TF 1-07

[GUNS]

Not sure if this is the correct place to ask my question but I am sure I will be directed to the proper place.

My question/concern is with the living standards and training schedule of TF 107.

My son and his fellow soldiers(Reservist) from this area are back home on leave from Gagetown. We had them over to the house for a welcome home party.

Though I was not involved in the conversation, I overheard them talking among themselves of how they were being treated.
As an ex-soldier I could not believe my ears that the military would treat soldiers who are training for A'gan in this manner.

Examples: sleeping quarters - eight men to a room that was orginally for four. Not knowing from week to week where they will be sleeping.
Being moved to huts where there is no proper storage for their kit.

              Pay is all screwed up, told they were intitled to monies and after they had spent that money were told , it was a mistake.

              Training is a joke, no itinerary sometimes and when there is an itinerary, its not followed.

I am concerned because quite a few are talking about not renewing their contract when it comes up for renewal.

I was wondering if this actually happening? I would like to hear from other TF 107 soldiers.

 

[orange.paint]

Although I cannot comment directly on training I can tell you from what we have seen In WTP/petersville they had it pretty good.Two buses layed on one to go to St.john one for Frederiction every night while we were there...far from rough times.

8 men to a 4 man room= add bunkbeds to a 4 man room.(at least they got a roof)
no room for kit? 4 man room and no room for kit?

pay all screwed up..they spent the money before even recieveing it! thats just a big no no.Dont spend it till its in your hand.

Training is a joke...Ill leave up to they guys running the stands etc for that (2RCR?)

Hey GUNS seeming you were in dont you remember this stuff? Too bad they are thinking about getting out,Ive got a few reserve buddies that are excited to be going.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Same here, my unit has a section going on that ROTO.

 

[GUNS]

Remember all to well.

One would assume that over the years, the military that I served in, is still not the military my son is serving in.

The days of " It's always done that way", " Hurry up and wait ", and " SNAFU " should be something from the past and not in the vocabulary of todays soldier.

The saying " The more things change, the more they remain the same" comes to mind.

Its not how things are being done that's my concern. Its who its being done to.

 

[geo]

Guns,
Throughout the summer, CTC Gagetown has been chock a block full of troops taking courses - School of Engineering, Armd & Infantry are all there & as the centre of excellence - everyone goes there to learn.... so yeah - quite possible facilities were stretched.
Could tell ya that TF 2/06 was training in Valcartier last summer ('05).  For part of the summer = they were quartered under canvas (concrete pads).  It wasn't the Ritz but the troops were made as comfortable as possible - take it or leave it......... there wasn't any widespread quitting by the reservists... it was explained- it was understood - all was up front - no secrets, no surprises.

With respect to the money..... would need to know what the problem is / was. What promisses were made, advances paid and reason for it's being claimed back.

If the troopies didnt have the basics of their 2050 form signed off - they can't be put onto class C - is that it?

Let me know what's the beef - someone might have messed up OR individuals might have had unrealistic expectations.

 

[17thRecceSgt]

Guns

FWIW, I had a pretty long conversation with a buddy of mine today (45 minutes or so) that I bumped into at work who is one of the TF1-07 D & S Platoons, he is one of the Pl WOs and a good friend.

From what he said, yes some of the trng was alittle...well whats the word to use...let's just say it could have been better.  But that was at the beginning for the most part.

I have never heard a word about the pay being screwed up, and I work at the HQ and attend the COS weekly staff meeting from time to time and since the stand-up of the Battle School last spring, I have not heard about this stuff at all, even in the O Grps.  If its happening, it would appear very quietly.

What the buddy of mine DID say was that there was lots of Armchair Generals, and that they were having most of their issues with the MCpls who thought the Coy should be running different.  None of them have been anywheres or done anything for the most part, and my buddy said stuff was happening as per normal for a deployment (this isn't his first tour).

If the admin side was that messed up, he would obviously know about it as Pl WO, and he would have said it was all messed up.  

Admittedly, this is only one platoon in the whole gaggle, but as NCOs and WOs tend to do, he would have told me if the other guys in from our Mess were FUBAR.

I can only tell you what my buddy was saying, and he said things were rough starting (aren't they always though, which is why Reservists do predeployment workups?).

I can tell you this.  Before the RCG completed the ELOC and went on to the TMST, some of the troops were getting tired of (cough cough) PT in the morning and decided to do it at their own pace, not the OCs.  That is the other side of the coin, some of the troops aren't used to "training" this way and had to adjust.  This PL WO thought the training was not only necessary but started to weed out the ones that were more interested in the thought of going on the tour from the ones who were truly committed to it.  

I am not sure what to say about the not knowing where they were sleeping stuff...is that really something to whine about?? 

MRM

*edit - the troops who pulled the PT thing were called to task for it by the way.  Forgot to mention that.

 

[HollywoodHitman]

This sort of thing is unfortunately the status quo for Reservists on pre-deployment training.....It was the same on 1-06, and will likely not change. Lessons learned are sadly too often quickly forgotten. My pay was screwed (still is) but at least I was getting paid. There were guys on my tour (Reservists) who went MONTHS without paycheques during pre deployment. This is not imaginary, and the chain of command was WELL informed regarding the pay issues. It all has it's moment, but in the end, despite the MILES of BS and crap they'll put up with/encounter it's not a bad go overall.......Sh*t show yes, for the most part, but on par for the army.

Much of the training is still ad hoc simply because we lack the resources.....The money is finally there, but the means to conduct it is still being worked on.

Tell the boys to bear with it. It all works out in the end, and let 'em know not to sweat the small stuff......Easier said than done I know. Believe me I know.

Best of luck to them on their tour.

Cheers

HH

 

[Armymedic]

The saying " The more things change, the more they remain the same" comes to mind.

Its not how things are being done that's my concern. Its who its being done to.

Recently here in Petawawa, they had a group of soldiers on a training course for 4 months. They put them all up (Sr NCOs and Officers included) 8 pers in similar 4 person rooms, with all their gear.

As for the money...well? Young uns...what can you say. Pay does get screwed up for us full time guys too, if we are not on top of it.

Training being screwed...2 RCR has not had to set up Bn level deployment training for several yrs. They have a pretty steep learning curve and are no doubt very busy. It is natural for them to be a bit screwed up. In Pet, when we have a Bg going over, a full bn worth of troops do nothing but support the training for the Bg going over. In Gagetown, you do not have that number of people to support the training. So, it is logical it would be screwed up.

Also if this is the first time they have done predeployment tng, they would not realize how much free time you have. Tell them to get there admin sorted, do pt, an just relax, cause once they go... they will not have time for anything.

 

[17thRecceSgt]

Guns,

Quick question, are they with the Bn or the NCE/NSE component?

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Guns,

Quick question, are they with the Bn or the NCE/NSE component?

The ones training over the summer are the ones to be attached to 2 RCR et al. NCE/NSE don't start until later this month or early next (or so I've been told).

 

[Arctic Acorn]

From what I've seen from some of the the BG folks, they're doing a little better than the RCG/NCE/NSE, but have their own issues. For example, the guys in the companies are staying in larger rooms, with over 20 troops. The upside is that they have been able to stay there consistently (without being moved around constantly), but not even having lockers to store kit has caused a fair bit of kit theft (not from them....they can't lock their room).

The biggest beef from the TF 1-07 folks is in part being moved around so much. I don't think people mind so much living in cramped conditions, but its the moving around that is the source of frustration. I think they have a point. Sure, Gagetown is a the home to quite a few schools, and sees a large number of candidates come every summer for courses, but I think there is merit to arguing that maybe they should have been the ones going to 'FOB Argonaut' instead of the TF 1-07 folks. I'm new to the base, but it would seem to me that it would be much easier to block off a couple of buildings for TF 1-07 pers, who will require R&Q until Feb (Wainwright excluded), and push any overflow (courses) to Argonaut for the duration (a much smaller period)? It has to be more difficult to book R&Q for a group of pers, and them re-booking them for each exercise? Accomodations wanted to re-book each of us in our cell for each of the Virtual/Royal Archer exercises (even though they were in sequence)...it took a lot of pushing from 2 RCR to fix it.

:dontpanic:

 

[George Wallace]

What!  Take over buildings and facilities belonging to the Cadet Movement.......Heritic!

 

[17thRecceSgt]

The ones training over the summer are the ones to be attached to 2 RCR et al. NCE/NSE don't start until later this month or early next (or so I've been told).

The D & S platoons, and the CIMIC and TacPhyOps types all did the ELOC stuff and are in Gtown too.  They started as "one mob" and then got broken up into their respective org's which is ongoing I think...

I am getting dribs and draps from friends in the Bn side, NCE and NSE. 

Some were selected for and went right to the Bn after the ELOC trng was done.  Others went D & S...CIMIC...etc.

Much more might be too much for here on the info side.

 

[Arctic Acorn]

What!  Take over buildings and facilities belonging to the Cadet Movement.......Heritic!

Heh heh...I usually get called a "Philistine"...the change is welcome....thanks!

I guess it's an 'outsider, looking in', thing. I'm still getting used to working with the Bn and Base Gagetown.

Maybe if I disengage brain it'll be easier....

I've been on leave the last two weeks, so it will be interesting to see how things have changed since I've been gone. I know that accomodations have tried to book our rooms out from under us in that time...

:dontpanic:

 

[medicineman]

I had problems getting rooms with a desk for 6 students on a 2 week instructor's course I was teaching in May - these people had research and lessons to prepare every night and didn't even get the common courtesy of a bed side lgith until a week intot he course and hgh level yelling and screaming from Ottawa.  It was simply because the infrastructure wasn't there.  Every summer, alot of the schools have their candidates either bivouacked in PV or in Blue Mountain or out near the flight line -  that's par for the course in Gagetown right now until the new shacks are built.

MM

 

[Nfld Sapper]

 Every summer, a lot of the schools have their candidates either bivouacked in PV or in Blue Mountain or out near the flight line -  that's par for the course in Gagetown right now until the new shacks are built.
MM

Dare you talk of my tent city  ;D ? it will always be there as we had begun construction of 32 more tent pads.

Well the problem with accommodations in G'town is that they book the rooms months in advance and accommodations refuses to let the rooms be used if they have already been booked. Which makes no sense to me.

 

[medicineman]

Dude - if it makes sense, we don't do it.  You ought to know that's the alternate motto of the CF.

MM

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Yeah I know MM  :cheers:

 

[Arctic Acorn]

Well, that makes the unofficial motto of TF 1-07 all the more appropriate

'Why plan, when you can react?'

:dontpanic:

 

[medicineman]

That's what happens when you have to do the chicken dance every day at work.

MM