The 911 Conspiracy Theory thread

[MAJOR_Baker]

Yesterday, I read an article in the Wall Street Journal that stated 20% of Germans believe that the POTUS ordered the attacks on the World Trade Center, Pentagon, and the Airplane crash in Pennsylvania....also that jewish employees stayed away from the bldg that day. The German author stated that he "believed" that there were no aircraft involved in the attacks and that the buildings collapsed because of charges set in the building to bring it down. He also stated, he "believed the CIA" had hatched the whole plot.

I was wondering if most Canadian military personnel (at least the ones on this site) believe that the CIA and the white house orchestrated the Sep 11 Attacks?

My next question is. Do you believe the attacks on the US Embassies, USS Cole, first attack on the World Trade Center, etc were orchestrated by the Clinton White House and the CIA?

Please, serious discussion only, if I wanted nasty personal attacks I would go to the CBC websites. Remember, you are either with us or against us

 

[Armymedic]

While I totally disagree with the war on Iraq as staged...

I am with you 100% on the war on terrorism.

I can‘t believe that the POTUS could have ordered suck things... He isn‘t that bold, greedy or mad to intentionally cause the deaths of what 4000 US citizens.

And Isma Bin Laden was all made up to right...
I‘ve heard his name back to 97/98 and AL-Quida mentioned back earlier then that. So if its something a citizen of the US planned it was in the works long before Bush took office.

I believe though, for max effect, IBL could not have had a better administration to screw with.

Whats your feel about the Anthrax attacks that happened in Sept/Oct 01........

 

[Stakhanov]

I am not really sure what to believe, honestly. It seems pretty strange to me that the buildings fell straight down, so having planes crash into the sides of them, twice, and not have them fall on their sides....weird. I have talked to people who demolish buildings, and seen TV shows on it, it is a very precise science, and friggen hard to make a building fall down that accurately. Also Bush and Cheny released a doctrine (prior to 9/11) stating that they wanted all world governments to have a large US influence, and to do this they would have to launch a large military operation. In order to launch this military op, they said, there would have to be an attack on the US comparable to Pearl Harbour. Bush himslef has compared Sept. 11th to Pearl Harbour...I‘m not saying that I 100% think that he oredered them, but I do think it is a little fishey, especially since Osama has been funded over $3 Billion by the USA, why would he want to cut off his funding? Also, sith new information coming out it has become pretty apparent, that the USA invented the Gulf of Tonkin incident that was the thing that really set off the vietnam war (just look around on the net, has been on the news too) Which really makes you wonder, if they could do it then, why not now?

Just something to think about, not in it for any personal insults either, just stating some observations.

 

[Danno]

"Don‘t believe anything you hear and only believe half of what you see."

Buildings don‘t implode when they are struck by aircraft.

First look at this video (a wmv file, playable in Windows Media Player) of a controlled demolition, and observe the "demolition squibs", clouds of debris ejected horizontally by explosions placed at several levels in the building to be demolished.
wmv file

Now look at this video of the North Tower collapsing. Two demolition squibs can be seen clearly before the collapse descends beneath the viewframe.
video of north tower


What happened to building WTC#7?
Look here


Who gained form this incident?

 

[nbk]

I think the entire event worked out a little to well for the bush administration and a little too bad for the "terrorists" who were supposedly behind it.

It gave the Bush administration scapegoats for everything they were planning such as an enevitable recession (blame it on terrorists instead of bush‘s economic plans) the invasion and colonization of the middle east, the bringing together of the American people who were divided (remember the last federal election) and it gave untold amounts of revenue to the elites of the bush administration (Cheney and his rebuilding Iraq contracts, etc etc).

It also allows the bush administration to institute more "big brother" policies without being questioned.

Look at Osama bin Laden...a trained CIA associate, who turns against the USA? It is quite possible that he is the head of a terrorist organization, however he himself answers to the US government, like so many other terrorists and dictatiors have in the past.

I think I have brought it up on this board before but do a websearch on "Operation Northwoods". This was a government plan in the 1950s or 60s for the CIA to attack american cities, and blame them on Castro in order to start a war with Cuba...

Congress may have shot the idea down then, but what is stopping bush from penning an executive order, which supercedes congress?

 

[gaffer]

You have to remember two things before you espouse the latest conspiracy theory. First, the age of the building. It was an old building and built differently than modern highrises and houses. The frame was on the inside and the outside was simply windows. When the internal frame was destroyed there was a good chance that the facade only held the building together long enough to collapse straight down. Secondly, no one has ever collapsed such a tall structure before. Any idea as to how it would collapse is only theory until it has been tested on a computer or in the world. And a computer program is only as accurate as it‘s code. All this aside, I think Occam‘s theory would apply here: the simplest theory is probably right. I don‘t think the US could have destroyed the Twin Towers without major leaks. The president can‘t even get a little nookie on the side without everyone knowing about it.

 

[Gunnar]

My next question is. Do you believe the attacks on the US Embassies, USS Cole, first attack on the World Trade Center, etc were orchestrated by the Clinton White House and the CIA?

Nope, it was Martians.

Seriously, when I hear these (usually) racist conspiracy theories, I just have to shake my head. You can‘t argue with them, because any news story is "slanted", any fact is "biased". It seems reasonable to these kinds of people that the President would kill millions just to get some sort of political prize. Well guys, maybe in YOUR country...

And this message is far longer than the time I usually give to them. :sniper:

 

[muskrat89]

The only conspiracy theory that I ever found remotely interesting, besides the JFK assasination, is the one connected with Flight 800. There is some odd stuff going on there.

Flight 800

 

[radop211tc]

I‘m for the War on Terrorism.
But to say, you are with us or against us, is rather childish, given the fact, that no one has proven squat and in all likelihood was trumped up.

It is coming out in the news more and more, about the Defactors. Not to be racist‘s in anyway but some of the best Salesmen in the world come from around the MiddleEast, I have experienced their tactics, firsthand. Now if you want to defact from a waistland, are you not going to come up with the best story, known to mankind.

Let‘s look at it another way, I won‘t let you drink & drive, so I am no longer your friend because I interropted a good drinking and driving excursion?

Canada with its small military has been contributing to the War on Terrorism, to the point, that some whom over the years have gotten tired of being overworked and have taken releases. So in Experience, we have endured casualities of a differnt nature.

Our fighting capability is rather small, and I am sure, there are many that feel we can contribute more. My answer, you look at the numbers and tell us where, we can suck the blood out of more soldiers.

Tc...
VVV

 

[Mike Bobbitt]

Call me gullible, but I believe that events played out on 9/11 exactly as we have been told. Sure, Bush et al got a lot of support to go after terrorism as a result, but it seems obvious that killing ~4,000 civilians was not required. (How much material justification was required for the recent Iraq incursion?)

Surely it would be cheaper and easier to knit up some nasty intelligence reports. And if no terrorist organization actually perpetrated 9/11, then why go after them? As a lead up to Iraq? Remember, Bush went in with the primary purpose of clearing out weapons of mass destruction, so if that was valid now, it should have been valid pre 9/11.

Logistically, dropping the WTC would be a nightmare, trying to get all the right people with the right gear in the right places at the right time. And security would have to be absolute, one loose end or hesitation and the US Gov‘t is finished. (Or what *that* the real aim here...? )

Sorry, I just don‘t buy it. I also believe that Neil Armstrong walked on the moon, but then, I‘m a sucker.

 

[Jason Jarvis]

I‘m with Mike. I‘m convinced that the only truthful conspiracy theories such as these are those perpetrated by the guys who start them in the first place: "Oh yeah, I get laid all the time."

Pinning this one on Bush, the CIA or even the military is a total waste of time. You know what? Sometimes sh*t happens. And in this case, the bad guys scored first. The good guys have taken a few back, but the game‘s not over. Let‘s hope it doesn‘t go to overtime.

While I would agree that the shock factor of 9/11 can be compared to the attack on Pearl Harbour, saying Bush "did it" is like saying Roosevelt let the Japanese attack Pearl Harbour just to get the US into the war. Or Wilson let the Lusitania get sunk because he knew it was carrying weapons. Or....

 

[Armymedic]

I read the article Danno provided...

Interesting....

I was in Bosnia until 22 Sept and missed most of the spin on the events....

One part I do find interesting in the article though is the impact at the Pentagon,
A Boeing 757 is huge, so where are the parts and wht is the hole so small?

Look at the Air India bombing on land and Swiss air crash into water, there were huge pieces all over the place for both, but none seen in the photos of the Pentagon, and I do not recall seeing plane parts in the pictures in the papers 2 yrs ago either.

It raises enough questions on one part of the story to make you think about the rest....

During the Cold War yrs both the CIA an the KGB raised modern day terrorists all over the world. Now its politically wrong to support these people finacially, so there is no doubt in my mind these organisations hate thier former backers....

Lets name a few from the US:
Saddam Hussien vs Iran,
Iran post the Sha,
Mujahedeen (read Taliban) in Afghanistan vs USSR,
and various movements in Central and South America.

Maybe when I am real old we will find out the truth.

 

[nbk]

Call me gullible, but I believe that events played out on 9/11 exactly as we have been told. Sure, Bush et al got a lot of support to go after terrorism as a result, but it seems obvious that killing ~4,000 civilians was not required. (How much material justification was required for the recent Iraq incursion?)

Not nearly as much as would have been required if 9/11 did not happen. All george bush had to do is tell the american people that Iraq was full of Muslims and they were crying out for blood. Its sad but it is true. The beauty of 9/11 is that they can‘t associate the event with a perticular country, so in the american mindset all Arabs are enemies.

Surely it would be cheaper and easier to knit up some nasty intelligence reports. And if no terrorist organization actually perpetrated 9/11, then why go after them? As a lead up to Iraq? Remember, Bush went in with the primary purpose of clearing out weapons of mass destruction, so if that was valid now, it should have been valid pre 9/11.

The "Shock and Awe" aspect of 9/11 is what worked to unite the americans behind george bush. And I do not use that term to be cute. Where did they get the idea for Iraq?

And the reason they went to Afghanistan is because it was a foothold in the mideast. They can use bases in Afghan to help with Iraq and now that they have Iraq look what country they have surrounded....

Iran was in the plan from the start (Axis of Evil anyone??). It is like chess, position peices, and execute. They surely did not plan for the current quicksand trap in Iraq. Afghanistan was probably the most unstable country in the mideast, so it was easy to topple. Not to mention it was possibly the most Islamic country of them all, and they would not have stood for the colonization of the mideast by foreign devils.

And anything to destroy Islam equals progress in the american mindset.

Logistically, dropping the WTC would be a nightmare, trying to get all the right people with the right gear in the right places at the right time. And security would have to be absolute, one loose end or hesitation and the US Gov‘t is finished. (Or what *that* the real aim here...? )

No doubt it would be an absolute nightmare for any group of terrorists to accomplish. That is why people with thorough knowledge of the buildings, the airplanes, and the promise of no immediate government action would have to be behind it.

And can I just say "Boxcutters"?? 4 Planes down due to boxcutters? the worst tragedy in american history due to 5 guys per plane armed to the teeth with boxcutters? It makes no sense. How many people on the plane? 100 maybe? And how do they know it was box cutters? A plane evaporates into thin air at the Pentagon, but $3 box cutters survive? One of the many things that does not add up.

Sorry, I just don‘t buy it. I also believe that Neil Armstrong walked on the moon, but then, I‘m a sucker.

I believe Armstrong walked on the Moon too because there was NO REASON why he could not have in 1969. They had the technology and the resolve, so there would be no point to lie about it.

But the offical story just does not add up with 9/11. There are too many problems that alert and attentive people can notice. Most people are just too blinded by hate towards the first people they hear did it, they don‘t bother to think about it. It is easier to hate then to question. They whole plan relied on predictable human nature to be a success. And for most people it worked.

 

[radop211tc]

Its pretty obvious, that the POTUS didnt have a play in the 9/11 attacks, OBL has already claimed that one.
It wouldn‘t surprise me, that the C*I*A had a play on the Antrax though, what a better way to educate the masses on WMD‘s and then point the guns at Iraq.
Reminds me of the whole JFK/Oswald/Cuba deal.

Tc...
VVV

 

[sm0ke]

Im gonna pipe up here for a minute, just cause I dont think it‘s been mentioned yet. I have a book in which there‘s an article on this subject, very in depth. In a passage, there are photos (still‘s of CNN video taken live from the event) showing a 3rd explosion in building 7 of the WTC complex, after the initial contact of the planes into the two towers. This was not struck by any falling debris or cement or whatever. The explosion can be clearly seen (it‘s an aerial photo) to take place seperately from the initial fires from the impact of the jets. There is another photo taken 2 days later, showing the outer shell of the building intact, but the entire inner core of the building has been blown outward. The official record states this building was taken down when the two towers collapsed. This simply isn‘t physically possible, as we‘re led to believe. Now, there‘s no way anyone anywhere will debate 9/11 publically, (in terms of who‘s responsible) but there must be something to explain this...not to mention the thousands of discrepancies that seem to surround the debate between the official version, and documented media that exists of the actual event.

My question is, this was carried live, across many countries...millions of people saw this. How come it didn‘t surface in the media in the form of questions or debate? Surely enough people picked up on it, somewhere, to get together and ask a few questions.

 

[sm0ke]

[No message]

 

[Bert]

Major Baker:

"I was wondering if most Canadian military personnel (at least the ones on this site) believe that the CIA and the white house orchestrated the Sep 11 Attacks?

My next question is. Do you believe the attacks on the US Embassies, USS Cole, first attack on the World Trade Center, etc were orchestrated by the Clinton White House and the CIA?"

I was going to avoid this thread because it put to Canadian military personnel and not civilians, but geeze, some of the posts are hilarious. Keep in mind that an opinion is what you have when you don‘t have all the facts. If you had all the facts, you wouldn‘t need an opinion.

I don‘t believe the any of the attacks mentioned were orchestrated by the CIA or the White House. Given news and intelligence sources from various countries and oraganizations, its obvious the USA has enemies around the world. Enemies that would if they could (and did in my opinion) strike at American targets.

Terrorists are not like countries. You can‘t make direct war with them like you could with Japan, Germany, or influence them like Central
America. Yet, they are able to stike with the force of a country given the use of tactical nukes
(and they are available), planes, trains and automobiles, and little bity microbes. Personalize this a sec. If someone was able to attack you, had the motivation, and proved they could by striking out at you, what would you do? As Canadians, no one has done it to us yet. To the Americans, someone did. So what would you do? Definitely, this is a direct and thorough national security issue. If the worst case is possible, the use of tactical nukes, I‘d say the USA (or anyone) has the right to protect themselves. What we all debate about is HOW the USA is going about it. Being the biggest target in the world, the USA is going about it agressively and with a purpose and maybe only time will tell whether it will be successful. I personally can see why the USA would consider this a war.

The terrorists have emplacments in various countries and have the largest support and protection in Yemen, Eqypt, Saudi Arabia, Afganistan, and Pakistan. The Americans have chosen to enter Afganistan and Iraq for the removal of governments that have aided, could, or likely would aid the terrorists. They will influence governments in the area and gather intelligence.

The issue isn‘t why the USA is doing it but HOW.
People take to issue the agression towards other countries, overthrowing governments, influencing regions that the USA has been heavily criticized
before. Yet, if this is a war, with the likelyhood of further attacks on American targets,
what could be considered "justified"? How far would you go to remove a terrorist threat if this happened in Ottawa, Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver,
Edmonton, or Halifax? The USA has the purpose, the means, and the capability to undertake a terrorist war. No other country in the world can.

My opinion isn‘t this is a CIA or White House created event. I think the USA is between a rock and a hard place politically, morally, and economically in its attempts to eliminate terrorists (who are primariy arabic, muslim, and a lesser extent anyone that has a beef with the USA). Though history repeats itself, this is the first time that such an event takes place on a global field than a restricted regional setting and its unpresidented.

 

[nbk]

Then again I‘ve heard that it was not the japanese that attacked Pearl Harbor It could have been americans dressed up as japanese and using aircraft painted like Japanese aircraft, hey, the missing American Aircraft Carriers probably participated in the attack....rediculious!

You must understand that people make up their own theories due to problems with the initial story that is being expressed as fact.

It is well documented that the Japanese were behind the attack on Pearl Harbour in 1941. The Japanese government--an independent and soverign nation--planned and decided to attack the United States of America. They had a reason to (expansion of the empire around the pacific rim) and they thought it would cripple the american fleet so that they would be unimpeded in their conquest.

The Japanese ambassador had planned to tell the americans just prior to the attack (about half an hour or so) but because they had to wait, the timing was off and it ended up being afterwards.

Again, you have to realize that "conspiracy theories" are not just around for the sake of being around. They have a purpose to help bring attention to things that do not add up when the government lies to the public.

 

[Smirek]

I have researched this topic much and have gone to quite a few lectures. I believe that Sept 11 was just an excuse to get the people behind the prez so that they could go into iraq and take over the oil fields.

Cannot recall the book but the military advisor to regan and a very good friend of kischenger wrote a book with a complete plan for the capture of the middle east‘s oil fields. It said that there were 3 ways to get the oil and they would need a pipeline to get it to the ocean. They could not go up into russia because the russians would never let them, they couldnt go through china because it was too far and again the chinese gov would never let that happen either.
So the only way was through afghanistan and the surrounding areas.

Its all very documented and the proof is so blatent that I really dont understand why people dont clue in. The CIA paid the hijackers through the pakistani intelligence network.

But then theres the drug trade and the billions upon billions of dollars the US government makes from it every year.

Look at enron.... They are a huge company and were found to have huge ties with the columbians and most of the money on wallstreet has been traced back to them as well. A lot of the money the world bank has is through these ties as well. Look it up.

Its very plain to see, the US planned and put in motion the events of sept 11th. I mean how can you believe that so many countries knew about it before it happened and have documented communiques warning the US beforehand. The US has the best intelligence agency in the world and the most money. If france or germany knew something was up then the americans would have known far in advance.

I think Occam‘s theory would apply here: the simplest theory is probably right. I don‘t think the US could have destroyed the Twin Towers without major leaks. The president can‘t even get a little nookie on the side without everyone knowing about it

isnt it obvious that the government controls the US media? Take the beginning of the Iraqi invasion. They showed people celebrating in the streets and praising US soldier for "freeing" them... But on so many other news stations they showed many many scenes of people in altercations with US soldiers and the tons of grafitti that sprang up everywhere. They werent happy they were pissed cause the US stepped into something that had nothing to do with them again.

anyway thats my rant

 

[Duotone81]

Stakhanov,

I am not really sure what to believe, honestly. It seems pretty strange to me that the buildings fell straight down, so having planes crash into the sides of them, twice, and not have them fall on their sides....weird

The force of the jets crashing into the WTC buildings was not great enough to knock them over. The lateral wind loads they experienced everyday was far greater then the point loads of the crashing jets. The reason they fell straight down was because of the intense heat from the combusting fuel from the jets. This heat compromised the structural steels integrity and it could no longer support the overlying loads. These loads then fell onto the underlying columns and superceeded their load bearing capacity. You have the same loads but less columns to support them. Gravity would then pull the entire mess towards the earths centre. That‘s why they fell straight down. I read that most of the structural columns were located at the outer edge of the building as to make for more room on each floor. This arangement might‘ve had something to do with it as well.

Sherwood,

I was wondering if most Canadian military personnel (at least the ones on this site) believe that the CIA and the white house orchestrated the Sep 11 Attacks?

Most? What in your history here has lead you to believe that most members here are paranoid conspiracy theorists?