Temporary Duty ( TD ) merged

[IN HOC SIGNO]

You're not in a hoochie out in the field....be happy! 

 

[Eye In The Sky]

This whole thead can be summed up with...

:brickwall:

Try thinking of it this way:  "The less money I waste on my own hotel room, the more money we have for operations, new kit, bullets, or...." and be happy.  Was the WO sarcastic in his response?  If it were me, I would have had a different answer for you...most Snr NCOs/WOs aren't too keen on being questioned on this stuff.  The Crown is putting you up in a hotel, with TD to boot (tax free $).  Entitlement?  As a tax payer myself, I would prefer to see my $ go to operational things for all Environments rather than 'private hotel rooms'.  Here's an idea;  go to the Legion and ask the guys with grey hair around the place what they think you should do.  I am sure they had this problem in WWII or Korea.   :

As for your "Unit Legal Advisor"  : aspirations...perhaps reading all of QR & O Vol 1, Ch 7 is in order. 

QR & O Vol 1, Article 7.04 (3) states: A grievance may not be submitted jointly with any other member.

If you haven't yet...read http://admfincs.mil.ca/qr_o/vol1/tofc07_e.asp

And...I hope your WO isn't on this site...you provided enough info about where you have been and where you are going now to show up on the radar to anyone in your CoC (perhaps).

I have put my own people in seperate rooms "when I could" and I have also put them in shared rooms "when I couldn't".  Did you consider that...its getting close to the end of the FY and...maybe the unit's (one providing the Fin Code) unit budget is starting to get tight and they adjusted for this??

 

[PO2FinClk]

According to CFTDI's members staying in commercial accommodations "Where available, the standard for accommodation is a single room."  Does this constitute an entitlement?

Yes if by yourself - meaning that a person travelling by themselves cannot get a double room or a penthouse. Seriously, give your head a shake as I am not which organization you believe you are part of.

As far as SQ's, if Ottawa had any available and for examples sake they were dorms, that's where you would be staying as that is all that is required.

Instead of whining on internet forums, why not ask your claims people and see what they say.

 

[PO2FinClk]

Could you give me a source for that?  I can't seem to find it in any CF directive or order.  In actuality if he put us 4 to a room in cots when they had single rooms(in barracks) available, he would be going against an entitlement in the QR&Os... assuming we were entitled to single quarters.  You can't waive an entitlement without cause just because you want to.

Funny, it was located in the very same reference you providing on this forum, conevient isn't it. If you are going to quote something, quote it in its entirety and not just paraphrasing in attempt to meet your selfish indlugences:

(1) In accordance with CFAO 28-1 and 209-4, http://admfincs.mil.ca/admfincs/subjects/cfao/028-01_e.asp and http://admfincs.mil.ca/admfincs/subjects/cfao/209-04_e.asp, when travel is related to activities held on a military or government facility where accommodation is available, such accommodation shall be utilized.  If accommodation is not available, the Government Hotel Directory shall serve as a guide for the cost, location and selection of accommodation.  Where available, the standard for accommodation is a single room.  Members shall request the government accommodation rate at the time of booking.

However as you gratiously state the entitlement in QR&O's would you be so kind as to provide that very reference?

Unlike others though, I will encourage you to submit that redress you mention. Seriously, please do and then do provide us with feedback from its outcome.

 

[Roy Harding]

...

Unlike others though, I will encourage you to submit that redress you mention. Seriously, please do and then do provide us with feedback from its outcome.

You're evil.

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

Is he entitled to have his ears repaired after they get pinned back by his RSM? ;D

 

[Roy Harding]

Is he entitled to have his ears repaired after they get pinned back by his RSM? ;D

He may get them repaired, but he would then be charged with "Self Inflicted Injuries".

 

[SupersonicMax]

Yes if by yourself - meaning that a person travelling by themselves cannot get a double room or a penthouse. Seriously, give your head a shake as I am not which organization you believe you are part of.

As far as SQ's, if Ottawa had any available and for examples sake they were dorms, that's where you would be staying as that is all that is required.

Instead of whining on internet forums, why not ask your claims people and see what they say.

I'm no expert, but the ref seems clear that he is entitled to a single room, or at least can be easily interpreted that way.  And nowhere it states that this policy applies when only 1 pers travels. 

Personnally, I've never been on TD with someone else in my room.

EDIT:  If you tell me it is intented for 1 guy/gal traveling, please find me the document that lay the entitlements for more than 1 pers traveling.

Max

 

[nodeg]

Wow.  This has turned a bit comical.  I'm going to clear up a few misconceptions.

1. As I clarified a few replies up, I have no intention of filing a group grievance.  I also have no intentions of inciting a mutiny.  I realize that this misconception was caused by bad phrasing on my part, and I apologise.

2. The grievance actually had little to do with room entitlement.  If there was an entitlement, it would have been mentioned in the grievance but only anecdotally.

3. I realize that living 2 to a room is not a hardship, and am very happy with my room-mate.  You people are going off without knowing the whole story.  I was only asking a simple question.  The answer was either "yes it's an entitlement," or "no it isn't."  I'm honestly not a whining brat.

Anyway, I agree that it likely isn't an entitlement(though it is ambiguous) . Thanks to those of you who tried being helpful instead of flaming... heck, even those of you who tried being helpful and then flamed.  The rest of you are trolls   I'm going to go swim in the pool.  Have a good one guys.

 

[aesop081]

I'm no expert, but the ref seems clear that he is entitled to a single room, or at least can be easily interpreted that way.  And nowhere it states that this policy applies when only 1 pers travels. 

Personnally, I've never been on TD with someone else in my room.

Max

Max, i dont have the reference handy as i am not at work but i have had to deal with this recently. Submariners and Aircrew are entitled to a room by themselves. Base or hotel is irrelevant.

 

[PO2FinClk]

You people are going off without knowing the whole story.  I was only asking a simple question.  The answer was either "yes it's an entitlement," or "no it isn't."  I'm honestly not a whining brat.

Then know that if you do not want to be misinterpreted you should provide the whole story. And I gave you the answer but you went on about it, so don't try to blame anyone other then yourself on this forum for the lack of either intent or clarity of your posts.

As far as clarity, it is there and if anyone has doubts please go ahead and query through your respective chains. Just don't forget that any TD is to be conducted in the most practical and economical means even if it means sharing a room with 3 other guyz at the sleazy motel.

What Aviator mentions is due to the living conditions they must endure in the conduct of their duties away from home, not TD in the purist form.

 

[SupersonicMax]

Then know that if you do not want to be misinterpreted you should provide the whole story. And I gave you the answer but you went on about it, so don't try to blame anyone other then yourself on this forum for the lack of either intent or clarity of your posts.

As far as clarity, it is there and if anyone has doubts please go ahead and query through your respective chains. Just don't forget that any TD is to be conducted in the most practical and economical means even if it means sharing a room with 3 other guyz at the sleazy motel.

What Aviator mentions is due to the living conditions they must endure in the conduct of their duties away from home, not TD in the purist form.

I personnally think the policies are designed in a way to have a balance between member's QOL and Economical means for the CF. 

Extract from the CFTDTI, Section 1, policy Framework:

(4) As leaders and managers, COs are accountable under the Financial Administration Act for the decisions made regarding the reimbursement of travel expenses.  COs are responsible for exercising their authorities in accordance with the framework and the FAA in the best interest of the CF and its members.

To be as economical as possible is not the only factor in CF's financial policies.

Max

 

[aesop081]

To be as economical as possible is not the only factor in CF's financial policies.

Quite right but it is often the overriding concern.  To use your argument of "balance" , in this case, the unit CO may have very well established financial concerns as a priority as seems to be his/her prerogative.

 

[SupersonicMax]

Quite right but it is often the overriding concern.  To use your argument of "balance" , in this case, the unit CO may have very well established financial concerns as a priority as seems to be his/her prerogative.

My interpretation of all that is that the CO cannot give less that what the policies outline.  Am I right or right out in the left field?

Max

 

[George Wallace]

My interpretation of all that is that the CO cannot give less that what the policies outline.  Am I right or right out in the left field?

Max

Left Field.

Your CO has budget that he must keep.  If it looks like he is going over budget, he has to cut somewhere.  Money still makes the world go round.  Money still does not grow on trees.

 

[aesop081]

My interpretation of all that is that the CO cannot give less that what the policies outline.  Am I right or right out in the left field?

Max

I understand what you are saying Max. I'm not arguing with you. My interpretation is different than yours and i do not think that what was posted here as far as extracts from the policy, is clear enough to determine which one of us is right. This is one of those cases where i walk to my SOR and ask the CC.

What i do know is that i am entitled to my own room, wether on base or comercial lodging. We dealt with this last year when i went to Sicily for exercise. Aircrew and submariners are entitled to their own rooms.  I cant speak for others therefore i wont. When CFB Halifax tried to stick me in A-block with 6 other people, they had to change their tune when they figured out i was aircrew. They even showed me the policy that applied.  They did not have any single rooms available so they had to give me a 2-man room all by myself.

 

[SupersonicMax]

Left Field.

Your CO has budget that he must keep.  If it looks like he is going over budget, he has to cut somewhere.  Money still makes the world go round.  Money still does not grow on trees.

Then policies are just suggestions?

Max

 

[aesop081]

Then policies are just suggestions?

Max

Max.....my personal feeling is that alot of fiscal policie are written vaguely for a reason. It leaves room for managers / COs to make decisions depending on their budget situations.

 

[armyvern]

*sigh*  There is nothing illegal about placing a redress of grievance.  To clarify, I am considering submitting this grievance based on actions I have observed effecting myself and junior ranks members of the CF.  Mutiny would be convincing these junior ranks to submit their own grievances.  I appreciate your stance against Barrackroom lawyering(though calling me the ring-leader of a mutiny is no better), but I assure you I have no "warped" ideas of how a junior member of the CF should be treated.  If I KNEW that I was entitled to my own room (or wasn't), I wouldn't be here.

I'm beginning to think this will turn into a flame fest, but I'll try my question again:

According to CFTDI's members staying in commercial accommodations "Where available, the standard for accommodation is a single room."  Does this constitute an entitlement?

I suggest that you ask any CAP candidates whether they are entitled to single rooms while TD'd to Gagetown for their course. Or many other course candidates who find themselves 8 per room ... despite their possibly being a vacant single room in singles quarters. You ARE NOT entitled to a single room as a student on course simply because there is one available.

Fact is ... you are on course. You stay in whatever accomodations are arranged for the students on that course.

I'd also respectfully suggest to you that you scroll up a tad bit from the quote that you keep pulling out of the CFTDI and read the entireity of it:

Section 3:

"Accomodations"

· "semi-permanent accommodation" – accommodation obtainable at weekly or monthly rates which provides sleeping, meal preparation and refrigeration facilities, i.e. Les Suites Ottawa.

Now, I may be mistaken, but I'd argue that the location where you are actually taking your course ... arranged your accomodations for you. I'm also quite sure that they booked them on a weekly/monthly rate (such as Ottawa does for members posted to that location IR).

Hint: Les Suites ... is a hotel facility.

Now, please don't pull the "but my  our hotel room doesn't have

meal preparation and refrigeration facilities

card because, if that's the case, then your entitlement to the meal rate kicks in (if the course has not already arranged to have your meals provided by other means) as per this same CFTDI.

Long story short -- you are a student on course. If that course finds it more cost effective to accomodate you in a pre-arranged hotel room, more than one per room ... that's quite acceptable -- and you are certainly being treated NO differently than thousands of other CF members who proceed on course.

BTW ... some roto zero pers a few years ago, upon initial deployment, were accomodated in hotel rooms overseas for an extended time period .... many of them double up in those hotel rooms.

Good luck with your "class action" ...  :

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

He tuned out and went to lie by the pool in his sub standard accomodations after calling us all a bunch of trolls....is there any use keeping this inane conversation going? :