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Tactical Armoured Patrol Vehicle - RG-31, LAV Coyote, and (partial) G-Wagon Replacement

Well, if we are so determined on "interoperability" (as with the F-35)...from Defense Industry Daily recap:

M-ATV: A Win, at Last, for Oshkosh
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/M-ATV-A-Win-at-Last-for-Oshkosh-05602/

...
Oshkosh Defense’s M-ATV candidate secured a long-denied MRAP win, and the firm continues to remain ahead of production targets. The initial plan expected to spend up to $3.3 billion to order 5,244 M-ATVs for the US Army (2,598), Marine Corps (1,565), Special Operations Command (643), US Air Force (280) and the Navy (65), plus 93 test vehicles. FY 2010 budgets and purchases have pushed this total even higher, and orders now stand at over 8,000…

Mark
Ottawa
 
BAE has posted some photos of the Alligator 6x6 which is one of their entries for the TAPV competition.
 
This looks like the SEP prototype from several years back. Is Canada seriously considering a vehicle with serial electric drive?

Very advanced concept, and (if anyone is actually putting long term thinking into effect) the potential basis of a family of vehicles. Yes, I know, the program has no mandate etc. How is it that we can see the advantages of this, but it can't be sold that way in Ottawa?
 
Thucydides said:
This looks like the SEP prototype from several years back. Is Canada seriously considering a vehicle with serial electric drive?

Very advanced concept, and (if anyone is actually putting long term thinking into effect) the potential basis of a family of vehicles. Yes, I know, the program has no mandate etc. How is it that we can see the advantages of this, but it can't be sold that way in Ottawa?

The BAE Alligator 6x6 is a further development of the SEP program.  It has done away with the electric drive and uses a conventional powertrain drive system, as per the 8x8 SEP which was BAE's submission for the British FRES program (won by GDLS-Europe's Pirahana V, then subsequently cancelled).
 
Did the British FRES program get cancelled? That means the Scimitar/spartan family is going on to serve 40 years+. Well now our allies know how we feel at times.
 
FRES Specialist (Recce) has been awarded to GDLS Europe with their ASCOD vehicle, which competed against a modified (shortened by 1 roadwheel) recce version of the CV90.

The 'utility' portion of FRES which was intended to replace the FV432 and Saxon APCs (?) with an 8x8 wheeled vehicle.  The vehicles that competed were the Nexter VBCI, the GD Pirahana V, and the ARTEC Boxer.
 
For the timebeing FRES-Specialist (CVR-T recce replacement) is still a go.  FRES-Utility (Saxon, FV-432) has been cancelled for the timebeing.  However, with the budget reviews still ongoing, I wouldn't be surprised if the whole thing gets binned, only to start again in a couple years under a new mandate/program name.
 
For those who can't wait (or want something different from what the usual suspects are offering):

http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/02/darpa-wants-your-help-experimental.html#

DARPA wants your help - Experimental Crowd-derived Combat-derived Vehicle (XC2V) Design Challenge
ShareExperimental Crowd-derived Combat-derived Vehicle (XC2V) Design Challenge

The Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) seeks to engage the crowd for its latest challenge. The Experimental Crowd-derived Combat-support Vehicle (XC2V) Design Challenge, facilitated by Local Motors, Inc. asks individuals to conceptualize a vehicle body design for two different missions—Combat Reconnaissance and Combat Delivery & Evacuation.

This is an opportunity for servicemembers, race and auto enthusiasts, and those with an interest and talent in engineering, materials, industrial design, etc., to support the warfigther by contributing to the future of military vehicle manufacturing, win up to $10,000, and see their design become a reality in the form of a fully functioning concept vehicle.

This competition provides experts, novices and the curious the opportunity to provide input to the final design of the vehicle. Whether you provide a design or just vote on the best submission, you can contribute.

The challenge begins today, and final submissions are due March 3, 2011.

Local motors has a page and details

Requirements

Engineering Requirements:

* Use Local Motors tubular steel chassis that has: •18" (45cm) of independent Front Suspension travel •20" (50cm) Rear Suspension Travel • Solid Rear axle, rear wheel drive • Front and Rear stabilizer bars and rear Watts link setup. The suspension mounting points, engine location, base chassis, wheelbase, and track width should not be changed in any way)
* This proof of concept vehicle will use the GM LS3 V8 powertrain. If this vehicle were to go into production, the actual powertrain would vary.
* Passengers: up to 5 including the possibility of carrying 3 passengers plus their gear in the prone position for evacuations.
* Incorporate a Modular Multiple Payload system that is able to meet the needs of one or several of the mission sets put forth in the design brief.
* Location to carry supplies both inside and/ or on the exterior of the vehicle. The Maximum Payload is: 1200 lbs (544kg)
* Maximum Towing capacity: 4000 lbs (1,814kg)

Engineering Guidelines:

* Vehicle should be highly mobile. Keep the side rails high.
* Visibility is key: This vehicle should have the ability to have visibility like a control tower. This would help a Tactical Air Liaison Officer (TALO) help communicate with and see incoming aircraft.
* Some place from where the vehicle can be defended if necessary
* Easy ingress and egress for the driver and co driver
* Best survivability possible for the occupants - Diver and co-driver locations cannot be changed, however the vehicle could be wider, and packs could be mounted on the outside-- every centimeter of distance from the exterior of the vehicle to the passenger increases the chances of survivability.
* Potential location for 360 degree, horizon to horizon protection.

Deliverables:

* To Note: The XC2V Challenge Ignition kit will be released on Friday, February 3rd at 12:00h est (UTC-05:00h)
Your Deliverables are what you submit to Local Motors. Before hitting the final submit button, please double check that you have met all of the Engineering requirements, and have incorporated the following onto your design board:

* Must incorporate the following orthographic package illustrations:
- Profile view
- Front/Rear / Combo view
- Top (half or full)

(You may use the 3D CAD Data to help you generate these images, or use the provided chassis package and draw your vehicle body over top of these. To keep it to scale, you may use the DesignPackage.PDF file included in the ignition kit). Your entry will not be accepted if you modify the chassis wheelbase, or track width in any way.
* Must incorporate Oscar provided in ignition kit, to show scale and packaging.
* 3 Design views: Front 3/4, Rear 3/4, one of your choosing.
* Multiple design boards will be accepted for this competition. (Up to 10 design boards)
Make sure that your design boards are no larger than 2000 px wide.
* Please Label all functions and design additions on all boards.
* Please make sure you include your Name on all boards.

Prizes:

1st Place $7500 plus your design turned into a functioning concept vehicle.
2nd. Place: $1500
3rd Place: $1000
 
The news release:
Oshkosh Defense, a division of Oshkosh Corporation (NYSE:OSK), today unveiled its prototype for Canada’s Tactical Armoured Patrol Vehicle (TAPV) program, as well as the company’s plans to work with its subsidiary, London Machinery, Inc. (LMI), to leverage that company’s new facility in London, Ontario, in pursuit of Canadian Department of National Defence (DND) vehicle programs.

LMI, the leading manufacturer of concrete mixer trucks in London, Ontario, provides local advanced manufacturing capabilities and a highly skilled workforce to the Oshkosh Defense and General Dynamics Land Systems-Canada team’s bids for the TAPV and Medium Support Vehicle System (MSVS) programs.

“Our team has thoughtfully reviewed draft RFPs for the TAPV and MSVS programs, and we are aligning our operations to DND requirements for highly-protected vehicles and long-term maintenance and support for the vehicles,” said Andy Hove, Oshkosh Corporation executive vice president and president, Oshkosh Defense. “Our plans will deliver significant value to DND by leveraging proven technology and support capabilities while providing industrial and regional benefits to contribute to the Canadian economy.” ....
Company pix attached.
 
http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/canada/archives/2011/06/20110601-191112.html

OTTAWA -- As Canada's troops prepare to come home from Afghanistan with their battered kit, the federal government is moving ahead with plans to buy the army a whole new fleet of armoured vehicles.
One of the contenders for the Canadian Forces' new tactical armoured patrol vehicles was on display at a defence industry trade show here Wednesday.

Textron's TAPV, a descendant of the U.S. army's ASV M11-17, is a four-man mean-looking four-by-four machine that is built to withstand IED blasts and can reach speeds of 100 km/h. Company officials describe it as a workhorse.

"It's a very, very tested vehicle. We've been developing this vehicle for five years, and we've blown up a lot of them. That's the only way you know it's safe," said Textron's Neil Rutter, adding thousands of the older U.S. variant have been used in Iraq and Afghanistan. "We know that this vehicle can equal it (the U.S. variant) and probably surpass it for reliability."

Textron is one of six companies short-listed to submit bids to the government in August.
 
Is it just me or does Textron's vehicle look a little "Russian" like. Seems to be it would add complication on AFV recognition but I am no expert on that.


I just recognize the front end as common Russian shape.
 
SevenSixTwo said:
Is it just me or does Textron's vehicle look a little "Russian" like. Seems to be it would add complication on AFV recognition but I am no expert on that.


I just recognize the front end as common Russian shape.

And what do you think of the German Fuchs, or the French VAB?
 
I was hoping for a modern version  of this
IMG_1578.jpg
 
George Wallace said:
And what do you think of the German Fuchs, or the French VAB?

Very surprised, but at the same time the Fuchs and VAB can move in water (justification in shape?). Looks like the hull of a BRDM.

I am assuming the Textatron vehicle doesn't go in water?



Maybe, it's just me but I think it's a little silly shaping AFV's that look similar to Russian AFV's unless the design is fundamentally necessary and an advantage (Probably why the T-50 and J-20 look so much like the F-22).
 
SevenSixTwo said:
s unless the design is fundamentally necessary and an advantage

So you have already made the assumption that it was not ?
 
SevenSixTwo said:
Very surprised, but at the same time the Fuchs and VAB can move in water (justification in shape?). Looks like the hull of a BRDM.

I am assuming the Textatron vehicle doesn't go in water?



Maybe, it's just me but I think it's a little silly shaping AFV's that look similar to Russian AFV's unless the design is fundamentally necessary and an advantage (Probably why the T-50 and J-20 look so much like the F-22).

Like in dissipating a mine blast?
 
Most of the Americans who were using the MATV overseas seemed to like it. It's not a troop carrier, and it's not a fighting vehicle. The only real use I saw for it was as a super-armoured humvee. Definitely had better off road capability than the RG-31s and Cougars.
 
Grizzly said:
You're in luck then Colin. The RG-35 being offered by BAE is the intended replacement for the Ratel, and it is similar in appearance. It comes in 6x6 and the 4x4 RPU version.
I like the idea of a vehicle that comes in 6x6 and 4x4 configurations.  That is about the only way that I can see one vehicle type replacing everything from G-Wagon through RG31 and Bison.
 
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