Soldiers squander disability payouts

[Nemo888]

Nah, not the type to belly ache. A real soldier. (unlike me) I don't even think she'll do the paperwork for the snow shoveling. She has her pride. She knows when someone is trying to shuffle her out the door. I don't  know if she appealed or not, but I could never see her doing it.

If she did I doubt her appeal would get her any more. I think personally 20% is the nightmare payout. It's just a bad knee right. Throw some metal in there and you are good as new. Your life is screwed but you are not totally crippled. You can't really work or live pain free. Your are basically about as able as a 70 year old, but before you were an elite athlete. VAC doesn't seem to get this.

Though the doc giving me my exam for VAC did. He started crying at the end. I didn't know why till later. Not a great system unless you are a bean counter on the hill.

 

[OldSolduer]

Nah, not the type to belly ache. A real soldier. (unlike me) I don't even think she'll do the paperwork for the snow shoveling. She has her pride. She knows when someone is trying to shuffle her out the door. I don't  know if she appealed or not, but I could never see her doing it.

If she did I doubt her appeal would get her any more. I think personally 20% is the nightmare payout. It's just a bad knee right. Throw some metal in there and you are good as new. Your life is screwed but you are not totally crippled. You can't really work or live pain free. Your are basically about as able as a 70 year old, but before you were an elite athlete. VAC doesn't seem to get this.

Though the doc giving me my exam for VAC did. He started crying at the end. I didn't know why till later. Not a great system unless you are a bean counter on the hill.

Encourage your friend to appeal. And help with the paper work for the snow shovelling.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Nah, not the type to belly ache. A real soldier. (unlike me) I don't even think she'll do the paperwork for the snow shoveling. She has her pride. She knows when someone is trying to shuffle her out the door.

Speaking as a taxpayer, and someone who appreciates the service rendered and sacrifices made by all CF members, if elements of the system are making her (or others) feel like an inconvenience, this is f***ed up.  This.  Is.  Wrong.

 

[Rifleman62]

Yeah, It's wrong. What can anyone due about it? The Minister stated:

absolutely no need to revisit lump-sum payments and he’s opposed to providing soldiers with options.

So much for the VAC review of the New Veterans Charter that has been supposedly going on and was to take at least a year.

Is it still called situating the estimate?

 

[Sprinting Thistle]

Minister Blackburn holds a degree in administration and has been a businessman all of his life.  He is a manager and administrator and has no connection with the military nor an understanding of the environment.  Perhaps its' time to put someone in the job that actually understands what military members endure. 

 

[armychick2009]

This doesn't have much to do with the last few replies but - with the original message....

I watched this program last week about millionaires and how this one guy won $3 million. He was only in his early thirties. He didn't think it would be enough to retire on, etc. but he still wanted to enjoy life a bit.

They (his accountant) ended up giving him about $100 000  and called it "Mad Money".... use this money to buy whatever you want, do whatever you want, vacation as much as you want... and the rest became monthly salary and investments. Obviously $250-some thousand dollars, isn't enough to retire on. Out of that, so what if you spend $40 000 on a truck? Part of that money is to make you feel better about life again, to try and make best of a bad situation. If driving around in a new $40 000 truck that will last you 10 years, makes you feel good, then do it! I wouldn't call that squandering -- I call that taking back some of the life you lost. As someone who lived with constant pain several years ago (it's gone now, thank God!) the small settlement I got was nothing for the pain I had endured. In fact, it barely covered the cost of the extra living expenses incurred because of the injury.  I'm so grateful I was fortunate enough to recover but- for most of these veterans, they won't be able to.

So, maybe they need a bit of 'mad money' to get the things they really want to feel good... let them decide, let them begin to feel like they have some form of control in their life.

 

[Brasidas]

So, maybe they need a bit of 'mad money' to get the things they really want to feel good... let them decide, let them begin to feel like they have some form of control in their life.

And if losing a leg nets you a $50k lump sum or losing a hand gets you $25k, what would you suggest that they can afford to burn? There's not really money to spare in terms of setting themselves up.

 

[blacktriangle]

IMO, if someone sacrifices that much for the country, we should be able to afford to give them a lump sum at the start PLUS a pension for the rest of their lives. That would allow them to spend some "mad money" while still having a guaranteed income later on in life.

This type of stuff needs to be sorted out while the CF is still at the forefront with Afghanistan etc, otherwise good luck getting anything changed a decade from now. Memories fade fast in this country.

Edited to add: We waste a lot of money on stupid things in this country...so it's not like we can't afford it.

 

[Future Pensioner]

I am no math wizard, so I hope someone on the forum can help me illustrate a point.

Let's say that a person were to receive a 25% disability assessment from VAC, is 35 years old, married with one child.

Under the "old" system, the person currently would receive $827.26 per month tax free award for the rest of their life according to the 2010 rates.

Under the new system, the person would receive a one time, lump sum award of $69, 019.93.

The math help I need is this:  how long would the person be able to draw a $827.26 tax free monthly payment (indexed by 2% per year) until the $69, 019.93 had been depleted (or drop below the set monthly payment), assuming that the lump sum was invested safely at 7% compound interest annually  (I believe this to be a reasonable interest rate for a "safe" investment - but I am not financial wizard either).

I can pretty well guess at the answer, but I would like to see the actual numbers.  And this example does not even take into account the amount of money their spouse would receive if the person were to die before their spouse while receiving the "old payment" method..

Can anyone assist?

 

[Occam]

Using the calculator at http://au.pfinance.yahoo.com/calculators/savings-plan-simulator.html, if you start with nothing, and make $827 deposits monthly with a 7% interest rate, you will have $66,345 after 5.5 years - completely disregarding the indexing factor.

 

[SeanNewman]

IMO, if someone sacrifices that much for the country, we should be able to afford to give them a lump sum at the start PLUS a pension for the rest of their lives.

Nobody is going to disagree with you that there's no way you can repay someone who has given up that much, but the sad part is that there are now so many wounded vets (likely well over 1,000) that the country really would go broke.

We are I believe the only military as it is that spends over half the budget on personnel-related costs (pay, moves, benefits, etc).

 

[Future Pensioner]

And another point to consider:

Under the old system, if you were awarded a disability pension, your monthly award was backdated to the day you applied.  Therefore if it took VAC 10 months to decide your case, you would get 10 months of payments in one lump sum, plus still get your monthly award, indexed annually, until you die, at which time our spouse is entitled to a survivors pension.  And, if you appeal the decision and your appeal is successful, your award is adjusted and back dated to the date of your application ( in most cases to a maximum of 36 months - could be longer in certain circumstances).  This "adjusted amount" would have resulted in a lump sum "retro" payment paid to you once the decision paperwork has been processed.

Under the new system, if it takes VAC 10 months to settle our claim, your lump sum award is paid out at that time - no such thing as a "retro" amount back dated to the date of application.  And, if you appeal and are successful, you award will be increased by the amount they determine on the date of the decision, again - no retro amounts.

 

[Brasidas]

I am no math wizard, so I hope someone on the forum can help me illustrate a point.

Let's say that a person were to receive a 25% disability assessment from VAC, is 35 years old, married with one child.

Under the "old" system, the person currently would receive $827.26 per month tax free award for the rest of their life according to the 2010 rates.

Under the new system, the person would receive a one time, lump sum award of $69, 019.93.

The math help I need is this:  how long would the person be able to draw a $827.26 tax free monthly payment (indexed by 2% per year) until the $69, 019.93 had been depleted (or drop below the set monthly payment), assuming that the lump sum was invested safely at 7% compound interest annually  (I believe this to be a reasonable interest rate for a "safe" investment - but I am not financial wizard either).

I can pretty well guess at the answer, but I would like to see the actual numbers.  And this example does not even take into account the amount of money their spouse would receive if the person were to die before their spouse while receiving the "old payment" method..

Can anyone assist?

I made up a quick spreadsheet, and the money ran out before 9.5 years. I can send the spreadsheet to your e-mail address if you wish.

 

[Future Pensioner]

Using the calculator at http://au.pfinance.yahoo.com/calculators/savings-plan-simulator.html, if you start with nothing, and make $827 deposits monthly with a 7% interest rate, you will have $66,345 after 5.5 years - completely disregarding the indexing factor.

Thanks Occam, but not quite what I was looking for.  I would like to know how long the money from the "new system" would last if it were to be invested safely and still provide the individual with an equivalent monthly pension under the old system.  If I am reading the 'folks" properly, this is what is suggested that soldiers should be doing with the "lump sum" and thus "they" would consider that the new system is just as "good" as the old system.

 

[57Chevy]

A whole lot of questions being asked......not very many answers.
I recently received this through my email. It may not answer too many questions, but
it will give you an idea of what is happening regarding the New Veterans Charter:

For Immediate Release
June 21, 2010

Robert Oliphant, M.P. Calls on the Government to
Enact Committee Recommendations on the New Veterans Charter

OTTAWA – Robert Oliphant, Member of Parliament for Don Valley West and Official Opposition Critic for Veterans Affairs, called on the Conservative Government to support the recommendations put forward by the Standing Committee on Veterans Affairs in a report tabled in the House of Commons.

The committee spent the past seven months studying and reviewing the New Veterans Charter, hearing from a variety of witnesses, and learning about the challenges Canadian veterans continually face when dealing with the Charter.  The report, tabled on Thursday, June 17, 2010, provides a summary of the testimony provided by various government officials (Veterans Affairs and National Defence), veteran’s organizations, medical experts and individual veterans.  The report makes 21 recommendations to the government, indicating how Veterans Affairs Canada can improve the New Veterans Charter, and thus provide greatly improved services for our Veterans.

“The testimony provided to our committee made clear that the New Veterans Charter was failing Canadian veterans,” Oliphant said.  “After four years of inaction on this file, I want to encourage the government to support our recommendations based on months of hearings and make the significant amendments to the Charter that have long overdue.”

The New Veterans Charter, which was developed and passed under the previous Liberal government late in 2005, was designed to allow the minister to correct flaws in the Charter as they emerge, update it to react to changing circumstances, and ensure that the programs and services offered to veterans reflect their emerging needs. Furthermore, the Charter gives significant powers to the Minister to make adjustments without having to come back to Parliament for approval. 

“This comprehensive review is further evidence of how this parliament can be productive when Members of Parliament are able to work together to accomplish common goals.” Oliphant Concluded

Contact:

Office of Robert Oliphant, MP: 613-992-2855

Link to the Report:  http://www2.parl.gc.ca/Content/HOC/Committee/403/ACVA/Reports/RP4634723/403_ACVA_Rpt01_PDF/403_ACVA_Rpt01-e.pdf

 

[armychick2009]

And if losing a leg nets you a $50k lump sum or losing a hand gets you $25k, what would you suggest that they can afford to burn? There's not really money to spare in terms of setting themselves up.

Oh, I understand that. I had to pay almost $35K in retraining myself and only received $4000 after leaving a $55 000 a year job...  there is no "ideal" amount of money. It's not easy coming back from injury and no amount of money is ever "enough" to recover whatever it was, that was lost.

 

[Occam]

Thanks Occam, but not quite what I was looking for.  I would like to know how long the money from the "new system" would last if it were to be invested safely and still provide the individual with an equivalent monthly pension under the old system.  If I am reading the 'folks" properly, this is what is suggested that soldiers should be doing with the "lump sum" and thus "they" would consider that the new system is just as "good" as the old system.

Ah, I got you now.  You want to deposit the lump sum and draw an annuity from it - and want to know how long the money would hold out.

 

[Future Pensioner]

I made up a quick spreadsheet, and the money ran out before 9.5 years. I can send the spreadsheet to your e-mail address if you wish.

Thanks Brasidas!

I must say that 9.5 year was even less that I would have guessed.  I was thinkin that it would last at least until the person was 60 years old (ie 25 years) - I wasn't even close!!!

So, I guess people can draw there own conclusions, but for me - WOW what a difference, considering that a individual could reasonably be expected to live until the age of 75!

 

[blacktriangle]

We are I believe the only military as it is that spends over half the budget on personnel-related costs (pay, moves, benefits, etc).

Maybe it's not how much we spend on pers...but how little we spend on everything else.  ;D

(Yes I realize we are very well paid)

 

[dogger1936]

I got friends who were injured in yugo making 1000 plus dollars a month in non combat related injuries. I.E ballhockey. I got friends severly injured in IED's who got 25,000 $. Throw in the young guys blowing their 20,000 or 50,000 is smoke and mirrors. Fact is getting injured in the past was a great deal better than getting inured today.

Being permantly injured for the rest of your life is worth nil. When your legs are bolted together with metal rods...they are FIXED!!! Thus even though its just as well you did lose em...they are still attached to your body..thus you get bugger all for em.

Wanna hear what 26,000 is worth? PM me and I'll send you a list of medical problems....which has been appealed and denied.

The new system is very flawed...again as for young guys coming home and blowing their money....what else are you gonna get for 26,000 as a single guy? A down payment on a house you wont be able to afford once you get released?