Sudan 2023 Thread- Discussion on Our Evacuation Capabilities

Ottawa deploys rapid deployment team to Djibouti to provide emergency response
The Canadian Press · Posted: Apr 21, 2023 11:10 PM EDT | Last Updated: April 21

Minister of Foreign Affairs Mélanie Joly, pictured in Ottawa last month, says the Canadian Embassy in Sudan's capital, Khartoum, has temporarily suspended in-person operations due to security concerns. (Justin Tang/The Canadian Press)

The federal government says it has deployed members of its Global Affairs Standing Rapid Deployment Team to Djibouti due to the volatile and rapidly deteriorating situation in Sudan.

Foreign Affairs Minister Mélanie Joly said the Canadian Embassy in Sudan's capital, Khartoum, has temporarily suspended in-person operations.

The Rapid Deployment Team can provide emergency response, co-ordination, consular assistance and logistical support, she said.

The federal government says the Department of National Defence and the Canadian Armed Forces are also planning for contingencies but gave no further details.

Roughly 1,500 Canadians registered in Sudan
On Thursday, Joly said Canada has no means of evacuating citizens from Sudan, where violence has drastically escalated between the country's army and its rival paramilitary force.

Global Affairs Canada has said it knows of roughly 1,500 Canadians registered as being in the northeast African country.

"The situation in Sudan is volatile and deteriorating rapidly," Joly said in a news release on Friday. "Canada continues to call for an end to violence and stands with the Sudanese people as they strive for peace.

"We are actively monitoring the situation in Sudan and working with neighbouring countries, as well as with like-minded governments and the international community to co-ordinate the response to this crisis."

Smoke fills the sky in Khartoum on Friday. Joly said Canada has no means of evacuating citizens from Sudan, where violence has drastically escalated between the country's army and its rival paramilitary force. (Maheen S./The Associated Press)

Joly said consular services remain available to Canadians in Sudan, but due to the security situation, these could be limited.

Officials in Ottawa are in regular contact with Canadians there, providing them with information and advice as the situation develops, she said.

The United States and other countries anticipate the violence to escalate and have been preparing to evacuate their citizens in Sudan.

Some of the heaviest fighting has been over airports.

The Pentagon has moved a small number of troops to a base in Djibouti to support an evacuation.

Gen. Mark Milley, chair of the U.S. joint chiefs of staff, discussed the situation with defence officials from Germany, Italy and Canada at a gathering in Germany on Friday, a U.S. official said.

One topic was ensuring that any potential evacuation efforts did not conflict. The official spoke on condition of anonymity to describe the deliberations.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/sudan-unrest-volatile-joly-1.6819292

 

[Czech_pivo]

This is one thing many people miss. There has been lots of press on problems in the military but our foreign service is just as ignored, underfunded and understaffed.

True story - I was sitting on the patio with the CDN Ambassador (Alain Dudoit) and a few staff members at his official residence in Prague sometime in June 1996 when during the meeting we saw a man climb over the 1.5m brick wall at the far end of the gardens. This fellow looked over at us when he straighten up and then just started walking across the garden to the opposite end and then jumped/climbed over that wall and was gone. It all happened in less than 3-4mins. I remember the Ambassador looking over to us and saying, "I've tried asking him before not to do this but he says it's the fastest route to the streetcar down the road." Stop and think about this - some random guy had been on a regular basis jumping the wall and gaining access to the CDN Ambassador's official residence and the Ambassador himself confronted the guy and asked him, politely I assume, not to do this anymore and the guy ignored him and kept doing it.....That was that state of the security in Prague at his official residence in the summer of 1996.

 

[GK .Dundas]

Apparently we're going to deploy about 250 personnel. Does anyone know when the last Liberal party caucus took place?
My best guess is that some member of parliament asked an embarrassing question of someone sitting at the big people's table (cabinet members ).
My one concern is the a company is just large enough to get into trouble but too small to get out of it. Fortunately there seems to be a sufficient quantity of Allied Forces already there. So that shouldn't really be a problem .

 

[daftandbarmy]

Apparently we're going to deploy about 250 personnel. Does anyone know when the last Liberal party caucus took place?
My best guess is that some member of parliament asked an embarrassing question of someone sitting at the big people's table (cabinet members ).
My one concern is the a company is just large enough to get into trouble but too small to get out of it. Fortunately there seems to be a sufficient quantity of Allied Forces already there. So that shouldn't really be a problem .

We used to practise these types of operations all the time as it was/ still is the bread and butter of UK's Airborne Brigade.

I was always amazed at the ability of so many things to go wrong, all at once, largely related to being in remote and third world style locations opposing any number of unknown bad guys, with wide varieties of kit and equipment, and local allegiances.

A clapped out old T-62 is still King of the Castle if you're relying on Shanks' Pony

When Western forces head into failed states (or 'go through the looking glass' as we used to say) to rescue their nationals anything can happen. Which is what you need to be resourced, trained and prepared for, of course.

E.g.,

Battle of Kolwezi - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[medicineman]

Apparently we're going to deploy about 250 personnel. Does anyone know when the last Liberal party caucus took place?
My best guess is that some member of parliament asked an embarrassing question of someone sitting at the big people's table (cabinet members ).
My one concern is the a company is just large enough to get into trouble but too small to get out of it. Fortunately there seems to be a sufficient quantity of Allied Forces already there. So that shouldn't really be a problem .

I wonder how many of those 250 will be actual shooters and not part of an oversized HQ...

 

[KevinB]

I wonder how many of those 250 will be actual shooters and not part of an oversized HQ...

Well isn’t that the typically actual manning level for a LIB these days?

 

[medicineman]

OP HALO had a LAV coy, an NSE and what seemed to be an entire J-Staff...

 

[medicineman]

Oh and a flight of Griffins

 

[medicineman]

And eventually a short lived advanced surgical centre.

 

[NavyHopeful]

And eventually a short lived advanced surgical centre.

MV ASTERIX has a hospital wing onboard, complete with X-Ray, Trauma Surgery, and a Ward that can house 5-7 patients at a time. So, in the event of a medical emergency, there’s a place they can go.

 

[daftandbarmy]

And eventually a short lived advanced surgical centre.

Which kind of suggests that a hefty BGp, or a Bde, is probably the right sized organization for these kinds of operations...

 

[medicineman]

Which kind of suggests that a hefty BGp, or a Bde, is probably the right sized organization for these kinds of operations...

Or a decent sized task force commanded from a floating platform or two perhaps...

 

[Booter]

Good news.after using the Uks flights today- I saw that we re planning to explore flights etc. So we re just a few days away from a quick reaction.

 

[GK .Dundas]

I note that Germans have deployed an Airborne unit complete with light armor ( Wiesels). That at least provides an both an antitank and anti technical capability.

 

[Fabius]

Canadian government was warned for weeks that Sudan conflict was coming: sources - National | Globalnews.ca

This article points to several systematic issues for Canada writ large NOT just the CAF.

1. Failures to understand and integrate strategic intelligence and information into timely decision making.

2. Holding of Authorities at the PM and Cabinet level for even propositioning of forces.

3. Lack of forward staged forces and actual high readiness joint forces. Note CJOC has no HR joint forces of its own that it can move around as a reserve unlike US. Combat Comds (J Staff don’t count as a reserve) This is a large issue but actually the least problematic of the three.

 

[daftandbarmy]

I note that Germans have deployed an Airborne unit complete with light armor ( Wiesels). That at least provides an both an antitank and anti technical capability.

We had Scimitar, which was excellent.

Air portable, fast, armoured and armed 'enough', with great comms and night vision.

They were also small enough to be able to traverse the dodgy infrastructure (roads and bridges) of the typical 3rd world country - or that was the rationale so I was told.

I doubt we could have secured an airfield footprint, or run convoys through dodgy areas, very effectively without them.

 

[GK .Dundas]

I suspect that in spite of various shades of government , that when they the political side of things find then in front of cameras with that deer in headlights look about them. There always somebody or somebodies on the non political side who not at all surprised.
In fact I suspect that their greatest frustration is that simply nobody listens.

 

[Booter]

I imagine they receive lots of intel that doesn’t spill over- so it’s generally successful to ignore things because most of the time it doesn’t come to a boil.

I have a question. My own experience with some operational stuff that when I build a risk assessment card- almost happens on an annual basis- I am continually frustrated that these almost annual emergencies are treated like no one could have predicted it,

Solutions like propositioning supplies and logistic lines- groups that communicate, are always thrown away- so inevitably the next time it comes around we do something hasty and act like we couldn’t know,

I would have thought- that evacuating Canadians from countries would have a standing contingency that you could dust off with one or two phone calls,

There would be planning etc- but that seems like a thing we should expect to use often enough that we should have such a thing- and that thing is more likely to be used than some of the capabilities we do invest in.

Do we not keep a real “high readiness” group? Like one we can fire off and not something we call high readiness or rapid response that actually can’t be moved

 

[Good2Golf]

I imagine they receive lots of intel that doesn’t spill over- so it’s generally successful to ignore things because most of the time it doesn’t come to a boil.

This Government apparently has an issue with appreciating what the intelligence sources provide it…

 

[GK .Dundas]

Some of our people were green with envy watching Brit light Cav in the former Yugoslavia. In particular in mountains during winter.
Something along the lines of, " If I can have a Scorpion turret. Why can't I have the rest of the vehicle"?

 

[Booter]

This Government apparently has an issue with appreciating what the intelligence sources provide it…

Oh I agree. They money cannon social issues that they think get votes- and real issues are cross your fingers and act surprised.