Temporary Duty ( TD ) merged

[George Wallace]

Alright, thanks in advance Occam.

Does anyone know at what point overnight stay (and thus TD) is supposed to be granted? For example, is there a distance or something which, if you're required to work past away from your home unit/emoloying unit, you are entitled to TD/over night stay?

At which point is TD entitled? and if its only entitled if you stay overnight, at which point is overnight stay entitled?

A couple of points that have been bothering me.  One:  I am under the impression that when one is on TD, there is no longer a "LOW" rate.  There is only ONE rate.

Second:  To be on TD you will require a Fin Code.  That is given to you in one of several ways.  Two ways may be: it was either given to you by your Command, for example: LFCA, or from your Unit who will have Fin Codes for Training Events that they have budgeted for when drawing up their Training Plan and Budget for the Next Fiscal Year.  That means that last year, your Unit would have had to "budget" for such an event.  Other sources of the Fin Code you may receive for this TD, may be from another Command, such as the CFRG, or from perhaps from a National source tasking. 

If you have NO Fin Code, then everything is out of your pocket.  Even with a Fin Code, you may still have to pay for some of the expenses out of pocket.  We have three pers who are going on a Crse in Toronto.  They have a Fin Code that covers the Crse fee of $800, but they must pay for their own accommodations out of their pockets. 

 

[Michael OLeary]

Just because he hasn't been given financial consideration and a Fin Code for travel expense to be billed against doesn't means he's not entitled.  Finding the right regulations is often the first step in approaching admin staff on such an issue.

 

[George Wallace]

Just because he hasn't been given financial consideration and a Fin Code for travel expense to be billed against doesn't means he's not entitled.  Finding the right regulations is often the first step in approaching admin staff on such an issue.

Basically that is the advice he should be given.  To fo to his OR staff and OPs Staff and find out what regulations, authorization, Fin Codes, Route Letters, etc. he requires for this.  We can speculate all we want here, but we have no idea of what Message or such may have been given, to send him on this 'tasking'.

 

[Occam]

Things should be a bit clearer when I'm able to post the link to the e-mail trail/message dealing with this issue on Monday.  It's bookmarked at work.

 

[aesop081]

Are you traveling from A to B for a course ?

If so, check your course loading message from the phrase " pers attending subject course from the ___________ area will do so without the benefit of TD allowance" or words to the effect.

 

[Forgotten_Hero]

Well, no. Whats happening is, I signed onto the contract to teach on some courses in city A and myunit of employment is in city A. The first course finished, no problems there. The second one started, but this time, its being run in city B and I travel there daily to teach. Im wondering what I'm eligible for.

Basically that is the advice he should be given.  To fo to his OR staff and OPs Staff and find out what regulations, authorization, Fin Codes, Route Letters, etc. he requires for this.  We can speculate all we want here, but we have no idea of what Message or such may have been given, to send him on this 'tasking'.

The reason I braught it to the site is because the only thing the OR would tell me is that I'm not eligible for TD because accomodation is not provided and said the reference to this is probably somewhere buried within the DIN, but they could not point me to a reference.

As for the kilometric rate, myself and others whos employing unit is in City A are driving our own vehicles to city B for employment, and a CFRd vehicle is not often provided to us for this so I was wondering whether we were entitled to the high kilometric rate or not.

 

[exgunnertdo]

One factor that could be at play is the geographic region for the cities in question.  One can drive from one city to the other and still be in the same geographic region.  If you leave the geographic region, you should be on TD, and be given R&Q.  You'll have to find the geographic region for your normal workplace (treasury board regs, I think?).  If the loc of the course is within that region, then no TD.  But, you should be entitled MTEC, I think.  Where I work, we get MTEC for mileage (high rate) if we're working away from our normal location.

But at the very least, you should be getting commuting assistance (low rate), I would think.

 

[Forgotten_Hero]

The two cities are over 100km appart. I've been trying to figure out how the regions are split up but I had no success.

Where I work, we get MTEC for mileage (high rate) if we're working away from our normal location.

That makes sense to me. I was told by OR that the high rate only applies if I am on TD though, hence throwing me back into my initial conundrum.

 

[Zoomie]

You took this Class-B contract right?  You weren't forced into taking it, and you're not being sent on a TD tasking to Meaford, Petawawa or Gagetown, right?  TD = sent away on a tasking, provided with accomodations or a FIN code to provide rations and quarters.

If you are on a regular PRes contract to instruct on a full time CO-OP course,etc - you're not on TD.  If you have to drive a long way - ask for commuting assistance. 

If you have to drive 100kms each day - maybe you should reconsider this tasking.  That's a long commute.

 

[Biohazardxj]

Without all the details it is hard to give a proper answer.  But, from what I can glean from the above posts, I would have to say that you should be submitting an MTEC (Minor Travel Expense Claim) for each day.  This would give you high rate round trip each day plus a meal or two depending on the time of departure and return.  If you are not staying overnight (past midnight) you are not on TD, therefore not entitled to the benefits that go with TD status.

 

[Forgotten_Hero]

Thanks for the info Sgt. Would you be able to point me to something I can print off to substantiate this? Without substantiation it'll get denied right in the OR.

 

[Occam]

Found it - and it was also on this site all along as well.  I was close, but not entirely correct.

See the message posted at http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/70878.0.html.

The message can also be found on the DWAN at http://halifax.mil.ca/TRADES/NAVCOM/Documents/GeneralAllowanceClaimUpdate.doc

The way I read it, if your temporary place of employment is beyond (as in more distant) than your regular place of employment, you are entitled to high rate for the total distance less the distance between your home and regular place of employment.

If your temporary place of employment is closer to your home than your regular place of work, then you get nothing as it is along the way to your regular place of work and you're expected to foot the bill for travel to your regular place of work.

 

[Occam]

Here's the applicable section of the Canadian Forces Temporary Duty Instruction (CFTDI) located at http://hr.dwan.dnd.ca/dgcb/dcba/engraph/download_e.asp?docid=67&sidesection=2&sidecat=7

5.13 Temporary Workplace Change

(1) A member is normally responsible to get to and from work on a daily basis.  However, if a member is assigned to a temporary workplace, i.e., on training, promotion board, short term work assignment, etc., the member is entitled to be reimbursed additional transportation costs over and above the normal commuting distance when transportation is not provided.  The provisions of this directive shall apply for the duration of the workplace change, to a maximum of sixty (60) calendar days. If transportation is provided and the member does not want to use the government provided transportation, there is no further entitlement to transportation expenses.

 

[Forgotten_Hero]

Thanks Occam. I asked about that refere in the CFTDTI because it referenced the high rate and they told me that the CFTDTI only applies for when I'm on TD, which I'm not, so it doesnt apply to me.

 

[Occam]

Thanks Occam. I asked about that refere in the CFTDTI because it referenced the high rate and they told me that the CFTDTI only applies for when I'm on TD, which I'm not, so it doesnt apply to me.

I think they have it backwards.  You're on TD because you meet the criteria of having to perform a duty at a place outside the location of your unit.  It's not a case of not being on TD simply because they don't want to call it that.

If you were hired on contract to carry out training at a particular location, and then they temporarily change the location at some time after you've started your contract, that's temporary duty.  Here are the definitions, again according to CFTDI:

“temporary duty (TD)” means the time spent to attend a course or perform a duty for a period of six months or less (excluding CF members on BTL training), at a place outside the location of the member’s unit, including travelling time to the place of TD and return.

“workplace”

• permanent/regular workplace – the single permanent location determined by the CF at or from which a CF member ordinarily is expected to perform the work of their position.

• Temporary workplace – the single location where a CF member is temporarily assigned within the headquarters area to perform the work of their position.

 

[CountDC]

First - smack your clerks that are not taking care of you.

CFTDI definitions:

temporary duty (TD)” means the time spent to attend a course or perform a duty for a period of six months or less (excluding CF members on BTL training), at a place outside the location of the member’s unit, including travelling time to the place of TD and return.

Section 5 of CFTDI Travel within Headquarters Area – No overnight stay

enough said on paragraph title - pretty straight forward.

How about this from CFTDI:

5.13 Temporary Workplace Change

(1) A member is normally responsible to get to and from work on a daily basis.  However, if a member is assigned to a temporary workplace, i.e., on training, promotion board, short term work assignment, etc., the member is entitled to be reimbursed additional transportation costs over and above the normal commuting distance when transportation is not provided.  The provisions of this directive shall apply for the duration of the workplace change, to a maximum of sixty (60) calendar days. If transportation is provided and the member does not want to use the government provided transportation, there is no further entitlement to transportation expenses.

Bloody clerks that don't want to do their jobs.  You are entitled to high rate of mileage no matter how they try to slice it. You are either on TD or you are on Temporary Workplace Change.  Tell them to choose and pay you your money.  Bet if it was one of them they would find this quick enough.

If it was me I would simply log into Claims X, raise the mtec using the unit fin code and submit for approval.  Section 32 approval - CO/RSM hand delivered (pick the one you think will get the best response).

if they paid you high rate for 100kms it would be somewhere in the range of $50 a day tax free.  Using the estimate 20 work days a month that is $1000.

Now go get them and force them to do their jobs.

 

[PMedMoe]

Small observation if I may.  They will only pay mileage above and beyond what the member usually incurs, yes?  So they will not pay the full 100 kms (or whatever) but the difference between this and the normal work commute.

Eg:  New commute 100 kms - Normal commute 15 kms = 85 kms x 2 (round trip).

 

[George Wallace]

CountDC

This is a serious problem; Clerks who don't want to do their job, or want you to do it all for them, and we have seen many of them, but it is by far not the most serious of the whole.  In many cases we have Clerks who honestly don't have the knowledge, nor the experience, to do their jobs.  FRP has come home to roust in the RMS Trade.  It is bitting everyone in the CF, no matter the Element or Component.

 

[dapaterson]

George:  Less FRP than the grand concept that Fin and Admin could be crammed into a single clerk, who could be moved from job to job and never developing the depth of knowledge to provide the needed service level.

Add to that a slow to react school in Borden (RPSR has been around for more than a decade - maybe time to start training clerks to use it?) and you have the unfortunate current situation.

 

[CountDC]

CountDC

This is a serious problem; Clerks who don't want to do their job, or want you to do it all for them, and we have seen many of them, but it is by far not the most serious of the whole.  In many cases we have Clerks who honestly don't have the knowledge, nor the experience, to do their jobs.  FRP has come home to roust in the RMS Trade.  It is bitting everyone in the CF, no matter the Element or Component.

and for us clerks that don't have the knowledge we are taught on every course we do how to look up and find the information - it is called Pub Searches.  This members clerks gave him an answer without providing the regulations and then when confronted with one they fluffed it off instead of checking it fully.  Lack of knowledge or experience does not wash in this case - this is something that even a QL3 clerk should have been able to answer.