Second Language Training ( SLT )
- Thread starter Ralph
- Start date
SeaKingTacco said:
Actually, even in Quebec, pilot business is done in english. I work in Bagotville as a weapons controller, and all the briefs/debriefs/missions, etc. are in english. There are a couple francophone pilots, but they speak english all day long, except if they're talking to other francophones.
- Reaction score
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- Points
- 430
Read what Sea KingTacco has to say :
"So how do we ensure that all of those who absolutely need language trg, of any kind, get it, when they need it, and then don't end up with skills fade? Let's be honest here- a francophone who has learned English at CF expense does not have to work very hard to maintain it- 8 million francos live on a continent with 250 million anglos. It is a touch more difficult (but not impossible) maintaining your french profile, if you spend your career in Esquimalt. Or Wainwright. Or Moose Jaw. My suggestion is that, we have tried career advancement as the carrot and that has not worked well. Maybe we should try bilingualism bonuses in the CF. You get bilingual (french or english, farsi, arabic, pashtun, mandarin, etc, etc) either through a inservice course or on your own time."
plus the reference below and you get a purely pragmatic decision by NDHQ
http://www.forces.gc.ca/hr/dol/docs/pdf/OL_Transformation_Model_e.pdf
"So how do we ensure that all of those who absolutely need language trg, of any kind, get it, when they need it, and then don't end up with skills fade? Let's be honest here- a francophone who has learned English at CF expense does not have to work very hard to maintain it- 8 million francos live on a continent with 250 million anglos. It is a touch more difficult (but not impossible) maintaining your french profile, if you spend your career in Esquimalt. Or Wainwright. Or Moose Jaw. My suggestion is that, we have tried career advancement as the carrot and that has not worked well. Maybe we should try bilingualism bonuses in the CF. You get bilingual (french or english, farsi, arabic, pashtun, mandarin, etc, etc) either through a inservice course or on your own time."
plus the reference below and you get a purely pragmatic decision by NDHQ
http://www.forces.gc.ca/hr/dol/docs/pdf/OL_Transformation_Model_e.pdf
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MCG said:
I stand corrected. Would this be more of an exception than the rule? Or is there a large segment of the officer corps with no SLT?
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Baden Guy- excellent find!
x-zipperhead- the vast majority of Regular Force Officers have at least some second language trg. They either got it at RMC, during summer at St Jean, or immediately following BOTC. Some have more trg, having attended block courses or year-long courses.
x-zipperhead- the vast majority of Regular Force Officers have at least some second language trg. They either got it at RMC, during summer at St Jean, or immediately following BOTC. Some have more trg, having attended block courses or year-long courses.
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Read the documentation from the ADM(HR) site.
It helped with my insomnia, and also gives a translucent (not especially clear) picture of the demographics involved.
Again I fall back to the Edmonton based MCpl Wrench bender, who would make Sgt Rock look like Beetle Bailey, but can't move beyond that level because SLT has never been within his grasp, for he has been deployed on 4 operational tours, 3 brigade exercises and left to train 14 QL4 crafties on his own as his peers are either on category, retirement slump or are Franco and trying to learn English. deeeeeep breath. Just saw the Ron James show and can only dream of such becoming the master of poetry as is he.
(This ain't my situation, as I am an EO Tech in Shilo, love my job and will continue to strive for my third banana knowing that I WILL get it through merit, hard work and profesional competence (and hopefully attrition ;D)
It helped with my insomnia, and also gives a translucent (not especially clear) picture of the demographics involved.
Again I fall back to the Edmonton based MCpl Wrench bender, who would make Sgt Rock look like Beetle Bailey, but can't move beyond that level because SLT has never been within his grasp, for he has been deployed on 4 operational tours, 3 brigade exercises and left to train 14 QL4 crafties on his own as his peers are either on category, retirement slump or are Franco and trying to learn English. deeeeeep breath. Just saw the Ron James show and can only dream of such becoming the master of poetry as is he.
(This ain't my situation, as I am an EO Tech in Shilo, love my job and will continue to strive for my third banana knowing that I WILL get it through merit, hard work and profesional competence (and hopefully attrition ;D)
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SeaKingTacco said:
Thanks SeaKingTacco. That's kind of what I thought but wanted to stay in my lane.
Baden Guy, that is a good find. Lot's of good info. I did notice my eyes start to glaze over after a few pages though ;D. After skimming the rest I found a key paragraph that I find to be quite pertinent to this thread (merit boards and second language" points")
"Para 54. End-to-End Review of CF Human Resources Policies and Processes
e. Revision of CF Merit Board Second Language Ability Scores Policies regarding the awarding of Second Language Ability Scores in the CF merit and promotion process must be rewritten to reinforce the priorities established in the Official Languages Program Transformation Model. For example, scoring should be weighted at the rank levels targeted by the leadership-related requirements. Higher scores may be awarded for bilingualism in service oriented occupations in which second language ability forms an integral part of the career profile, or for individuals serving in bilingual functions. The public Service recently began considering bilingual ability to be a "core competency" demanded of employees serving in bilingual positions, and a similar approach should be considered by the CF. It is critical that the number of points awarded for bilingualism be allocated so as not to place at a disadvantage those military members who have not been given the opportunity to become bilingual (or who are serving in unilingual functions). For individual who do not serve in bilingual functions or occupations, potential points related to linguistic ability may be allocated as an element related potential, in a manner similar to the way in which post-secondary education is considered;"
How are the points for Second Language Ability awarded at present? If not potential is it under performance?
Let's just consider those individuals, for a moment , who are not in "service oriented occupations" or in bilingual positions. That is to say members performing in positions where bilingualism is not a "core competency". This document seems to recognize the fact that you are placing those individuals at a career disadvantage by awarding points for linguistic ability even where Second Language Ability is not a requirement and the member has not been given the opportunity or training to become bilingual. It seems the suggested solution is to award the points under "potential" rather than whatever the current practice is (?). I don't see how this would level the playing field at all. I fail to see how awarding extra points (wherever you allocate them) for a skill that is not taught, nor opportunity given to learn, can do anything but put the member at a career disadvantage. At the same time, if a promotion would see that person move into a bilingual position, it would be difficult to argue that their Second Language Ability should not form part of their potential.
A
aesop081
Guest
x-zipperhead said:
As per our career manager brief this afternoon
60 points Performance
38 points potential
2 points language
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cdnaviator said:
Thanks. So you had the Career Mangler out there today, eh? You getting posted to St. Jean next year because of a lack of bilingual AES Ops to fill the billet? ;D just kidding. Don't lose it on me.
PPCLI Guy said:
Not sure I follow you. Are you saying that people get extra points on their PER for getting posted? If so, I've never heard of that. Points for employment and courses taken I believe would fall under "performance". I don't see how any of these things relate to Language points.
A
aesop081
Guest
x-zipperhead said:
My friend thats not funny....not even as a joke ;D.....few people are posted, PM me if you want to know but i'm sure its going to make the RUMINT circuit soon. I didnt take an interview with him because i dont want him to know my name or my face.
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cdnaviator said:
I'm just pulling your chain. Actually, I'm pretty sure you're safe . That billet was filled by an FE from here this year. I hear ya about the interview, I didn't bother last year for the same reason.
A
aesop081
Guest
Again, speaking of our glorious CM.......
You get points for a language profile that is 5 years old or less. If your profile is older than that, you get nadda. The only way around the 5 year limit is if you have EEE as your profile.
You get points for a language profile that is 5 years old or less. If your profile is older than that, you get nadda. The only way around the 5 year limit is if you have EEE as your profile.
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It's all the same to this unilingual slob 
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Pain in the ass? What about you learn something new and guess what, you are paid for it...
Max
Max
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Max,
It is not really wise to take that tone with Master Warrant Officers (notwithstanding that there really is no rank of Army.ca), especially as a 2LT.
Secondly, I have taken the year-long course and, while I did learn a valuable second language, the course really is a pain in the @ss- there is no sugar coating that part.
It is not really wise to take that tone with Master Warrant Officers (notwithstanding that there really is no rank of Army.ca), especially as a 2LT.
Secondly, I have taken the year-long course and, while I did learn a valuable second language, the course really is a pain in the @ss- there is no sugar coating that part.
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Max, I have 23 Years in ( with lots to more to go), all my postings in BC, Ontario, Germany, and New Brunswick, tours in Kuwait, Croatia , Bosnia X3 and one in Afghanistan. I've never needed french, and because my french peers will never leave 5 RGC, I will never be posted there.SupersonicMax said:
The army pays me to be a Combat Engineer. Period. The pain in the A** comment is my opinion, and I'm sure shared by many Anglo's, but I can only speak for myself. Last point , if I need advise WRT my career progression, I'll talk to my CM, and BTW if you are truly concerned, he tells me I am doing just fine. Thanks for the concern, but stick to your lane.
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