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Sports in the CF, or rather lack thereof.

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fischer10 said:
Thanks for the fast reply Apollo :)

Just my opinion (not worth anything)....Soldiers don't need it for the battle field in many ways we fight. But, it does build confidence and of course is fun and good way to stay in shape/muscle activation of the over all body. Clearly the ability to enroll yourself in an off-base program is sufficient enough with current fighting styles.

NOW, training people to use a Katana or other sword would clearly be the way to go! :D haha, just jokes (though, it would be awesome to be a pro at using a Katana), more time spent on fire arm accuracy and vehicle skills would be better :)

Martial arts are awesome.  It's very physically demanding.  Spar for 5 minutes in BJJ and you'll see what I mean.  It's a great way to learn how to fight, help with fitness, strength your body and flexability. 
It's better done on your own time thats all.  The army isn't exactly about vehicle skills and firearms accuracy compared to being "pro" at a Katana but you'll learn all about that.

Task,
WARNING the following is purely speculation and not necessarily fact:
I think ONE of the reasons some of our members are fat is that when people in the past organized PT they turned them into high intensity death sessions (hurting members). These sessions left a fowl taste for PT in some

I think you have a valid point here. 
 
4815162342 said:
I respectfully disagree.

Mixed Martial Arts is statistically speaking the least dangerous combative sport in the world. (proven by several commissions; references avail. if needed.)

Regardless though, I find you may have missed the point BigGoals was trying to make, which is, Self Defense, Militant Combatives Programs, Close Counter Hand to Hand Combat, Grappling, and tactical applications of submission holds etc, are imperative in the well roundedness of a soldier say in the Russian Militia where they drill Sambo Grappling like it was religion, or in the US Army where they have been doing the Gracie Jiu-jitsu Armed Combatives Courses for the last 4 years now and previous types of martial arts as well.

After commenting on the above, maybe you can answer this: do you think the implementation of a rigorous Martial Arts program that teaches everything from the right way to throw a Round House Kick through to how to subdue and submit an opponent, be  well invested in addition to the Canadian Soldier? how much do you agree/dis?

The first point is true.  In Western Boxing or Kickboxing, it's pretty much all blows to the head and midsection, esp the former.  In MMA, fights can begin and end with very little striking involved.

I do Muay Thai at an MMA/BJJ/Thaiboxing school in Ottawa.  (See OAMA.CA)  Its owner is a Gracie BJJ blackbelt,a TJJ blackbelt under Therein and has taught JTF-2, Pathfinders, etc in self-defence, combatitves, et al. 

The US Army indeed has something called a Combatives Tourney, based on its unarmed combat.  It sounds like hell, but sure seems fun. 
http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=us+army+combatives+tournament&meta=&aq=5&aqi=g10&aql=&oq=Us+Army+comba&gs_rfai=

The USMC have their own MMA curriculum, MCMAP, as well. 




My view?  ABSOLUTELY,  Boxing, Kickboxing/MT, BJJ, MMA should be made CF sports.  It would be awesome to compete in the CF/NATO.  As PT they are OUTSTANDING form of Cardio, good for flexibility, good for strength training.  Try it, and you will be sucking wind in no time.  Most of the cats I train with are fitter than many soldiers I have met......

Yes, even MMA and BJJ have their risks of injury, but so do running, so does hockey even without the fistfights.  Football and Rugby would be awesome.  Sadly, I will only ever be able to do martial arts on my own time. 

Would soldiers benefit from it in terms of practical use, well of course. 
- MPs, as policemen would benefit greatly from practicing martial arts such as Boxing, Judo, BJJ et al since cops can find themselves in a fistfight, or find themselves arresting an unwilling suspect, etc 
- The same is true for anyone involved with Search & Detain, or anyone doing any kind of security-related work in theatre.  I am sure if you get an unruly and violent detainee in a good Judo-esque joint-lock, they would cooperate fast.... 
- Again, my school has had instructors contracted to teach BJJ/TJJ techniques to Pathfinder course candidates.  I think many combat troops could benefit from it.  Infantry especially, same with anyone else who winds up fighting beside them.

We need to remember, ofc, the winner of each fight, is whoever's buddy shows up with the gun first. ;)

 
Tango18A said:
Well hopefully once the deployments to TFA cease the Army can begin to become competitive in regional sports again. I know it would be a welcome outlet.

Yeah, that whole "doing the job you train for and are paid for" really gets in the way of the important things.
 
Yes vice hearing you can't play any sports for the Mens Xmas dinner due to being on Op reserve.
 
Tango18A said:
Yes vice hearing you can't play any sports for the Mens Xmas dinner due to being on Op reserve.

You can probably blame Broom-a-loo casualty rates for decisions like that.

 
I just want to go back to the excuse/argument of the 35-40yr old moms who are troops not wanting to get beat up doing Combatives training. 

1. Its the military...you're bound to get beat up, muddy/dirty whatever sometime, suck it up.
2. What happened to the concept of soldier/rifleman first, where we are not supposed to define ourselves by our trade FIRST. Hence we are supposed to be Warriors in essence, some controlled aggression training would do us some good, as well as being good for our PT.
3. Hell I don't like having my knees hurt like someone swung a bat, and limping because of all the running we do...but hey guess what I HAVE TO.

So if ever the CF smartened up and instituted some combatives training, troops who don't want to do said PT...can pull pin.


Other point I have is I don't think Coy or Regimental or whatever teams should be exempt from unit PT, to go train with whatever team they are on, for the pure simple fact that its UNIT PT, its there to build esprit de corps, familiarity with your peers.  Really also its just a huge pain in the butt, that all the pers who can't find some team in the CF, because of lack of diversity, end up doing all the training on their own time, and money.
 
"What's wrong with that? I love duck and goose.

Sorry, I couldn't resist...

P.s.: it's foul"

TimBit
Hah! In my defence I only had one coffee when I wrote it. On second thought I may have wrote it wrong now as well :)

On another note... How do you quote someone from another page ie page 1?
 
Task said:
"What's wrong with that? I love duck and goose.

Sorry, I couldn't resist...

P.s.: it's foul"

TimBit
Hah! In my defence I only had one coffee when I wrote it. On second thought I may have wrote it wrong now as well :)

On another note... How do you quote someone from another page ie page 1?

You co to the comment and "quote" is in the top right of the post :)

Back to Sports:

Since you have to enroll in an off-base MMA, how much time do you get to do such things? I'm not even through basic yet (lol), just curious :)
 
fischer10 said:
Since you have to enroll in an off-base MMA, how much time do you get to do such things? I'm not even through basic yet (lol), just curious :)

When you're not on course, away on a tasking, on operational deployment, or undergoing any other training that requires more that a "normal" workday, you can generally expect your day to run between 0700 and 1700.  It may start later some days or in some jobs, it may end earlier or run later some times. When you are in your home garrison and none of the above factors apply, your evenings and weekends are your own.

 
I cant wait to be in (~50 more days till BMQ)! Sounds like my first year is going to be busy busy! No time for extracurricular activities :(
 
Martial arts is taught as a part of the pathfinder course?



Biggoals2bdone said:
I just want to go back to the excuse/argument of the 35-40yr old moms who are troops not wanting to get beat up doing Combatives training. 

1. Its the military...you're bound to get beat up, muddy/dirty whatever sometime, suck it up.
Uh huh
2. What happened to the concept of soldier/rifleman first
In that case that allocated time would be better spent improving weapons drills and fitness. (more fitness than gained from martial arts)
where we are not supposed to define ourselves by our trade FIRST. Hence we are supposed to be Warriors in essence, some controlled aggression training would do us some good, as well as being good for our PT.
In our perfect world you'll take a BOR full of clerks throw them some weapons and they'll stack up and clean rooms with the best of them. They'll bench their own body weight and fight off gurkia's with a knife.   
The state of our military will just not support that type of program/mentality. We need to fix other problems first. (MIR commandos, people exempt from PT)
The states can pull it off because right from day 1 in boot camp physical fitness is paramopunt. They can kick you out for being out of shape pretty easily down there.
3. Hell I don't like having my knees hurt like someone swung a bat, and limping because of all the running we do...but hey guess what I HAVE TO.
You choose to.
So if ever the CF smartened up and instituted some combatives training, troops who don't want to do said PT...can pull pin.
We can hardly get soldiers deploying onto ranges to do shooting.  A CF wide combatives program would never work.
We can't even train all the recruits we have in basic training and their primary trade. Where are you going to find all these qualified instructors? Money for all the saftey equipment?  How do we agree on what to teach?  You see how long it takes to make any decision in the CF.  What's the criteria? The CF won't be wowed by throwing gracie around (get it? ha).  What's the chances of us adopting something totally crap?  You'd "have" to do it..

Other point I have is I don't think Coy or Regimental or whatever teams should be exempt from unit PT, to go train with whatever team they are on, for the pure simple fact that its UNIT PT, its there to build esprit de corps, familiarity with your peers.  Really also its just a huge pain in the butt, that all the pers who can't find some team in the CF, because of lack of diversity, end up doing all the training on their own time, and money.
What if you're a hardcore BJJ MMA type guy and the CF decides they want a combatives program that's basically Taekwondo, Aikido or Karate?
Are you going to goto you're daily morning taekwondo class then goto your own BJJ at night?

The idea is cool but it won't work yet thats all.
 
"We can hardly get soldiers deploying onto ranges to do shooting. "

Really??? How can you not want to shoot things?!?! (As you can see I come from the country lol...)
 
3. Hell I don't like having my knees hurt like someone swung a bat, and limping because of all the running we do...but hey guess what I HAVE TO.
You choose to

I'm curious as to how I chose to have my knees hurt that bad...or how I chose what the CSM decides for PT....
 
fischer10 said:
"We can hardly get soldiers deploying onto ranges to do shooting. "

Really??? How can you not want to shoot things?!?! (As you can see I come from the country lol...)

he means it rarely happens, not that nobody wants to.
 
Apollo Diomedes said:
Martial arts is taught as a part of the pathfinder course?
I don't know if it is taught each time since, but they've done it before.  At one of my school's locations there are two pictures of our head BJJ instructor/president and one of our Brown-belts posing with course students.  One picture has all their faces cropped.  One of the pictures might be JTF2 students, we have  a plaque from JTF2 thanking them for teaching things.  There is also a letter from some Capt representing the Pathfinder school thanking them. 

http://www.oama.ca/pat.php

Yes, it's impossible to do this for every soldier we have.  Do we not have some unarmed combat course?  I think infantry, MPs can get it?
 
Just an FYI if your looking for a good sport with great cardio and a strong physical aspect check out the Upper Ottawa Valley "Lumberjacks" Rugby Club. U
Its run out of Pet, its brand new and I am sure they are always looking for more players...
 
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