound like my 15 year old.

No.  Gotcha as in - I'm trakin'

Go back through all my posts again fine Sir; there'll you'll find other posts (and even some of the same quotes you've used "without" my "from day 1 stance of boot allowance" that I've said:

1) WHY we have the tac vest;
2) That boots are political; and
3) WHY we don't have a boot allowance EVEN if is because it's political.

One correction and...
I know you've posted all this.  I know you have always argued there should be a boot allowance.  That doesn't explain why you won't acknowledge the best that can be done within the CF's given constraints.

The CF has made a lot of progress in backroom political battles over the recent years.  When we can meet our needs (choice of boots) within our constraints (political/bureaucratic opposition to uniform allowances), then I think we should be staking our claim on more important battles than boots ( like Leopard 2, C-17, M777, load carriage, etc).

Sure, let's abolish supply if that's what you want.

It is not what I want; rather, it seems to be the path you are proposing.  You want to do away with supply chain costs associated to boots.  If that argument is sound, then would it not apply to all the other items of individual operational clothing?

 

[Fishbone Jones]

How about you guys take a breather.

Milnet.ca Staff

 

[aesop081]

if we could provide 2-3 different styles of boot to pick from in the supply system, I think we will have landed on the mark.

The result of that will be 2-3 styles of boots nobody wants and that work for nobody.

Vern as to why boots are a political issue and not the bra :

How many bra manufacturer are located in Quebec ?

 

[Infanteer]

Brown, or tan?

Brown or tan suppliers?

Doesn't really matter - after a month of use all the boots are the same dirty colour; the darker brown issued tan boots quickly fade and look the same as any other Desert boot.

 

[Loachman]

It will certainly matter in garrison, and that's where most of these boots will be worn most of the time.

 

[OldSolduer]

It will certainly matter in garrison, and that's where most of these boots will be worn most of the time.

How true.

 

[Infanteer]

It will certainly matter in garrison, and that's where most of these boots will be worn most of the time.

What I'm saying is that dark brown colour seems to fade after time - field use only speeds this up.  The Danner boots I have are dark brown like our issued boots as the Marines also go for a dark boot.  The Meindls are a more conventional tan.  They all look the same now.

 

[Loachman]

That may or may not cut it for some sergeants-major in non-operational establishments.

Perhaps there will be something like the current black boot treatment that will keep the colour to a suitable standard, and perhaps darken tan boots enough to match.

 

[REDinstaller]

Just as long as I don't have to buy Brown KIWI, might as just well wear Corcoran Jump Boots ( Hideous Looking is Sz 14). I don't know how any of this will pan out when it comes to purchasing???

 

[Matt_Fisher]

That may or may not cut it for some sergeants-major in non-operational establishments.

Perhaps there will be something like the current black boot treatment that will keep the colour to a suitable standard, and perhaps darken tan boots enough to match.

Most mink oil/dubbin type boot dressings will significantly darken tan suede/rough out type leather.  Whether they will make the tan boot look like the pinkish brown 'DND Maxi Brown' boot is another question though.

Of the desert boot versions of the 'DND Maxi Brown' boots that have been worn for some time, they end up covered in dust and have dirt ingrained into them they do end up looking like any other desert boot though.  The leather is a no-polish/no-dressing type nubuck leather which is an RSM's worst nightmare in terms of presenting a neat, military type appearance.  The CFs will also find that they will be spending a fortune in boot replacement costs as this type leather will dry rot and crack rendering the boots unserviceable at a rate far greater than the current wear-out of black full grain leather boots.

 

[Matt_Fisher]

Photo of the latest version of the Temperate Combat Boot is on the Clothe The Soldier Project website:  http://www.forces.gc.ca/aete/temperatecombatboot-bottepourclimattempere-eng.asp

Looks to be that they've decided to go with a brown boot which uses full grain leather, a Cordura upper, and a Goodyear welted Vibram outsole.  Full grain leather is a good decision in my opinion, as it can be better maintained than a suede/rough out sided leather, and will offer much better water resistance.

 

[OldSolduer]

As long as we don't get those horrible looking CADPAT boots that were trialled and now banned.....what next, CADPAT socks and underwear? ;D

Anyone know when these will be issued?

 

[PMedMoe]

As long as the sizes aren't anything remotely like the CWW boot.  :

 

[211RadOp]

According to the schedule, they were supposed to be fielded in Mar 11.  I haven't seen a pair yet, but I haven't been to Fort Fumble on the Rideau in a while.

 

[OldSolduer]

According to the schedule, they were supposed to be fielded in Mar 11.  I haven't seen a pair yet, but I haven't been to Fort Fumble on the Rideau in a while.

And who knows what priority they'll be issued......

 

[Matt_Fisher]

According to the schedule, they were supposed to be fielded in Mar 11.  I haven't seen a pair yet, but I haven't been to Fort Fumble on the Rideau in a while.

I talked with a footwear manufacturer back in December that will be bidding on the contract when it comes out.  DND is about a year behind schedule with this program.  It'll probably go out for tender sometime between now and September, with the contract being awarded in October.  First fielding will likely happen sometime next spring.  Will be interesting to see how long it takes before the Army replaces the black WWB with a corresponding brown version to standardize boot appearances for wear with CADPAT TW combats.  Will also be interesting to see what sort of guidance is given for the local purchase of safety boots, i.e. whether black will still be an acceptable colour, and the medical 'boot chit' program and whether black or brown locally purchased boots will be acceptable.

 

[OldSolduer]

So, Matt, is that once again we'll be having "discussions" on troops and boots in a years time..... ;D

 

[dimsum]

I can't remember if this was brought up or answered before, but since this is going to be the flying boot as well, wouldn't having synthetic uppers that melt quickly be a bad thing on an airplane?  (Same argument would probably apply to LAVs/tanks)

 

[REDinstaller]

Skin will melt much more quickly than the synthetic uppers on boots. Clothing for Armoured Crews is designed to give the crew a chance to escape the fire before becoming engulfed in flame. That is why when we roll out the door its with sleeves down, gloves on and as much skin as possible covered. Fire is every tankers worst nightmare.